The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same class

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

no silly.....EVERYONE knows it's ARMAND HAMMER....

Hammertime!

Regards,
Chris

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is not trolling. I am going to use an assortment of facts and figures that show that while Brady may clearly be the best of the era, he is not as far ahead of Ben Roethlisberger as many around here seem to think.

Let's start with the bottom line - Brady has 4 Super Bowl appearances in 11 seasons, with 3 wins. Ben has 3 SB appearances in 7 seasons with 2 wins, albeit with one of those wins coming by way of a subpar performance by Ben individually. However, Ben does have the most impressive game winning TD drive of the two men, with one of the most impressive in the history of the game in SB 43. Brady obviously contributed significantly to all 3 of the Pat's SB wins.

To summarize:

Super Bowl appearances per season:

Ben = 3 in 7 years, Brady = 4 in 11 years. We can call that even.

Super Bowl wins:

Ben 2 in 3 appearances, Brady 3 in 4. In spite of Ben's impressive drive in SB 43, his weak showing in his first SB appearance gives Tom the edge in this category. Both men have lost a Super Bowl.

Moving on, here are the career win/loss records for these two men:

Ben:

Reg season: 74-31 (.705)

Post season: 10-3 (.769)

Brady:

Reg season: 16-33 (.779)

Post season: 14-5 (.737)


Here again, both men have impressive winning percentages, with Brady taking the regular season, and Ben having the edge in the post season. We can call this one a draw too.

As far as individual statistics go, clearly Brady has the loftier numbers and overall recoreds, but Roethlisberger also holds records for QB rating and completion percentage by a rookie. He also went 13-0 during the regular season his rookie year, an impressive feat by anyone's standards and record that will probably never be broken.

Ben has a career rating of 92.7, while Brady is at 95.6. Slight edge to Brady although both rank within the top list of all time QB ratings.

However, Ben does hold a significant advantage over Brady in terms of career yards per attempt. Brady = 7.5, Ben = 8.1. Compare Roethlisberger's career YPA of 8.1 to Brett Favre, a man who many here seem to compare Ben to because of his "gunslinger" mentality. Favre only averaged 7.1 YPA in his career. This should put a rest to the talk of Ben being a wild man with no smarts who just throws the ball around.

Overall, give a slight edge to Brady in the stats department, but again, Roethlisberger's stats are much better than many realize or give him credit for.

Let's not also forget that Ben has more 4th quarter and overtime game winning drives in the NFL since 2004, even more than Brady. Although Brady has obviously shown his clutch ability throughout his career as well. Both men give their teams a great chance to win when the chips are down. Let's give a draw in the clutch department.

Hopefully I have shown here that in spite of these two having very different styles, Ben Roethlisberger can and should be considered to be in the same "class" as Tom Brady or any other top QB in the league, with Brady slightly ahead for now. Ten or fifteen years from now, we will be able to look at each man's complete body of work and see who is on top!

Next time Roethlisberger wins an MVP (let alone a unanimous one), throws for 50 TD passes, or has a 9-1 TD-INT ratio, let me know.

The Steelers' defense is old. It's not unlike what happened to the Pats' D post-2004, when Tedy, Law, and Rodney were both diminished by stroke/injury, and McGinest was gone. Ben will drag this Steelers team into the playoffs and lose, just like Brady did, and all of a sudden the tune re: Roethlisberger's playoff success will change, just like it did with Brady. This is practically guaranteed, it's like clockwork.

Once that's all happened, maybe people will finally stop acting like Roethlisberger is even remotely in Brady's class (although only the most biased of Steelers homers even tries to make that argument anymore). He is top 5 among quarterbacks playing right now, whereas Brady is a top 5 quarterback of all time. The inability to recognize the difference is what some would call Eli Manning syndrome.

 

[Kontradiction]

Really? We're having this thread?

 

[PatsFan24]

This is not trolling. I am going to use an assortment of facts and figures that show that while Brady may clearly be the best of the era, he is not as far ahead of Ben Roethlisberger as many around here seem to think.

Let's start with the bottom line - Brady has 4 Super Bowl appearances in 11 seasons, with 3 wins. Ben has 3 SB appearances in 7 seasons with 2 wins, albeit with one of those wins coming by way of a subpar performance by Ben individually. However, Ben does have the most impressive game winning TD drive of the two men, with one of the most impressive in the history of the game in SB 43. Brady obviously contributed significantly to all 3 of the Pat's SB wins.

To summarize:

Super Bowl appearances per season:

Ben = 3 in 7 years, Brady = 4 in 11 years. We can call that even.

Super Bowl wins:

Ben 2 in 3 appearances, Brady 3 in 4. In spite of Ben's impressive drive in SB 43, his weak showing in his first SB appearance gives Tom the edge in this category. Both men have lost a Super Bowl.

Moving on, here are the career win/loss records for these two men:

Ben:

Reg season: 74-31 (.705)

Post season: 10-3 (.769)

Brady:

Reg season: 16-33 (.779)

Post season: 14-5 (.737)


Here again, both men have impressive winning percentages, with Brady taking the regular season, and Ben having the edge in the post season. We can call this one a draw too.

As far as individual statistics go, clearly Brady has the loftier numbers and overall recoreds, but Roethlisberger also holds records for QB rating and completion percentage by a rookie. He also went 13-0 during the regular season his rookie year, an impressive feat by anyone's standards and record that will probably never be broken.

Ben has a career rating of 92.7, while Brady is at 95.6. Slight edge to Brady although both rank within the top list of all time QB ratings.

However, Ben does hold a significant advantage over Brady in terms of career yards per attempt. Brady = 7.5, Ben = 8.1. Compare Roethlisberger's career YPA of 8.1 to Brett Favre, a man who many here seem to compare Ben to because of his "gunslinger" mentality. Favre only averaged 7.1 YPA in his career. This should put a rest to the talk of Ben being a wild man with no smarts who just throws the ball around.

Overall, give a slight edge to Brady in the stats department, but again, Roethlisberger's stats are much better than many realize or give him credit for.

Let's not also forget that Ben has more 4th quarter and overtime game winning drives in the NFL since 2004, even more than Brady. Although Brady has obviously shown his clutch ability throughout his career as well. Both men give their teams a great chance to win when the chips are down. Let's give a draw in the clutch department.

Hopefully I have shown here that in spite of these two having very different styles, Ben Roethlisberger can and should be considered to be in the same "class" as Tom Brady or any other top QB in the league, with Brady slightly ahead for now. Ten or fifteen years from now, we will be able to look at each man's complete body of work and see who is on top!

SB MVPs

Brady 2

Ben 0

League MVPs

Brady 2

Ben 0

see a trend?

Also Brady has been the much better QB when the teams have gone head to head. His team wins more. His numbers are better even though the Steelers have the better defense.

BTW the best drive ever was a year earlier by Eli Manning and the Giants. They did it against an unbeaten Patriots team. The Steelers did it against Arizona who was 9-7 that year.

 

[tests]

brady is > ben and its not even close.

 

[PatsDeb]

LOL. It's always good to start your day with a good laugh. Thanks Gatekeeper!!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

women assaulted in bathrooms?
We have a winner!

Don't forget the all important "Shoving Kids out of the way when they ask for autographs." He's ahead there too!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

One game, everything at stake. 32 NFL coaches will pick Brady if they can, including Tomlin.

Yes, they aren't even close in polls among players when it comes to whom you'd want to build a team around. It's some version of Brady and P. Manning at the top with everyone else an afterthought.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I will not totally crap on you OP, I am willing to give Ben some credit for his play on the field, since that is what we are talking about here.

His off the field stuff speaks for itself.

That drive to win the SB, and that throw to Holmes, who I despise more than dirt, was pinpoint accurate.

However the 'in the same class' verbiage gets people stirring around here. Rightfully so. I think, and many other think I am sure, that Brady is in a class of football skill, intelligence and drive by himself.

The players voted him number 1 for a reason.

You are making your case on stats, and our head coach has a little something to say on stats.

I am looking at the big picture.

For me, the only one that comes close to Brady is Rodgers. The rest are in 'the class' below....

 

[Uncle Rico]

You know, it's funny: I can't imagine anyone ever starting a thread arguing that Brady should be considered "in the same class" as Roethlisberger. I think that says a lot.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Rapethisburger doesn't come close.

Brady has better everything. Like aforementioned, Roth had a very dominant defense for much of his career and when he had bad games, his defense was always there to bail him out.

Of most of his Superbowl appearances, his QB ratings were very terrible.

Rodgers, Brees, P. Manning, maybe E. Manning, Rivers, Vick, M. Ryan, maybe Fitzpatrick, Schuab are all better than him IMO.

 

[BradyManny]

This thread is dumber than Ben Roethsliberger.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This is not trolling. ...while Brady may clearly be the best of the era, he is not as far ahead of Ben Roethlisberger as many around here seem to think.

...However, Ben does have the most impressive game winning TD drive of the two men, with one of the most impressive in the history of the game in SB 43. Brady obviously contributed significantly to all 3 of the Pat's SB wins.

To summarize:

Super Bowl appearances per season:

Ben = 3 in 7 years, Brady = 4 in 11 years. We can call that even.

Super Bowl wins:

Ben 2 in 3 appearances, Brady 3 in 4. In spite of Ben's impressive drive in SB 43, his weak showing in his first SB appearance gives Tom the edge in this category. Both men have lost a Super Bowl.

...

Overall, give a slight edge to Brady in the stats department, but again, Roethlisberger's stats are much better than many realize or give him credit for.

...

Hopefully I have shown here that in spite of these two having very different styles, Ben Roethlisberger can and should be considered to be in the same "class" as Tom Brady or any other top QB in the league, with Brady slightly ahead for now. Ten or fifteen years from now, we will be able to look at each man's complete body of work and see who is on top!

OK. I took a couple of obvious shots at Ben's character, but here's what I think football-wise.

You leave out Brady's drive to put them in FG position in SB XXXVI...you remember...it's the drive he started on his own 17 with no timeouts left and about 1:20 left on the clock...the drive where John Madden said the Pats should play for OT and then concluded that "What Tom Brady just did gives me goosebumps" after he methodically took the Patriots 55 yards. It "only" led to an FG, but you really can't overlook it.

As for the rest, you admit that Big Ben didn't show up for one of the two SB's and I'll give you the drive he led against the Cardinals, which concluded with a great catch. Brady has been SVP MVP 2x...Ben never was honored with that award. That's "a difference of night and day" material for me.

We can argue until the cows come home about regular season stats, but, in the regular season the reality is clear: Brady owns the major records and the League MVP score is 2--0. Really, nothing more to say there.

So, no, he's not in the "same class" as Brady (P. Manning is the only active player who is in that "class" and Aaron Rodgers is making a strong case...and both have real "class" as well...Drew Brees as well). And we can't ignore the fact that Big Ben is "class challenged" on multiple fronts.

The bottom line is if each suffers a career-ending injury in Sunday's game ("God forbid" on both counts! I don't wish that on any player or opponent), Brady is a first ballot, first year HOFer. Roethlisberger probably goes in eventually, but the voters will make him wait three to five years before they give it to him because of his off-field issues...it was rape but they didn't prosecute because they didn't have enough evidence and there is really no serious debate about that outside of Steeler Nation.

Thanks for the polite attitude. But you are wrong.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

This is not trolling. I am going to use an assortment of facts and figures that show that while Brady may clearly be the best of the era, he is not as far ahead of Ben Roethlisberger as many around here seem to think.

Let's start with the bottom line - Brady has 4 Super Bowl appearances in 11 seasons, with 3 wins. Ben has 3 SB appearances in 7 seasons with 2 wins, albeit with one of those wins coming by way of a subpar performance by Ben individually. However, Ben does have the most impressive game winning TD drive of the two men, with one of the most impressive in the history of the game in SB 43. Brady obviously contributed significantly to all 3 of the Pat's SB wins.

To summarize:

Super Bowl appearances per season:

Ben = 3 in 7 years, Brady = 4 in 11 years. We can call that even.

Super Bowl wins:

Ben 2 in 3 appearances, Brady 3 in 4. In spite of Ben's impressive drive in SB 43, his weak showing in his first SB appearance gives Tom the edge in this category. Both men have lost a Super Bowl.

Moving on, here are the career win/loss records for these two men:

Ben:

Reg season: 74-31 (.705)

Post season: 10-3 (.769)

Brady:

Reg season: 16-33 (.779)

Post season: 14-5 (.737)


Here again, both men have impressive winning percentages, with Brady taking the regular season, and Ben having the edge in the post season. We can call this one a draw too.

As far as individual statistics go, clearly Brady has the loftier numbers and overall recoreds, but Roethlisberger also holds records for QB rating and completion percentage by a rookie. He also went 13-0 during the regular season his rookie year, an impressive feat by anyone's standards and record that will probably never be broken.

Ben has a career rating of 92.7, while Brady is at 95.6. Slight edge to Brady although both rank within the top list of all time QB ratings.

However, Ben does hold a significant advantage over Brady in terms of career yards per attempt. Brady = 7.5, Ben = 8.1. Compare Roethlisberger's career YPA of 8.1 to Brett Favre, a man who many here seem to compare Ben to because of his "gunslinger" mentality. Favre only averaged 7.1 YPA in his career. This should put a rest to the talk of Ben being a wild man with no smarts who just throws the ball around.

Overall, give a slight edge to Brady in the stats department, but again, Roethlisberger's stats are much better than many realize or give him credit for.

Let's not also forget that Ben has more 4th quarter and overtime game winning drives in the NFL since 2004, even more than Brady. Although Brady has obviously shown his clutch ability throughout his career as well. Both men give their teams a great chance to win when the chips are down. Let's give a draw in the clutch department.

Hopefully I have shown here that in spite of these two having very different styles, Ben Roethlisberger can and should be considered to be in the same "class" as Tom Brady or any other top QB in the league, with Brady slightly ahead for now. Ten or fifteen years from now, we will be able to look at each man's complete body of work and see who is on top!

The real measurement should be performance against elite teams.

 

[Kid~Brady]

The real measurement should be performance against elite teams.

Hey, Hey.... Steelers just beat the Cardinals!

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

If Eli Manning thinks he's in the same class as Brady, though he's a whole lot more closer than Ben, then there's nothing wrong with Steelers fans trying to convince themselves that Ben is in the same class.

As you can tell from looking at Eli's face, something is clearly off.

I refuse to even argue something that's straight up obvious to Steelers' fans as well. I'm around them 24-7 and even they're glad the Steelers didn't face Brady in the playoffs last year. They know how it would've went down. They would trade that rapist for Brady any day and with that defense Brady would have about 6 rings on his finger now, maybe more.

 

[WhiZa]

SB MVPs

Brady 2

Ben 0

League MVPs

Brady 2

Ben 0

see a trend?

Also Brady has been the much better QB when the teams have gone head to head. His team wins more. His numbers are better even though the Steelers have the better defense.

BTW the best drive ever was a year earlier by Eli Manning and the Giants. They did it against an unbeaten Patriots team. The Steelers did it against Arizona who was 9-7 that year.

Exactly why you should never compare players using a team statistic

 

[Guts]

What was the Pats record the year Brady missed with a knee injury? 11-5, did you see Matt Cassell stats that year? Proving its Bellichicks system thats creating the "great Brady". His phyiscal skill set is just above Average, however he's mastered that dink and dunk offense of Bellicicks...

Belichick was also 5-11 his first Pats season then 0-2 beginning the 2000 season and once Brady stepped in the rest is history. Cassel inherited the greatest team ever a win away from 19-0. Going 16-0 to 11-5 with almost the same personell is a 5 game drop off. He had Moss, Welker and a reliable veteran defense to back him up. Cassel also had years learning under Brady and if I'm not mistaken he made the pro bowl with KC. Brady is just important as Belichick.

 

[Deus Irae]

What was the Pats record the year Brady missed with a knee injury? 11-5, did you see Matt Cassell stats that year? Proving its Bellichicks system thats creating the "great Brady". His phyiscal skill set is just above Average, however he's mastered that dink and dunk offense of Bellicicks...

Try not to come at us with the usual stupidities.

1.) 2007 was obviously not a dink and dunk offense, so Brady's clearly 'mastered' more than one type of offense. That, along with his HOF numbers would lead to the obvious conclusion that:

2.) Not only is Brady far more than "just above Average", but that he's got HOF skills. He has, in fact, one the farthest toss skills competition in the past, he's one of the most accurate passers in NFL history, he reads defenses as well as anyone who's ever played the position, and he moves in the pocket the way Marino did in his prime.


In other words, you're full of it. Troll better.

 

[BradyManny]

What was the Pats record the year Brady missed with a knee injury? 11-5, did you see Matt Cassell stats that year? Proving its Bellichicks system thats creating the "great Brady". His phyiscal skill set is just above Average, however he's mastered that dink and dunk offense of Bellicicks...

Matt Cassel has been to as many Pro Bowls as Roethlisberger, FYI. And that was as a Kansas City Chief, not a New England Patriot.

I give Belichick for the credit for the success for that 2008 season for setting the tone, and coaching up that defense - but it's a discredit to Cassel to think he had nothing to do with it.