The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same class

[StainlessStill]

Oh, and SB clutch victories are another stat, oh wait, Brady leads that 2 to 1.

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

 

[NinjaZX6R]

 

[BradyManny]

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

And if it wasn't for Santonio Holmes in 2008 and great defense and horrible officiating in 2005, Ben Roethlisberger would literally be known as the worst quarterback in Super Bowl history.

He does own the worst single QB rating of all time in a Super Bowl.

Furthermore - it's not as if the Patriots lose those Super Bowls if not for Vinateiri, in both cases, it goes to overtime.

And on the flip side, you could say if not for the worst defensive collapse in the waning moments of a SB until Arizona matched the feat, Brady would have 4 SBs, 3 SB MVPs, and a perfect season.

So playing the ifs and buts game is rather silly, and not going to work out in your favor anyway.

Off the top of my head, I can say Brady has led 4 drives in Super Bowls to take the lead in the fourth quarter of a game. Or more specifically, in the last 5 minutes of a Super Bowl. That's 4 potential game winning drives in 4 Super Bowl appearances.

In two of those instances, his team was behind, just as Ben was in his drive vs. Arizona - and in both cases, he answered with a Touchdown. In the other two, the team was tied.

The defense blew two of those leads, and he gained one of them back. But you aren't going to be able to match Brady's clutchness in SBs based on one drive Big Ben had against one of the worst defenses ever to be in a Super Bowl.

You can harp on that Ben drive - but it's truly semantics - Brady essentially did the same exact thing against Carolina in SB 38 (down 22-21 with 6 minutes left), and in SB 42 only to see the defense yield the lead he had just earned them.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

If it wasn't for some bad officiating and a few blown plays by the Patriots defense against the Giants, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 4 just as quickly.





Seriously, your trolling sucks. Try finding some material we haven't already seen hundreds of times.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

And if it wasn't for the dominant Steelers defense to mask the worst QB performance by a winning QB in Super Bowl history, Roethlisberger would only have one ring. Against Seattle, he completed 42.9% of his passes for 123 yards, 0 TDs (he did have one rushing TD which was questionable if he really got in), and 2 INTs. Antwain Randel El had more TD passes in that game than Roethlisberger.

As for Vinatieri, you do realize that in the Super Bowl against the Panthers, he missed two easy field goals and kicked off the muffed kickoff right before halftime which allowed the Panthers to kick a field goal with only 20 or seconds in the half. Vinatieri makes one of those field goals or doesn't screw up the kick off before the half, the Pats win the game without a last second field goal.

Also, why are we discounting Brady leading two last second scoring drives to win two Super Bowls. The fact of the matter is all the Pats needed were 3 points to win. Against Arizona in the Super Bowl, the Steelers were down by 3 points. Kicking a field goal would send it to overtime. They had to at least try for a TD. Against the Rams and Carolina, the scores were tied. The Pats didn't need a TD to win the game.

So if you want to take away two Super Bowls from Brady, you certainly have to take away one from Roethlisberger. Brady never played as bad a Super Bowl as Roethlisberger did in his first Super Bowl.

 

[Simkin]

before than drive versus arizona,he was 22 rating in the SB OVERALL. I mean, wtf.

 

[TheComeback]

Super Bowl appearances per season:

Ben = 3 in 7 years, Brady = 4 in 11 years. We can call that even.

To me, this said everything about the post I needed to know. You basically made up a stat that paints Ben in a more favorable light when compared to Brady. "Super Bowl appearances per season"? Wtf is that?

Let me fix it for you:

Ben - 3 Super Bowl Appearances, 2 wins
Brady - 4 SB Appearances, 3 wins, one of those appearances after a 16-0 reg. season

 

[Simkin]

And that was his good sb...against Seahawks no comments.And even with that drive the sb was subpar

 

[ginachen]

why steelers fans think roethlisberger is elite baffles me. In the biggest stage a nfl player can play in, he has thrown 5 interceptions in 3 super bowls. Tell me how does an elite QB do that?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

Steelers fans are people not bright enough to be Raiders fans.

Sheer idiocy on display.

Did the Harrison "pick 6" not count?

Had Brady played the Cardinals, the Patriots would have been up by about 4 TD's. Zero need for "heroics".

Also, if the league had cracked down of dirty hits (Kimo says, "thanks"), SB XLII is a non starter since the Steelers playing is about as realistic as unicorns.

The "heroics" are built on a 9-7 opponent with the absolute worst pass defense in NFL history.

Another way to look at this is if NFL officials were not allowed to throw Super Bowls, it would be Brady 3 R'berger 0.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Heck, even his own teammate thinks he is overrated and paid like an elite QB.

 

[Kid~Brady]

No matter what you mustard people think... you all know Brady owns your team. You hate him and he knows it.... he bullies your "dominant" defenses and throws it in your faces. I would hate the guy too... honestly

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I also love how these idiots focus on the TD vs FG thing.

Hey Dummy, the point is to win the game.

The FG's were designed to get the kicker on the field to win the game AT THE END. Ya don't need a TD to win.

The Stealers needed the TD AND THEY LEFT TIME ON THE CLOCK.

There is no dumber fanbase in the NFL.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Ok gatekeeper here is a very simple question for you and please try you best to not be a super homer on this one question.

You have one game to win who are you going to trust Ben or Tom.

I'll admit Ben has talent but look at the big game Brady Win or Lose plays the better game.

I don't like to play the what if game the facts are simple Brady plays better in the big games and in the big spots and that is what makes a Qb great

 

[Gatekeeper]

Ok gatekeeper here is a very simple question for you and please try you best to not be a super homer on this one question.

You have one game to win who are you going to trust Ben or Tom.

I'll admit Ben has talent but look at the big game Brady Win or Lose plays the better game.

I don't like to play the what if game the facts are simple Brady plays better in the big games and in the big spots and that is what makes a Qb great

Well, there are two answers to your question. First, I don't think it's fair to say Brady is better than Ben at getting it done in "big spots." Maybe big games overall.

So, if I had to take one guy to start one must win game, I would lean toward Brady.

But if youre talking about a 2 minute drive, down by 4, starting deep in your own territory, I go with Ben. I've seen him pull off too many houdini like miracles over the years. He has a unique ability to look lousy for 3 quarters and then magically turn it on in the end finds a way to get it done.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Your " elite" QB hasen't even gotten out of the 1st round of the playoffs since 2007 Going 0-3. Tell me how does an elite QB do that??

Joe Montana went one-and-done three straight years.

Per your logic he's not an elite QB either.

 

[Joker]

Your " elite" QB hasen't even gotten out of the 1st round of the playoffs since 2007 Going 0-3. Tell me how does an elite QB do that??

NFL Videos: Brady named 2010 NFL MVP

4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 rings,MVP as recently as LAST YEAR...tell me, who is YOUR idea of an elite quarterback?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

Trollboy, if we're going to do what ifs...I got a game in February 2008 that Brady should have won with a TD...

 

[Ron Sellers]

All Steeler fans know that Tom Brady is Mr. Regular season since 2004 and spygate. Yes he puts up great Regular season numbers but dissappears in the first round. Losses to inferior teams like Denver, Baltimore and the Jets. If it was'nt for his good looks he would be just another very good QB.

How come the Media doesn't rip your prettyboy Qb after these playoff failures??

Ah yes, the old faithful implication that spygate was the only reason the Patriots won any Super Bowls. Steeler Fan clings on that excuse like a newborn holding onto to his blanky sucking his thumb. If video taping from an unauthorized location was such a huge factor, why didn't the Pats go 19-0 every season? More importantly, if it played such a crucial role then why didn't the Pats bottom out the way other SB teams like the Rams, Bucs and Raiders did?


The biggest problem you and many others in this debate have is that you're assigning all credit and all blame to one player. Football is the ultimate team sport; that's why Trent Dilfer has a SB ring and Dan Marino does not.


Why are you so obsessed with his looks? How in the world does that have anything to do with his production on the field?


By the way, Brady has been plenty scrutinized and criticized for his recent playoff performances.