The Tom Brady playing now is better than the 07 version.

[MoLewisrocks]

The kind of player Tom is, it almost stands to reason he would be playing better now than he ever did. With maturity comes wisdom (or at least that's the way life should work...). Obviously it doesn't work that way for some posters. The teams he's played on since 2004 haven't gotten better in many respects in areas that ultimately mattered.

As long as he remains healthy I expect to see him become incrementally better until something physically causes his skills to begin to diminish. Hopefully his team is once again beginning to...

Barring injury, given the way he trains and conditions I don't anticipate that happening for at least 4-5 more years. And even then if the skill erosion is gradual he would project as an above or even well above average starter for probably another 2-3 years. I know some of you ADHD's here can hardly wait to turn the page so you can project our next HOF leader... Be careful what you wish for. Try enjoying the ride for a change.

And before you get to the Manning situation, believe if he can come back for another 3-4 years they will gladly absorb a disappointing 2011 and forego the Luck sweepstakes to build a better team around Manning for the final 4 and just focus more on drafting a higher ceiling backup and/or
identifying a viable veteran option and wait to roll the dice if needbe on a #1 to replace Manning in 4-5 years if it even turns out that's the road they again have to travel. Because they know from experience that even if you hit it on #1 it can take almost a decade for that to equate to a championship...if it ever does (a lesson Pats fans should have learned in the decade that preceded Brady's first...

 

[Nikolai]

Yeah, I'd put Rivers as a top five behind Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and then I say it's a tossup between him and Brees. The dude is pretty good.

The Steelers won one Super Bowl DESPITE their QB, and the defense was the showcase on that '08 team as well. But I won't knock him too hard. Not one QB escapes pressure as miraculously as he does. He's like the Dominik Hasek of the NFL; you have no idea how he does it, so you want to chalk it up to luck.

 

[Simkin]

Roethisberger had thw 2 worst superbowls by a quarterback EVER.

And was in route for a 3rd but then the Cardinals defense dissapeared. He was 22 .1 rating before that drive.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know that I'd say Brady's playing better. I'd probably just say that he's playing differently. We may never see a clearly better performance than we did in '07.

As for the current rankings:

Brady
Rodgers

separation

Manning

separation, followed by a group that's probably interchangeable in order

Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Ryan

Vick (He stays at 8 until this year shows how much of last year was a fluke)

separation, followed by a large group that can all be argued for



Just my $.02

 

[Rob0729]

I thought Brady's 2010 performance was one of the best single season performances by a QB in history if not the best. It was better than 2007. There are many reasons for this. As pointed out, Brady had an elite WR in Moss in 2007. Last year he had no legitimate #1 WR. Brady threw over 300 times last year without an INT which I find more impressive than the TD record myself. The Pats offense got better as it went along last year and worse in 2007.

People say his performance was better in the Super Bowl years because he was clutch. I argue that the team was clutch back then and Brady is carrying the team now (at least until this defense shows it is a good defense). Brady didn't have a great in the first Super Bowl until the final drive and it was the defense that kept the Pats in it so Brady could do the game winning TD. Last year vs. the Jets in the playoffs, the Pats defense let Sanchez and the running game have their way. Brady made his own mistakes and wasn't great, but he did have 300 yards. If the defense did their job, the Pats might have won.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Brady won playoff games in 07 too, and his team to the super bowl. Eli Manning and David Tyree had to pull off a miracle play to win that game. If Eli gets sacked on that play or if the pass is dropped, the Pats win and you would be talking about how 07 was Tom Brady's best season.

Agreed. 01-04 Pats would've stopped manning in the final drive and won the super bowl. 07-10 Pats dont/haven't

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'd argue that almost the reverse is true: he's putting up better stats now because he doesn't have Moss.

In 2009 and early 2010, it seemed that he was forcing a lot of passes Moss's way. After Moss left, Brady had to go looking for all of his options—and that opened up his game even further. Because there was no real go-to guy, everybody became a threat, which gives Brady more possibilities to exploit. Spread your defense thinner, and Brady finds your weak spots more easily. And so on.

He could be better off without the 2010 Moss. No QB is better off without the 2007 Moss, a historically great WR. 2007 Brady was the greatest QB of all time but I'd have to say I was more impressed by the 2010 Brady even counting the stats while Moss was here and period from the Baltimore game to the Cleveland game where our offense was in an adjustment phase and not yet clicking on all cylinders. A 36:4 TD:INT ratio is just unheard of and could've been 36:2 if Moss was shipped out earlier. Welker was also coming off the ACL injury last year which makes it all the more impressive than 2007 where Moss/Welker were 100% and at their absolute best.

 

[livinginthe past]

But Eli didn't get sacked and they lost. Like I said, they won playoff games and Championships (which were due to Brady in large part on his last minute drives). Maybe I should have added that little tidbit in my original post. Is Brady statistically better, the obvious answer is yes. However, I'd take the earlier Brady that was clutch over this Brady. Stats don't always tell the whole story. Yeah, he's putting up monster numbers and was the MVP, but Peyton has been doing that for years and the knock was always how he was a great regular season QB, but he could not win the big one. Even now that he has one, people say it's just one.

I'd take the less flashy (statistically) Brady any day of the week, as opposed to this Brady. Am I saying he's bad or terrible or any of that. NO! I'm just saying that using the term better can be a bit of a misnomer in this instance. He is statistically better, but I don't know if that means he is truly better.

Do you not count the TD drive that gave the Patriots the lead late in the 4th quarter of the 2007 SB as 'clutch'?

I do.

He was getting hit all day - and yet he still gave his team the lead late in the game in a low scoring game.

Because of the criticism that Peyton Manning has had about being 'anti-clutch' - people now equate Tom's Peyton-esque regular season numbers with a sudden lack of playoff success.

In truth, they are not related - at least I can't see a 'logical' reason why they should be other than people adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.

People are spoiled with the ridiculous early career success of Brady.

There is a definite lack of respect for Patriots opponents these days - they think only in terms of the Patriots losing and not opponents winning.

Alot of fans don't recognise the fact that; if it wasn't for underdogs beating up on the favorite in the playoffs then we wouldn't even have a Dynasty in the first place.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd argue that almost the reverse is true: he's putting up better stats now because he doesn't have Moss.

In 2009 and early 2010, it seemed that he was forcing a lot of passes Moss's way. After Moss left, Brady had to go looking for all of his options—and that opened up his game even further. Because there was no real go-to guy, everybody became a threat, which gives Brady more possibilities to exploit. Spread your defense thinner, and Brady finds your weak spots more easily. And so on.

Can we please stop the revisionist history. There was one game where he 'forced' the ball to Moss, and it wasn't even forcing because Moss was one on one all day with Cromartie. The fact that Moss tanked it that day created the forcing to Moss concept that didn't exist before. Look at Moss statlines. There were games where he did not get the ball because other teams took him away. Brady threw to Moss when the coverage dictated. You are remembering one game when it dictated throw to Moss, Moss gave poor effort and the results were bad so all of a sudden that meant Brady was forcing the ball to Moss. He threw to Welker a lot more than Moss, was he forcing it to him to.
Seriously this board is the worse Ive ever seen at creating a hysterical unsupported conclusion then treating it like fact.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The kind of player Tom is, it almost stands to reason he would be playing better now than he ever did. With maturity comes wisdom (or at least that's the way life should work...). Obviously it doesn't work that way for some posters. The teams he's played on since 2004 haven't gotten better in many respects in areas that ultimately mattered.

As long as he remains healthy I expect to see him become incrementally better until something physically causes his skills to begin to diminish. Hopefully his team is once again beginning to...

Barring injury, given the way he trains and conditions I don't anticipate that happening for at least 4-5 more years. And even then if the skill erosion is gradual he would project as an above or even well above average starter for probably another 2-3 years. I know some of you ADHD's here can hardly wait to turn the page so you can project our next HOF leader... Be careful what you wish for. Try enjoying the ride for a change.

And before you get to the Manning situation, believe if he can come back for another 3-4 years they will gladly absorb a disappointing 2011 and forego the Luck sweepstakes to build a better team around Manning for the final 4 and just focus more on drafting a higher ceiling backup and/or
identifying a viable veteran option and wait to roll the dice if needbe on a #1 to replace Manning in 4-5 years if it even turns out that's the road they again have to travel. Because they know from experience that even if you hit it on #1 it can take almost a decade for that to equate to a championship...if it ever does (a lesson Pats fans should have learned in the decade that preceded Brady's first...

Good points. The fanboi excitement over Mallett replacing Brady this summer was a new low for Patsfans. How someone who is a legit contender for GOAT can be disregarded by the impatient with short memory is a disgrace. Since they tend to be the same morons impressed with Fantasy stats, they're quiet at least since last week. Wait until the first Pats game that is a battle of defenses with under 200 yds passing for the 1st moronic post Brady thread to return.

 

[Ring 6]

You must be joking listing Philip Rivers at #6 behind Ben Roethlisberger. His 3 super bowl appearances are solely due to the fact that he's had a great defense to work with his entire career. Last season was a perfect example. He played terrible during the playoffs and yet the Steelers still made the super bowl because their defense got them over the hump.

If Philip Rivers had the Steelers defense, he would have won at least two rings by now as well. And, Rivers is currently the #2 QB in the league. Check the stats. Last year, he had the second best stats of any QB after Tom Brady and he did it without Vincent Jackson or Antonio Gates. Peyton Manning played much worse.

In 2009 he was the 2nd best QB as well, and in 2008 he was the #1 QB but he didn't get the MVP because the Chargers record was bad. Also how can you rank Michael Vick behind Tony Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Schaub? The way he's been playing these past two seasons he deserves to be ranked higher than those losers.

Statkistics accumulated in losses are devalued compared to statistics accumulated in wins.
You just dismissed that in 2 of the last 3 years the Chargers have drastically underperformed, and are trying to cover that with stats.
It doesnt take a great QB to accumulate numbers in a loss, it takes a great QB to win week in and week out regardless of numbers, rankings, etc.
By the way, where have the Chargers defenses ranked in Rivers years?

You can use defense as an excuse for Rivers not winning big games.

 

[BTTA]

All this talk about "stats don't matter, championships do" is just dumb. Stats make championships easier. Fantasy football drives up revenues; if you have good fantasy players on your team, your team will make more money, making it easier to spend more money on players (cash flow = bonuses), making it easier to win championships. Fantasy football is THE growing edge of the economics of the NFL, which is why the league is endorsing it so heavily and why Jonathan Kraft is overheard saying, "Brady will have great fantasy numbers" in the BB documentary.

 

[BTTA]

The Miami game was one of the most consistent QB surgeries I've ever seen, and if he performs like that most of the time this season, it will be his most impressive ever.

 

[Deus Irae]

All this talk about "stats don't matter, championships do" is just dumb. Stats make championships easier. Fantasy football drives up revenues; if you have good fantasy players on your team, your team will make more money, making it easier to spend more money on players (cash flow = bonuses), making it easier to win championships. Fantasy football is THE growing edge of the economics of the NFL, which is why the league is endorsing it so heavily and why Jonathan Kraft is overheard saying, "Brady will have great fantasy numbers" in the BB documentary.

The "stats don't matter" thing is a convenient misapplication of Belichick's comments. He wasn't saying that stats should be ignored, or anything of that sort. Hell, the Patriots are huge on stats.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Yeah, but I feel the 2001-04 Brady was better than both the 2007 and today Brady. Sorry, but that Brady was a lot more clutch and won playoff games . . . just saying.

I see your reasoning, but one often overlooked fact is that the Pats had a better defense than offense in those days.

 

[condon84]

Stats are great, but I'd rather have the Brady in 01-04 where he was clutch in big games.

Accumulating insane stats in the regular season but coming up short in the post season = Peyton Manning.

Hopefully Brady can buck the trend this year.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I think he had PTSD from the injury which is why he had a bad season after he came back. So, he wouldn't step into his throws or take the time needed for routes to develop because he was scared of getting hit, and who could blame him.

No one who has had that kind of injury wants it to happen to them again. But, he got over it eventually and now he's playing better than ever. Last season he played great as well.

I wasn't implying he had a bad 09 season. I don't think he had PTSD. No QB is gonna set the world on fire coming on a career threatenting injury. What I'm saying is since than he has risen his play back up to his standards, even beyond that (how many people saw last season happening) It really is incredible to see.



To any doctors/surgeons on this board, bless you

 

[PatsSox363804]

Brady
Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Rivers

In that order. I don't care how many rings Roethlisberger has he doesn't make the throws those 5 make.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I see your reasoning, but one often overlooked fact is that the Pats had a better defense than offense in those days.

Agree and this can't be stated enough. The 03 defense easily wins the Superbowl in 06 and 07 but they were all getting old/hurt by then. No way does Tyree catch that ball if 03 Ty Law and Rodney were in the secondary, it took Samuel making a lazy decision for that play to unfold.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Stats are great, but I'd rather have the Brady in 01-04 where he was clutch in big games.

Accumulating insane stats in the regular season but coming up short in the post season = Peyton Manning.

Hopefully Brady can buck the trend this year.

Brady choked last year? More like the O line.

IMO,
People have really forgotten Daniel Graham. Losing him was so underrated by us all.

Games where Freeney and other edge rushers have tortured Light make me long for the days when we'd have Graham to help throw a blocker on them. Perfect example was the MIA game. The second Wake started to break through on our rook we threw a blocker on him and he was neutralized. Daniel Graham used to have the same effect on the best pass rushers in the game. Hopefully with big Gronk that ability will be back.

It's not about Brady choking in the playoffs. We need to stop being so soft upfront getting beat. Same thing happened in 09, and it happened last year. Brady will look like **** again in this years playoffs (if we make it ) if the OL comes up soft again. Not trying to be Brady's mother but IJS.