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The Tom Brady playing now is better than the 07 version.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by glm, Sep 17, 2011.

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  1. glm

    glm Rookie

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    Here is Tom's statline in 2007 (reg season):

    578-398-4806-50-8
    8.315 YPA
    6.250 TD-Int Ratio
    117.2 PR

    In 2010, after getting rid of Randy Moss, the Patriots offense, and Tom Brady, struggled for a few games, until their game against Pittsburgh.

    Here is his statline from then till now (Including his playoff game):

    324-219-2890-28-2
    8.920 YPA
    14.000-1 TD-Int Ratio
    121.811
  2. dex13

    dex13 Rookie

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    2007 was an insane year. Before I go with he's playing better than 2007, I'll have to see a few more games of this season. Last season was last season.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  3. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    i heard this last year too, and i agreed, then your pats lost in the playoffs

    i think that goes to show just how tough it is to win it all......
  4. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    What he did last season with barely any talent was very impressive. Brady is clearly the best QB in the league right now. He's at the top of his game. Here's how I rank the top 10 QBs.

    1) Brady
    2) Rivers
    3) Peyton Manning
    4) Aaron Rodgers
    5) Drew Brees
    6) Michael Vick
    7) Ben Roethlisberger (although if he keeps playing badly I'll have to push him further down)
    8) Tony Romo
    9) Eli Manning
    10) Matt Schaub
  5. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    What people forget is going into that MNF game against the bills in 09 we were all wondering if he would ever be the same.
  6. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    I think he had PTSD from the injury which is why he had a bad season after he came back. So, he wouldn't step into his throws or take the time needed for routes to develop because he was scared of getting hit, and who could blame him.

    No one who has had that kind of injury wants it to happen to them again. But, he got over it eventually and now he's playing better than ever. Last season he played great as well.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  7. Mark12

    Mark12 Rookie

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    I don't think he is on his 2007 level. I don't think anyone in the history has been at that level. I just recently went to NFL.com and watched all the highlights from the 2007 season and my god, the throws he would make and everything. I recommend you guys to go and watch all the Tom Brady highlights.

    It just really got me thinking of what kind of numbers he would have had in 08. He was destined for another mega year. He would probably be in the top 5-10 in almost every passing category.
  8. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    He's more impressive now because he doesn't have Randy Moss anymore and he's still putting up great stats.
  9. Calciumee

    Calciumee PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG]
  10. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    LOL! I agree. After Roethlisberger, I just had to fill the list with a few more to make it a nice even 10. LOL! I think those two guys are garbage by the way. Even some of the new QBs already look like they'll be better than them, such as Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, and Cam Newton.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  11. ewg_gestalt

    ewg_gestalt Rookie

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    I'd argue that almost the reverse is true: he's putting up better stats now because he doesn't have Moss.

    In 2009 and early 2010, it seemed that he was forcing a lot of passes Moss's way. After Moss left, Brady had to go looking for all of his options—and that opened up his game even further. Because there was no real go-to guy, everybody became a threat, which gives Brady more possibilities to exploit. Spread your defense thinner, and Brady finds your weak spots more easily. And so on.
  12. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    Yes. Tom Brady seems to perform better without a big name receiver, since he likes to distribute the ball around to all his receivers, rather than to have to keep feeding the ball to a prima donna receiver even if said receiver is not open.

    That's why I don't think this Chad Johnson trade will benefit the Patriots very much. He's the 2nd most annoying receiver in the league after Terrell Owens. Imagine him pestering Tom Brady all season long to pass him the ball and how he'll celebrate whenever he gets a TD. Too much of a distraction for sure.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  13. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    Yeah, but I feel the 2001-04 Brady was better than both the 2007 and today Brady. Sorry, but that Brady was a lot more clutch and won playoff games . . . just saying.
  14. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    Brady won playoff games in 07 too, and his team to the super bowl. Eli Manning and David Tyree had to pull off a miracle play to win that game. If Eli gets sacked on that play or if the pass is dropped, the Pats win and you would be talking about how 07 was Tom Brady's best season.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  15. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    But Eli didn't get sacked and they lost. Like I said, they won playoff games and Championships (which were due to Brady in large part on his last minute drives). Maybe I should have added that little tidbit in my original post. Is Brady statistically better, the obvious answer is yes. However, I'd take the earlier Brady that was clutch over this Brady. Stats don't always tell the whole story. Yeah, he's putting up monster numbers and was the MVP, but Peyton has been doing that for years and the knock was always how he was a great regular season QB, but he could not win the big one. Even now that he has one, people say it's just one.

    I'd take the less flashy (statistically) Brady any day of the week, as opposed to this Brady. Am I saying he's bad or terrible or any of that. NO! I'm just saying that using the term better can be a bit of a misnomer in this instance. He is statistically better, but I don't know if that means he is truly better.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  16. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coming back from the injury was part of '09, but the Pats also faced a historically difficult slate of pass defenses. In fact, according to Football Outsiders' defense-adjusted rankings, Brady was *still* the best quarterback in the NFL in 2009 (not sure that I agree, but an impressive stat nonetheless). It's one of those things that typically gets overlooked when people are evaluating QBs- I know I'm guilty of it quite often.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  17. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    I don't care about stats or video game like numbers. I'd like to see more playoff wins and a SB win or two. The big games is where it counts and recently Brady hasn't played well. I'm hoping this year will be different.
  18. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    That's exactly what I'm talking about in my previous post. Thanks for posting this. People are getting caught up in the numbers that really don't matter. The real numbers are he and the Pats are 0-3 in their last 3 playoff games, two of which were home where the Pats never used to lose in the playoffs. Heck, he is undefeated at home in his last 26 or so regular season games.

    Stats don't necessarily make a player better, in my view. I'd still take the man over any other QB in the NFL, but he's sorta become what Peyton was for years. He's that guy that's great in the regular season, but he doesn't seem to be able to put it together in the playoffs of late. I, like you, hope that changes this season.
  19. MoLewisrocks

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    Sorry.

    1) Brady
    2) Manning (even on IR...)
    Then there is a gap that listing them numerically doesn't reflect

    3) Drew Brees
    4) Aaron Rodgers
    5) Ben Roethlisberger (Ben remains an inconsistent enigma... but 3 SB appearances and 2 rings counts...)
    Then there is another gap...

    6) Philip Rivers (has to win something to crack the current top 5)
    7) Eli Manning (clinging to his spot only by virtue of a ring)
    8) Tony Romo
    9) Matt Schaub
    10) Michael Vick
    Any of the last 3 of whom could be replaced by a Ryan, Bradford, Stafford, Flacco, et al in a heartbeat...but it's too early to tell because even winning aside, you have to produce with some consistency to even crack the list.
  20. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Rookie

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    You must be joking listing Philip Rivers at #6 behind Ben Roethlisberger. His 3 super bowl appearances are solely due to the fact that he's had a great defense to work with his entire career. Last season was a perfect example. He played terrible during the playoffs and yet the Steelers still made the super bowl because their defense got them over the hump.

    If Philip Rivers had the Steelers defense, he would have won at least two rings by now as well. And, Rivers is currently the #2 QB in the league. Check the stats. Last year, he had the second best stats of any QB after Tom Brady and he did it without Vincent Jackson or Antonio Gates. Peyton Manning played much worse.

    In 2009 he was the 2nd best QB as well, and in 2008 he was the #1 QB but he didn't get the MVP because the Chargers record was bad. Also how can you rank Michael Vick behind Tony Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Schaub? The way he's been playing these past two seasons he deserves to be ranked higher than those losers.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The kind of player Tom is, it almost stands to reason he would be playing better now than he ever did. With maturity comes wisdom (or at least that's the way life should work...). Obviously it doesn't work that way for some posters. The teams he's played on since 2004 haven't gotten better in many respects in areas that ultimately mattered.

    As long as he remains healthy I expect to see him become incrementally better until something physically causes his skills to begin to diminish. Hopefully his team is once again beginning to...

    Barring injury, given the way he trains and conditions I don't anticipate that happening for at least 4-5 more years. And even then if the skill erosion is gradual he would project as an above or even well above average starter for probably another 2-3 years. I know some of you ADHD's here can hardly wait to turn the page so you can project our next HOF leader... Be careful what you wish for. Try enjoying the ride for a change.

    And before you get to the Manning situation, believe if he can come back for another 3-4 years they will gladly absorb a disappointing 2011 and forego the Luck sweepstakes to build a better team around Manning for the final 4 and just focus more on drafting a higher ceiling backup and/or
    identifying a viable veteran option and wait to roll the dice if needbe on a #1 to replace Manning in 4-5 years if it even turns out that's the road they again have to travel. Because they know from experience that even if you hit it on #1 it can take almost a decade for that to equate to a championship...if it ever does (a lesson Pats fans should have learned in the decade that preceded Brady's first...
  22. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I'd put Rivers as a top five behind Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and then I say it's a tossup between him and Brees. The dude is pretty good.

    The Steelers won one Super Bowl DESPITE their QB, and the defense was the showcase on that '08 team as well. But I won't knock him too hard. Not one QB escapes pressure as miraculously as he does. He's like the Dominik Hasek of the NFL; you have no idea how he does it, so you want to chalk it up to luck.
  23. Simkin

    Simkin Banned

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    Roethisberger had thw 2 worst superbowls by a quarterback EVER.

    And was in route for a 3rd but then the Cardinals defense dissapeared. He was 22 .1 rating before that drive.
  24. Deus Irae

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    I don't know that I'd say Brady's playing better. I'd probably just say that he's playing differently. We may never see a clearly better performance than we did in '07.

    As for the current rankings:

    Brady
    Rodgers

    separation

    Manning

    separation, followed by a group that's probably interchangeable in order

    Brees
    Rivers
    Roethlisberger

    Ryan

    Vick (He stays at 8 until this year shows how much of last year was a fluke)

    separation, followed by a large group that can all be argued for



    Just my $.02
  25. Rob0729

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    I thought Brady's 2010 performance was one of the best single season performances by a QB in history if not the best. It was better than 2007. There are many reasons for this. As pointed out, Brady had an elite WR in Moss in 2007. Last year he had no legitimate #1 WR. Brady threw over 300 times last year without an INT which I find more impressive than the TD record myself. The Pats offense got better as it went along last year and worse in 2007.

    People say his performance was better in the Super Bowl years because he was clutch. I argue that the team was clutch back then and Brady is carrying the team now (at least until this defense shows it is a good defense). Brady didn't have a great in the first Super Bowl until the final drive and it was the defense that kept the Pats in it so Brady could do the game winning TD. Last year vs. the Jets in the playoffs, the Pats defense let Sanchez and the running game have their way. Brady made his own mistakes and wasn't great, but he did have 300 yards. If the defense did their job, the Pats might have won.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  26. voluntarysaftey

    voluntarysaftey Rookie

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    Agreed. 01-04 Pats would've stopped manning in the final drive and won the super bowl. 07-10 Pats dont/haven't
  27. PATSYLICIOUS

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    He could be better off without the 2010 Moss. No QB is better off without the 2007 Moss, a historically great WR. 2007 Brady was the greatest QB of all time but I'd have to say I was more impressed by the 2010 Brady even counting the stats while Moss was here and period from the Baltimore game to the Cleveland game where our offense was in an adjustment phase and not yet clicking on all cylinders. A 36:4 TD:INT ratio is just unheard of and could've been 36:2 if Moss was shipped out earlier. Welker was also coming off the ACL injury last year which makes it all the more impressive than 2007 where Moss/Welker were 100% and at their absolute best.
  28. livinginthe past

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    Do you not count the TD drive that gave the Patriots the lead late in the 4th quarter of the 2007 SB as 'clutch'?

    I do.

    He was getting hit all day - and yet he still gave his team the lead late in the game in a low scoring game.

    Because of the criticism that Peyton Manning has had about being 'anti-clutch' - people now equate Tom's Peyton-esque regular season numbers with a sudden lack of playoff success.

    In truth, they are not related - at least I can't see a 'logical' reason why they should be other than people adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.

    People are spoiled with the ridiculous early career success of Brady.

    There is a definite lack of respect for Patriots opponents these days - they think only in terms of the Patriots losing and not opponents winning.

    Alot of fans don't recognise the fact that; if it wasn't for underdogs beating up on the favorite in the playoffs then we wouldn't even have a Dynasty in the first place.
  29. AndyJohnson

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    Can we please stop the revisionist history. There was one game where he 'forced' the ball to Moss, and it wasn't even forcing because Moss was one on one all day with Cromartie. The fact that Moss tanked it that day created the forcing to Moss concept that didn't exist before. Look at Moss statlines. There were games where he did not get the ball because other teams took him away. Brady threw to Moss when the coverage dictated. You are remembering one game when it dictated throw to Moss, Moss gave poor effort and the results were bad so all of a sudden that meant Brady was forcing the ball to Moss. He threw to Welker a lot more than Moss, was he forcing it to him to.
    Seriously this board is the worse Ive ever seen at creating a hysterical unsupported conclusion then treating it like fact.
  30. PatsWickedPissah

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    Good points. The fanboi excitement over Mallett replacing Brady this summer was a new low for Patsfans. How someone who is a legit contender for GOAT can be disregarded by the impatient with short memory is a disgrace. Since they tend to be the same morons impressed with Fantasy stats, they're quiet at least since last week. Wait until the first Pats game that is a battle of defenses with under 200 yds passing for the 1st moronic post Brady thread to return.
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