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Tom Brady - Projecting the Remaining Years


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ivanvamp

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Tom Brady is the greatest QB - perhaps the greatest player - the NFL has ever seen. At age 39, he just continues to defy the odds in every conceivable way. After a Super Bowl in which he took nearly 20 hits and threw a Super Bowl record 62 times, he proclaimed that his body felt "great". More avocado ice cream, anyone? As an aside, it's entirely possible that his absurd four-game suspension at the start of the year left him fresher at the end. Thank you Roger.

Time is undefeated, but Brady is putting up a hell of a fight. One of the decisions Bill Belichick needs to make is deciding about the QB position for the future, and one huge aspect of that is trying to accurately project what Tom Brady will be over the next year, and maybe even 3-4 years out. As we shall see, this is not an easy task when it comes to Brady.

Let's look at Brady's stats the past 7 seasons.

2010 (33): 65.9%, 7.9 ypa, 36 td, 7.3 td%, 4 int, 0.8 int%, 111.0 rating
2011 (34): 65.6%, 8.6 ypa, 39 td, 6.4 td%, 12 int, 2.0 int%, 105.6 rating
2012 (35): 63.0%, 7.6 ypa, 34 td, 5.3 td%, 8 int, 1.3 int%, 98.7 rating
2013 (36): 60.5%, 6.9 ypa, 25 td, 4.0 td%, 11 int, 1.8 int%, 87.3 rating
2014 (37): 64.1%, 7.1 ypa, 33 td, 5.7 td%, 9 int, 1.5 int%, 97.4 rating
2015 (38): 64.4%, 7.6 ypa, 36 td, 5.8 td%, 7 int, 1.1 int%, 102.2 rating
2016 (39): 67.4%, 8.2 ypa, 28 td, 6.5 td%, 2 int, 0.5 int%, 112.2 rating

The numbers go down from 2010-2013. We can give a million reasons why, but the numbers are the numbers. Those numbers from 2010-2013 fit a typical aging curve for NFL quarterbacks.

But then from 2013-2016, the numbers go back up again. The past two seasons, Brady has been just phenomenal. 65.6%, 7.9 ypa, 64 td, 6.1 td%, 9 int, 0.9 int%, 106.3 rating

So if you didn't know his age, and just looked at his last four years' worth of numbers, you'd think he's a QB that is just entering his prime. Which is.....CRAZY, given his age. People say Aaron Rodgers is playing the position as well as anyone ever has, and that may be so, but it's hard to say that Tom Brady is NOT playing the position as well as anyone ever has.

But is it realistic to think that he could be THIS good moving forward? Can he really repeat these numbers at age 40, 41, and 42?

We really have no precedent for this.

- Peyton Manning was shot at age 39 (2,249 yds, 9 td, 17 int, 67.9 rating), and just because he won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he was good - he wasn't; he needed an historically great defense to win it for him (ironically, it was also his defense that carried him to his first SB title with the Colts). Brady just put up a 112.2 rating and had one of the greatest performances in Super Bowl history at age 39.

- Brett Favre had a good year at age 40 (4,202 yds, 33 td, 7 int, 107.2 rating) but then fell off a cliff at age 41 (2,509 yds, 11 td, 19 int, 69.9 rating).

- John Elway won a Super Bowl at age 38 but then retired.

- Dan Marino's last season was at age 38, and that last year was awful (2,448 yds, 12 td, 17 int, 67.4 rating).

- Joe Montana's last season was at age 38, and he wasn't awful, but he wasn't particularly great either (3,283 yds, 16 td, 9 int, 83.6 rating).

- Jim Kelly put up a QB rating of 73.2 in his last year, at age 36.

- Dan Fouts put up a QB rating of 70.0 in his last year, at age 36.

- Steve Young was great at age 37 (101.1 rating), but then fell off a cliff and was hurt at age 38 (60.9 rating), and then retired.

- Fran Tarkenton threw 32 interceptions and had a 68.9 rating in his last year, at age 38.

- Warren Moon's last real season was at age 42, and his rating was 76.6 that year. He'd survive in the NFL for two more seasons as a backup and would only play in two more games. He was decent at age 41 (83.7 rating), but the year before, at age 40, he had a 68.7 rating.

You just cannot really find examples of NFL quarterbacks playing well in their 40s. Most retire before then, but those that make it to their 40s aren't playing at their previous level. It seems obvious as to why. Their reflexes are slower, their foot speed and maneuverability in the pocket is lessened, their arm strength diminished. And in the NFL, split seconds' worth of decline is often the difference between an INT and a completion. Take Brady's sideline pass to Hogan in overtime of the Super Bowl that was *thisclose* to being intercepted. Brady threw a great pass that fit in a very small window. Take just a *tiny* bit of arm strength away, or take just a *tiny* bit of reaction time away from Brady, and that could have been a Super Bowl-losing pick six.

So what can we realistically expect from Brady moving forward? I don't think it would surprise any of us to see him play at a Pro Bowl level for two more seasons, given how good he is now and the way he takes care of his body. But it is unrealistic to expect this kind of production for four more seasons.

Could the Patriots keep winning titles if Brady played like he did early in his career? Think about the first phase of his career, before Welker and Moss arrived and he began putting up Madden-style passing numbers. From 2001-2006, his average season was:

3,593 yds, 24 td, 13 int, 88.4 rating

That would be better than other great QBs have managed to produce this late in their careers. It would be, however, a significant step down from what he has produced the last few seasons. So could they win if he was performing at that level? Where would Brady rank in today's game with those numbers?

An 88.4 rating would put Brady, if he had those numbers in 2016, in the same company as Russell Wilson (92.6), Andy Dalton (91.8), Alex Smith (91.2), Colin Kaepernick (90.7), Tyrod Taylor (89.6), Philip Rivers (87.9), Carson Palmer (87.2), Jameis Winston (86.1), and Eli Manning (86.0), right about in the middle of the pack among NFL starting QBs.

For reference' sake, here are the regular season QB ratings of the last 10 Super Bowl winning QBs:

2007 - Eli Manning - 73.9
2008 - Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1
2009 - Drew Brees - 109.6
2010 - Aaron Rodgers - 102.1
2011 - Eli Manning - 92.9
2012 - Joe Flacco - 87.7
2013 - Russell Wilson - 101.2
2014 - Tom Brady - 97.4
2015 - Peyton Manning - 67.9
2016 - Tom Brady - 112.2

So of the last 10 QBs to win a Super Bowl, 4 of them had passer ratings lower than what Brady averaged in the early part of his career. The point being: If Brady declined to the point where he was essentially the same QB he was in the first phase of his career, it is still very possible for the Patriots to win another Super Bowl.

Now, with that being said, nobody knows what Brady will be over the next four years, or if he will even last four years. But if this is what he became, it would be prudent for the Patriots to trade JG, for two reasons:

First, because the key to winning over the next four years would be to put as much talent around Brady as possible, as he declines (should a decline actually happen). JG provides nice insurance off the bench, but as long as he's on the bench, he's not actually helping the team on the field. Adding another first round pick (or a first rounder plus something else) would give them more talent.

Second, adding more talent would be helpful for Brady's successor, assuming he isn't as good as Brady, even Brady's decline years.

It is possible that Brady falls off a cliff. We've seen it in the NFL, even among the all-time greats, many times before. As good a job he does taking care of himself, it's still unrealistic to think that he will continue playing at this level in his 40s, but it does leave Patriots' fans optimistic that he could at least play at the level he did early in his career, and if he can do THAT, the Patriots still should very much be in the hunt for more Lombardis. In this scenario, trading JG would be the best course of action.
 
I am guessing he will play until he is 43. At some point, your body just doesn't recover from bumps and bruises as quickly. You have to do more to retain muscle mass and bone density. It is science.
 
Too long.
But the part I did read I disagree that 2010-2013 shows a pattern of decline. I think 2010-2012 show frat consistency and 2013 was just a bad year. Pretty sure we can all understand why 2013 was different.
 
I am guessing he will play until he is 43. At some point, your body just doesn't recover from bumps and bruises as quickly. You have to do more to retain muscle mass and bone density. It is science.

Then why didnt Brady miss a down after Chancellor destroyed his leg?
 
Brady never had great wrs at the start of his career. I take those numbers with a grain of salt. I think having that tight end in the offense's good for tommy. Need to have that offensive line and a good running game. Forehead manning wasn't the same because of the neck injury. Favre always had injuries and played hurt. That vikings 2010 team was awful after a great 2009. It's a matter of surrounding brady with a good OL
 
Too long.
But the part I did read I disagree that 2010-2013 shows a pattern of decline. I think 2010-2012 show frat consistency and 2013 was just a bad year. Pretty sure we can all understand why 2013 was different.

Yes injuries and not much at wr after edelman. We had guys like dobson and Thompkins. Amendola wasn't as clutch as he is now.
 
One million touchdowns

Drevil_million_dollars.jpg
 
Too long.
But the part I did read I disagree that 2010-2013 shows a pattern of decline. I think 2010-2012 show frat consistency and 2013 was just a bad year. Pretty sure we can all understand why 2013 was different.

We can quibble over the term "pattern of decline" and just talk about what the numbers are. We can even leave 2013 out of it if you want.

Completion %
2010: 65.9%
2011: 65.6%
2012: 63.0%

TD%
2010: 7.3%
2011: 6.4%
2012: 5.3%

INT%
2010: 0.8%
2011: 2.0%
2012: 1.3%

Rating
2010: 111.0
2011: 105.6
2012: 98.7

The fact is, his statistics were down from 2010 to 2012. And even worse in 2013, which you don't want to count for some reason. I mean, still really good numbers overall - nobody is saying Brady was BAD. Just that he wasn't his usual, otherworldly self.

And I think it's not reasonable to think that he will play, at age 43, at the same level he did this past year. We will see SOME decline. It's inevitable. My hope is that he declines to a level where he's still a league average starting QB, which would be REMARKABLE for a QB his age, and absolutely is a QB you can win a SB with.
 
We can quibble over the term "pattern of decline" and just talk about what the numbers are. We can even leave 2013 out of it if you want.

Completion %
2010: 65.9%
2011: 65.6%
2012: 63.0%

TD%
2010: 7.3%
2011: 6.4%
2012: 5.3%

INT%
2010: 0.8%
2011: 2.0%
2012: 1.3%

Rating
2010: 111.0
2011: 105.6
2012: 98.7

The fact is, his statistics were down from 2010 to 2012. And even worse in 2013, which you don't want to count for some reason. I mean, still really good numbers overall - nobody is saying Brady was BAD. Just that he wasn't his usual, otherworldly self.

And I think it's not reasonable to think that he will play, at age 43, at the same level he did this past year. We will see SOME decline. It's inevitable. My hope is that he declines to a level where he's still a league average starting QB, which would be REMARKABLE for a QB his age, and absolutely is a QB you can win a SB with.
I see 3 very similar years.
 
64 td and 9 int over the past 2 seasons. In the last *3* seasons, the two greatest Super Bowl comebacks of all time.

The guy is just beyond incredible.


peyton manning - 2013/2014 94TD's 25 INT's
2015 - 9 TD/17INT's

nobody sees it until it happens
 
I see 3 very similar years.

All very good years. But clearly a downward trend.

A TD% that goes from 7.3% to 5.3% is clearly down.
A passer rating that goes from 111.0 to 98.7 is clearly down.

Other categories are a little closer, but still down.

Comp% that goes from 65.9% to 63.0% is still down.
INT% that goes from 0.8% to 1.3% is still up. (and, er, down from a quality standpoint)

It's not like Brady was, in any way, bad in 2012 or 2013. He just wasn't otherworldly. I guess you can see what you want to see, but mathematics are what they are.
 
Brady is the outlier to the traditional thought of QBs hitting the wall at his age.

In a few years when other QBs adopt his training and diet methods he won't be.

The comparison with Manning is not applicable. Manning had a neck injury to go along with his age.
 
Tom Brady is the greatest QB - perhaps the greatest player - the NFL has ever seen. At age 39, he just continues to defy the odds in every conceivable way. After a Super Bowl in which he took nearly 20 hits and threw a Super Bowl record 62 times, he proclaimed that his body felt "great". More avocado ice cream, anyone? As an aside, it's entirely possible that his absurd four-game suspension at the start of the year left him fresher at the end. Thank you Roger.

Time is undefeated, but Brady is putting up a hell of a fight. One of the decisions Bill Belichick needs to make is deciding about the QB position for the future, and one huge aspect of that is trying to accurately project what Tom Brady will be over the next year, and maybe even 3-4 years out. As we shall see, this is not an easy task when it comes to Brady.

Let's look at Brady's stats the past 7 seasons.

2010 (33): 65.9%, 7.9 ypa, 36 td, 7.3 td%, 4 int, 0.8 int%, 111.0 rating
2011 (34): 65.6%, 8.6 ypa, 39 td, 6.4 td%, 12 int, 2.0 int%, 105.6 rating
2012 (35): 63.0%, 7.6 ypa, 34 td, 5.3 td%, 8 int, 1.3 int%, 98.7 rating
2013 (36): 60.5%, 6.9 ypa, 25 td, 4.0 td%, 11 int, 1.8 int%, 87.3 rating
2014 (37): 64.1%, 7.1 ypa, 33 td, 5.7 td%, 9 int, 1.5 int%, 97.4 rating
2015 (38): 64.4%, 7.6 ypa, 36 td, 5.8 td%, 7 int, 1.1 int%, 102.2 rating
2016 (39): 67.4%, 8.2 ypa, 28 td, 6.5 td%, 2 int, 0.5 int%, 112.2 rating

The numbers go down from 2010-2013. We can give a million reasons why, but the numbers are the numbers. Those numbers from 2010-2013 fit a typical aging curve for NFL quarterbacks.

But then from 2013-2016, the numbers go back up again. The past two seasons, Brady has been just phenomenal. 65.6%, 7.9 ypa, 64 td, 6.1 td%, 9 int, 0.9 int%, 106.3 rating

So if you didn't know his age, and just looked at his last four years' worth of numbers, you'd think he's a QB that is just entering his prime. Which is.....CRAZY, given his age. People say Aaron Rodgers is playing the position as well as anyone ever has, and that may be so, but it's hard to say that Tom Brady is NOT playing the position as well as anyone ever has.

But is it realistic to think that he could be THIS good moving forward? Can he really repeat these numbers at age 40, 41, and 42?

We really have no precedent for this.

- Peyton Manning was shot at age 39 (2,249 yds, 9 td, 17 int, 67.9 rating), and just because he won a Super Bowl doesn't mean he was good - he wasn't; he needed an historically great defense to win it for him (ironically, it was also his defense that carried him to his first SB title with the Colts). Brady just put up a 112.2 rating and had one of the greatest performances in Super Bowl history at age 39.

- Brett Favre had a good year at age 40 (4,202 yds, 33 td, 7 int, 107.2 rating) but then fell off a cliff at age 41 (2,509 yds, 11 td, 19 int, 69.9 rating).

- John Elway won a Super Bowl at age 38 but then retired.

- Dan Marino's last season was at age 38, and that last year was awful (2,448 yds, 12 td, 17 int, 67.4 rating).

- Joe Montana's last season was at age 38, and he wasn't awful, but he wasn't particularly great either (3,283 yds, 16 td, 9 int, 83.6 rating).

- Jim Kelly put up a QB rating of 73.2 in his last year, at age 36.

- Dan Fouts put up a QB rating of 70.0 in his last year, at age 36.

- Steve Young was great at age 37 (101.1 rating), but then fell off a cliff and was hurt at age 38 (60.9 rating), and then retired.

- Fran Tarkenton threw 32 interceptions and had a 68.9 rating in his last year, at age 38.

- Warren Moon's last real season was at age 42, and his rating was 76.6 that year. He'd survive in the NFL for two more seasons as a backup and would only play in two more games. He was decent at age 41 (83.7 rating), but the year before, at age 40, he had a 68.7 rating.

You just cannot really find examples of NFL quarterbacks playing well in their 40s. Most retire before then, but those that make it to their 40s aren't playing at their previous level. It seems obvious as to why. Their reflexes are slower, their foot speed and maneuverability in the pocket is lessened, their arm strength diminished. And in the NFL, split seconds' worth of decline is often the difference between an INT and a completion. Take Brady's sideline pass to Hogan in overtime of the Super Bowl that was *thisclose* to being intercepted. Brady threw a great pass that fit in a very small window. Take just a *tiny* bit of arm strength away, or take just a *tiny* bit of reaction time away from Brady, and that could have been a Super Bowl-losing pick six.

So what can we realistically expect from Brady moving forward? I don't think it would surprise any of us to see him play at a Pro Bowl level for two more seasons, given how good he is now and the way he takes care of his body. But it is unrealistic to expect this kind of production for four more seasons.

Could the Patriots keep winning titles if Brady played like he did early in his career? Think about the first phase of his career, before Welker and Moss arrived and he began putting up Madden-style passing numbers. From 2001-2006, his average season was:

3,593 yds, 24 td, 13 int, 88.4 rating

That would be better than other great QBs have managed to produce this late in their careers. It would be, however, a significant step down from what he has produced the last few seasons. So could they win if he was performing at that level? Where would Brady rank in today's game with those numbers?

An 88.4 rating would put Brady, if he had those numbers in 2016, in the same company as Russell Wilson (92.6), Andy Dalton (91.8), Alex Smith (91.2), Colin Kaepernick (90.7), Tyrod Taylor (89.6), Philip Rivers (87.9), Carson Palmer (87.2), Jameis Winston (86.1), and Eli Manning (86.0), right about in the middle of the pack among NFL starting QBs.

For reference' sake, here are the regular season QB ratings of the last 10 Super Bowl winning QBs:

2007 - Eli Manning - 73.9
2008 - Ben Roethlisberger - 80.1
2009 - Drew Brees - 109.6
2010 - Aaron Rodgers - 102.1
2011 - Eli Manning - 92.9
2012 - Joe Flacco - 87.7
2013 - Russell Wilson - 101.2
2014 - Tom Brady - 97.4
2015 - Peyton Manning - 67.9
2016 - Tom Brady - 112.2

So of the last 10 QBs to win a Super Bowl, 4 of them had passer ratings lower than what Brady averaged in the early part of his career. The point being: If Brady declined to the point where he was essentially the same QB he was in the first phase of his career, it is still very possible for the Patriots to win another Super Bowl.

Now, with that being said, nobody knows what Brady will be over the next four years, or if he will even last four years. But if this is what he became, it would be prudent for the Patriots to trade JG, for two reasons:

First, because the key to winning over the next four years would be to put as much talent around Brady as possible, as he declines (should a decline actually happen). JG provides nice insurance off the bench, but as long as he's on the bench, he's not actually helping the team on the field. Adding another first round pick (or a first rounder plus something else) would give them more talent.

Second, adding more talent would be helpful for Brady's successor, assuming he isn't as good as Brady, even Brady's decline years.

It is possible that Brady falls off a cliff. We've seen it in the NFL, even among the all-time greats, many times before. As good a job he does taking care of himself, it's still unrealistic to think that he will continue playing at this level in his 40s, but it does leave Patriots' fans optimistic that he could at least play at the level he did early in his career, and if he can do THAT, the Patriots still should very much be in the hunt for more Lombardis. In this scenario, trading JG would be the best course of action.


That's as thorough as it gets both in terms of his numbers and other QB's careers but I still look at it from the point of view that Brady has been preparing for a much longer career for years. Unlike all if those examples Brady made a conscious decision and continuous effort to train his body for the long run, and his ability to play every game every year supports the fact that he has prepared himself better. And as you pointed out his numbers are actually going in the wrong direction for a player his age. Brady is actually a better quarterback now than he was earlier in his career, and he explained why in his interview with King when he said "I know all the answers to the test." He's played 260 games and there isn't anything he hasn't seen.

As long as Brady continues to have a good level of talent around him I expect him to perform at the same level, and when his play does start to decline he will be the first to recognize it as he scrutinizes it every day. I think Belichick knows that all you have to do is give Brady an open receiver and he will be successful, and that simply isn't true for most NFL quarterbacks. This may also be the reason Belichick brought in Bennett last off season, and wants Cooks this off season. Brady may some day be 80% of the QB he is today, but as you pointed out that is still better than most QB's and definitely good enough to win Lombardi's.

Despite my arguments with those who keep employing the "cliff" argument I actually like Garrapolo, I just think that the contention he will be better than Brady goes way beyond presumptuous. When there is evidence of Brady declining people can start arguing that his time is drawing to an end,until then they are just presuming it, and selling Tom Brady short has never worked for anyone.
 
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All very good years. But clearly a downward trend.

A TD% that goes from 7.3% to 5.3% is clearly down.
A passer rating that goes from 111.0 to 98.7 is clearly down.

Other categories are a little closer, but still down.

Comp% that goes from 65.9% to 63.0% is still down.
INT% that goes from 0.8% to 1.3% is still up. (and, er, down from a quality standpoint)

It's not like Brady was, in any way, bad in 2012 or 2013. He just wasn't otherworldly. I guess you can see what you want to see, but mathematics are what they are.
You can make statistics say whatever you want.
Using percentages is a good way.

First and most important point scored
518
513
557

The Td % you seem so wrapped up in?
TDs
36
39
34
Hardly a pattern of decline and probably statistically insignificant when matched with points scored.

Yards
3900
5235
4827

Attempts
492
611
637

Again in an offense that was overall roughly equally successful over 3 years comparing % stats when there is a difference of over 25% in lass attempts in apples and oranges.
 
All very good years. But clearly a downward trend.

A TD% that goes from 7.3% to 5.3% is clearly down.
A passer rating that goes from 111.0 to 98.7 is clearly down.

Other categories are a little closer, but still down.

Comp% that goes from 65.9% to 63.0% is still down.
INT% that goes from 0.8% to 1.3% is still up. (and, er, down from a quality standpoint)

It's not like Brady was, in any way, bad in 2012 or 2013. He just wasn't otherworldly. I guess you can see what you want to see, but mathematics are what they are.
Brady's mist passing yards ever 2011. Second most 2012.
Second most td passes ever 2011. 2012 was his 5th most.
There is no decline happening in this period.
 
Brady is the outlier to the traditional thought of QBs hitting the wall at his age.

In a few years when other QBs adopt his training and diet methods he won't be.

The comparison with Manning is not applicable. Manning had a neck injury to go along with his age.


Right on the money. My understanding is that both Brees and Rodgers are adopting Brady's approach to training. I doubt anyone would go to the lengths Brady does, right down to his pajamas, but the emphasis on core, pliability, yoga, and resistance bands over weights is something many QB's are going to move to, and we can expect them to last longer if they do the other work ( film and mechanics) that Brady does.
 
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