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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.True. But who did they play to get to the Super Bowl?
Divisional Round: beat Tennessee, 17-14.
AFC Championship Game: beat Indianapolis 24-14.
They played both those teams during the regular season....
- beat Tennessee 38-30 in week 5
- beat Indianapolis 38-34 in week 13
So while your point is valid, they could always come back with....well, they wouldn't likely have even gotten to the Super Bowl without the tapes on the Titans and Colts.
I wasn't addressing you at all, sorry.
Although I'm curious about this statement:
"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."
I didn't read every post, so what is your basis for that? (Everyone else, you can ignore, just talking to upstater here, haha)
this just reminded me...I went to Goodell's appearance at Foxboro...part of his "Roger speaks to the fans" tour...with my older brother, a psychologist for 40 years, and my cousin, a RI state trooper...when I tried to be one of the select to ask our exalted Commish a question, I was told "no spygate questions allowed", and we were selectively, the three of us,kept at a distance as ol' Roger went through the motions of that dog and pony show...want a good laugh, get the transcript of his appearance...I think CHFF still has it archived.
Oh, the Patriots needed tapes to get to the Super Bowl?
2 wins in 2007
2 wins in 2011
At best, they could come back with, they needed refs (see Baltimore 2011) but the Patriots have proven they can both get to the Super Bowl without stolen signals and can win a Super Bowl without stolen signals.
I've tried reading through this very painful thread, and just wanted to say PatsFanSince74 has been spot-on with every one of his posts here. It doesn't matter what the facts of the case are, it doesn't matter what we as Patriots fans think or believe. Many, if not most non-Patriots fans view SpyGate as a VERY serious matter, a single-handed effort by a rogue organization to violate the integrity and essence of the game, led by a moral-less individual who will win at all costs. If you don't agree, you haven't been around non-Patriot fans. Go over to JI right now, where Jets fans are still screaming at Pats fans telling them they should be ashamed of their team being involved in the "greatest scandal in the history of sports."
The average fan who who reads ESPN for all of his sports news thinks the Patriots literally knew their opponents' every play, on both sides of the ball, of every game for the entire Belichick era in New England, and all of their success is fraudulent. Nothing short of a full NFL or even Congressional investigation with a big book of official findings proving this to be otherwise will change their minds. And for the biggest of Pats-haters, even that won't do it. Plenty believe Goodell was involved in a massive cover-up in order to save face for the league, and would continue to do so in any follow-up.
It sucks, but all of the long-winded essays in the world are not going to change that perception.
Ugh. You're missing my point, which I didn't think was that hard to see. All I'm saying is, while I think you make a great point about the Pats-Panthers Super Bowl, that anyone still arguing the typical spygate-is-the-only-reason-the-Pats-won-Super Bowls line can take what you said about the Pats-Panthers SB being proof that they won one without taping, and turn around and say, well, that may be true, but they wouldn't have even gotten to that particular Super Bowl without taping, since they beat the Titans and Colts in the playoffs, and they had tapes on those two teams.
That's a long, run-on sentence to say that, yes I agree with you. But the other side has a legit comeback to your point. I'm sure you can see that.
I can understand the argument, but they can't generalize it. Which is my point. They can't say the Patriots can't get to a Super Bowl without stolen signals. That's been disproven.
So, more power to them if they want to go to mix and match arguments. They can do it until they are blue in the face. I agree with all here. But for reasonable people, and here I'm talking about ordinary Bills fans I talk to, I've never once heard them comeback with anything when I make the point about the Panthers.
That's all I'm saying. if you want a retort, use it. You'll be surprised at how few people want to make the long-winded argument about stolen signals and the Patriots inability to make it/win a Super Bowl without them.