PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

The Pats haven't won since spygate: setting the record straight


Status
Not open for further replies.
I wish that so-called spygate would never be discussed again, but sadly, that will probably never be a reality. After SB 46, a lot of people drummed up the old, "The Pats haven't won a Super Bowl since spygate" line. It died down for a few weeks, but has resurfaced with the Saints' bounty scandal. As much as I'd love for this other scandal to make people forget about spygate, it seems like the first thing people think of when they hear about the bounty scandal is, unfortunately, spygate itself. The penalty for taping opposing signals was so harsh that it has become the standard by which all other penalties are measured.

Within the last day, I have heard no less than 10 people say/write, "The Pats haven't won anything since spygate". I'm sick of it and - if for no other reason than that it's therapeutic for me - want to put that tired old line to bed.

To refresh peoples' memories, though it goes back earlier than that, the formal spygate scandal began when Patriots were caught taping signals against the Jets in the first quarter of the first game of the season in 2007, a 38-14 rout of the New York Jets. From the moment they were caught, they (and this has been confirmed by Goodell's office) did not re-engage in the practice.

The Pats have always held that the taping was for the benefit of long-term study on teams; it's a quicker process for intel than simply watching the opposing sideline and writing it down. In fact, it was such a common practice that when the Pats were doing it during Herm Edwards' tenure as HC of the NYJ, Edwards looked at the camera, waved, and smiled. Several prominent football people like Jimmy Johnson came out and said it was extremely common in the NFL to do what the Patriots did. Again, the benefit was a time-saver to gather information for down the road. It had no benefit for that immediate game (contrary to what many idiots in the media suggested).

So, since the first quarter of the first game of 2007, the Pats have won nothing, right? Well, except for this:

- 64-16 regular season record, an .800 winning percentage. That's the best regular season record in the NFL over the last 5 years.

- 4 division titles. They tied for a 5th but lost out on a low-level tiebreaker in the year that Tom Brady was out for the season. No team has won more division titles over the last 5 years than the Patriots.

- 2 AFC championships. No team has won more than 2 conference championships in the last 5 years. The Giants, of course, won 2 (and 2 SBs), and the Steelers won 2.

- Gone 4-4 in the playoffs over that time. Not the best playoff record in the NFL over that time span, but not many teams have won more than 4 playoff games since 2007.

- Regular season + post season record over the last 5 seasons: 68-20 (.772). No team has come close to that record over that time span.

- Came within about 1:30, and two amazing catches, away from adding two more SB titles. Great plays by the Giants, but both of which were historically great plays. In other words, while the Pats did indeed lose 2 SBs, and didn't put forth their A-level performance in either, they still lost in the last minute when the opponent made unbelievable plays to get down the field. So yes, the Pats lost, but they lost in as close a scenario as possible on both occasions, and on both occasions they came within a foot (or a yard) of completing their own miraculous play that would have won the game in the last seconds themselves.

Bottom line: the whole "they haven't won anything" since spygate is a complete crock. In fact, they've won more than any other franchise in the sport since spygate. Not more super bowls, but more everything elses. Of course we all want the SB titles, but hey, in the past 5 years only 4 teams have won a SB anyway, so lots of great teams (Peyton Manning's Colts, Tony Romo's Cowboys, Philip Rivers' Chargers, Ray Lewis' Ravens, etc.) have failed to win a SB.


I think you make some good points and reminders of how silly the whole thing is. The time when Edwards waves to the camera is the kicker. If that does not show people how overblown this whole story was then nothing would. The media made a point to drive this story from the start and some of them are still trying to do it today. They would play comments from other players about it even months after the season ended. I can't believe that almost five years later this is still an issue people bring up. But with the media and the haters on a mission to make sure it does not go away, maybe I shouldn't be. The Patriots haters seem to love to hang on to this one and always will in a desperate attempt to tear down what the team has been able to accomplish. They will not see it for what it is because they don't want to. They will not be fair and objective because they don't want to. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story right? Well they sure will not do that. It does not fit their agenda. Spygate, as silly as it is, has become the justification for fans on why they lost to the Patriots during those years.
 
That stuff's nothing but crap for fans of opposing teams to spew in their ignorant and predictable fashion that we've grown to love.

If anything, another repeat #1 seed and a return trip to the SB this yr at least quieted some of those idiots down.

Bottom line is that we're the winningest team in the entire NFL post-spygate, but the haters can point to 2 close last second SB losses, and it somehow makes them feel better.

They can say what they want, but who wouldn't trade with us, besides maybe the Giants, and even then they haven't gone to the playoffs every yr either. They certainly haven't been as consistent.

The NEP are in the top tier of the NFL, and they aren't going away any time soon.
 
By the way, please tell me that because I pointed out you were wrong in another thread and after arguing you werent for 20 posts and you finally realized you were and you aren't mature enough to admit it, doesn't you are going to follow me around and make smart@ss comments on all my posts.

Holy run on sentence batman, let me read your jumbled excuse for a response...


Ok tried to make sense of it. And to answer your question Nope not the case just pointing out that when the former OC speaks out it pretty much seals the deal for me. The throw was a terribly difficult catch to make for welker, it isn't the type of catches he makes he's not CJ.
 
I'm honestly not trying to be obtuse. It's not a matter of belief. It's not a matter of convincing anyone. They didn't have film on the Carolina Panthers, not any film derived from filming illegally anyway. Why? Because they hadn't played the Panthers as recently as the prior two regular seasons, and the last time they played them, the Panthers had a totally different coaching staff.

There's nothing to debate. These are facts.

And we agree on the facts.

The problem is, outside New England most folks don't agree on those facts, either because they see the same facts differently or because they haven't bothered to learn them. They believe either what they wanted to believe going in to the whole mess or what they were conditioned to believe by a biased media over many weeks of un-refuted, erroneous reporting.

And, if it's "not a matter of convincing anyone," why are you writing long explanations that are already understood and believed by Pats supporters (like me) but that aren't going to do any good with anyone outside New England?

We're going around in circles now. Thanks for the conversation.
 
I've tried reading through this very painful thread, and just wanted to say PatsFanSince74 has been spot-on with every one of his posts here. It doesn't matter what the facts of the case are, it doesn't matter what we as Patriots fans think or believe. Many, if not most non-Patriots fans view SpyGate as a VERY serious matter, a single-handed effort by a rogue organization to violate the integrity and essence of the game, led by a moral-less individual who will win at all costs. If you don't agree, you haven't been around non-Patriot fans. Go over to JI right now, where Jets fans are still screaming at Pats fans telling them they should be ashamed of their team being involved in the "greatest scandal in the history of sports."

The average fan who who reads ESPN for all of his sports news thinks the Patriots literally knew their opponents' every play, on both sides of the ball, of every game for the entire Belichick era in New England, and all of their success is fraudulent. Nothing short of a full NFL or even Congressional investigation with a big book of official findings proving this to be otherwise will change their minds. And for the biggest of Pats-haters, even that won't do it. Plenty believe Goodell was involved in a massive cover-up in order to save face for the league, and would continue to do so in any follow-up.

It sucks, but all of the long-winded essays in the world are not going to change that perception.
 
Last edited:
so we should all shut up and let the legion of mongoloids have their way with their totally erroneous perceptions?...this is great...let's extend this thinking to every facet of American life...."there is no sub prime mortgage crisis!!!"...great, glad I kept my mouth shut when some TV finance idiot stated this...now I'm living in a van down by the river...."Bernie Madoff is a reputable person!!!!"...tremendous...I'll just keep my mouth shut and let my entire family invest their life's savings in his financial "instruments"...gee...thanx ,Salva...I see a HUGE improvement in my quality of life just by keeping my mouth shut when I hear "the earth is flat!!!!"....when anybody says it's not, I think we should all just sit there with our mouths shut and watch him burn at the stake....great....

What was done to the New England Patriots and their fanbase by this ongoing avalanche of lies and disinformation is criminal...corruption needs to see the light of day as do lies and slanders...so YOU quit..that's what quitters do best and that is what allows corruption to continue...I intend to fight until the lid is ripped off this mindless fan group think.
 
I think at some point Ian should make starting any thread on spygate a bannable offense here. I know most of the OP's mean well, but it's a case of patsfans being their own worst enemies by drawing attention to the subject and drawing out the worst of the malcontents among us. Stop trolling JI and other teams sites and you won't encounter nearly as much of it. And when you do just take it for what it is, jealousy. I know we haven't won "anything" since, because enough malcontent resident trolls keep surfacing or re-surfacing here (as they do in any defeat or potentially negative circumstance) and reminding us. But the fact is those who hoped to have destroyed Belichick and Brady and to some extent the organization in the process have simply been left to face the fact that they remain like The Terminator I and II, no matter what you do to them, the bastids just won't go away...:D

I know some of you need to win it all to feel vindication, but believe me - it's already been achieved.
 
Last edited:
Joker,

Please keep fighting the good fight, your posts are always great to read and I hear ya. I've just been in so many pointless debates that I've gotten tired of it. I was pretty over all of this until BountyGate started, and sure enough, SpyGate is back and making this board a miserable place to be lately, as if we don't have enough to be pissed off about recently.

But don't let me keep you down, man!
 
so we should all shut up and let the legion of mongoloids have their way with their totally erroneous perceptions?...this is great...let's extend this thinking to every facet of American life...."there is no sub prime mortgage crisis!!!"...great, glad I kept my mouth shut when some TV finance idiot stated this...now I'm living in a van down by the river...."Bernie Madoff is a reputable person!!!!"...tremendous...I'll just keep my mouth shut and let my entire family invest their life's savings in his financial "instruments"...gee...thanx ,Salva...I see a HUGE improvement in my quality of life just by keeping my mouth shut when I hear "the earth is flat!!!!"....when anybody says it's not, I think we should all just sit there with our mouths shut and watch him burn at the stake....great....

What was done to the New England Patriots and their fanbase by this ongoing avalanche of lies and disinformation is criminal...corruption needs to see the light of day as do lies and slanders...so YOU quit..that's what quitters do best and that is what allows corruption to continue...I intend to fight until the lid is ripped off this mindless fan group think.

Then at least have the decency to go fight it somewhere else...like the political board here where you are free to rant about economic issues to your hearts content. Go rant at the infidels, it won't matter, they'll just think your a nutjob but if it makes you feel better to go all Don Quixote have a ball. Just don't keep dragging folks who have largely moved on back into a fight they will never win. Haters gonna hate... Engage them if that floats your boat, just take the fight to them and don't regurgitate the debate here. We all know where to go if we want to partake in these debates.
 
Last edited:
nothing personal whatsoever...sorry for the harsh tone...MLR is right...we have no need to deal with this crap anymore, we never did....my problem is with the person at the head of this whole mess, the person who set the Jupiter-like perpetual hurricane in motion...I want Goodell to ANSWER direct ,pointed questions...on a number specific subjects..but basically I want him to VERBALIZE exactly WHAT was in those "tapes" and WHY he kept his mouth shut as the media and players/coaches from other NFL teams ran amok telling lies to the country. If anybody thinks he's not directly responsible for all this crap fours years later and counting, then they just haven't been watching.
 
Write him a scathing letter. Send a copy to all the mediots who continue to spew crap. It won't help but if it makes you fell better, go for it. Kust don't post a copy here.

Bill will never forgive or forget, but he moves on because he knows getting bogged down in crap that can't be changed is always counter productive.
 
And we agree on the facts.

The problem is, outside New England most folks don't agree on those facts, either because they see the same facts differently or because they haven't bothered to learn them. They believe either what they wanted to believe going in to the whole mess or what they were conditioned to believe by a biased media over many weeks of un-refuted, erroneous reporting.

And, if it's "not a matter of convincing anyone," why are you writing long explanations that are already understood and believed by Pats supporters (like me) but that aren't going to do any good with anyone outside New England?

We're going around in circles now. Thanks for the conversation.

Long explanations? No. Short explanations. In fact, that's been my real only contribution to this thread. As I've said, you can be short and sweet with your points on this issue.

"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."

That's it.

And I do live outside New England and I have said this to people, and it's worked every time. Probably because I don't talk to idiots.

I think this thread is a good example of how even Patriots fans get into convoluted discussions about rule-breaking and the value of stolen signals, etc., when it could all be put to bed by saying the Patriots did not have stolen signals against the Panthers. That's all I've been saying.

So simple.
 
Write him a scathing letter. Send a copy to all the mediots who continue to spew crap. It won't help but if it makes you fell better, go for it. Kust don't post a copy here.

Bill will never forgive or forget, but he moves on because he knows getting bogged down in crap that can't be changed is always counter productive.

this just reminded me...I went to Goodell's appearance at Foxboro...part of his "Roger speaks to the fans" tour...with my older brother, a psychologist for 40 years, and my cousin, a RI state trooper...when I tried to be one of the select to ask our exalted Commish a question, I was told "no spygate questions allowed", and we were selectively, the three of us,kept at a distance as ol' Roger went through the motions of that dog and pony show...want a good laugh, get the transcript of his appearance...I think CHFF still has it archived.
 
Long explanations? No. Short explanations. In fact, that's been my real only contribution to this thread. As I've said, you can be short and sweet with your points on this issue.

"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."

That's it.

And I do live outside New England and I have said this to people, and it's worked every time. Probably because I don't talk to idiots.

I think this thread is a good example of how even Patriots fans get into convoluted discussions about rule-breaking and the value of stolen signals, etc., when it could all be put to bed by saying the Patriots did not have stolen signals against the Panthers. That's all I've been saying.

So simple.

You obviously are responding to other posters, not to me. I'm done with this thread. You just don't listen.
 
If you don't agree, you haven't been around non-Patriot fans.

I don't live in New England. I'm around non-Patriot fans all the time, and there's nothing long-winded about what I wrote.
 
You obviously are responding to other posters, not to me. I'm done with this thread. You just don't listen.

Obviously I was responding to you since you responded to my post. I don't listen? Talk about obtuse.
 
Last edited:
I don't live in New England. I'm around non-Patriot fans all the time, and there's nothing long-winded about what I wrote.


I wasn't addressing you at all, sorry.

Although I'm curious about this statement:

"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."

I didn't read every post, so what is your basis for that? (Everyone else, you can ignore, just talking to upstater here, haha)
 
I wasn't addressing you at all, sorry.

Although I'm curious about this statement:

"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."

I didn't read every post, so what is your basis for that? (Everyone else, you can ignore, just talking to upstater here, haha)

the easiest way to research this is click on Upstater's name and search "recent posts"...it should be right there on the first page of posts...
 
Long explanations? No. Short explanations. In fact, that's been my real only contribution to this thread. As I've said, you can be short and sweet with your points on this issue.

"The Patriots have won a Super Bowl without the benefit of stolen signals."

That's it.

And I do live outside New England and I have said this to people, and it's worked every time. Probably because I don't talk to idiots.

I think this thread is a good example of how even Patriots fans get into convoluted discussions about rule-breaking and the value of stolen signals, etc., when it could all be put to bed by saying the Patriots did not have stolen signals against the Panthers. That's all I've been saying.

So simple.

True. But who did they play to get to the Super Bowl?

Divisional Round: beat Tennessee, 17-14.
AFC Championship Game: beat Indianapolis 24-14.

They played both those teams during the regular season....

- beat Tennessee 38-30 in week 5
- beat Indianapolis 38-34 in week 13

So while your point is valid, they could always come back with....well, they wouldn't likely have even gotten to the Super Bowl without the tapes on the Titans and Colts.
 
Last edited:
True. But who did they play to get to the Super Bowl?

Divisional Round: beat Tennessee, 17-14.
AFC Championship Game: beat Indianapolis 24-14.

They played both those teams during the regular season....

- beat Tennessee 38-30 in week 5
- beat Indianapolis 38-34 in week 13

So while your point is valid, they could always come back with....well, they wouldn't likely have even gotten to the Super Bowl without the tapes on the Titans and Colts.

See Ivancamp, this is the futility of starting a thread like this here in a nutshell. Utterly pointless circular debates where in the end the OP begins arguing against the logic of his own initial contention...with other patsfans.

We need a dedicated please, god make it stop praying baby emoticon...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top