The official OC/DC are really bad thread [merged]

[Garbanza]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Please post your the OC or DC or both are really, really bad post on this thread.

Just wanted to get this started so we don't have 10 threads on the same subject.

We actually do not have an official OC,but the make pretend one, O'Brien, does suck ....a lot. Pees, on the other hand, isn't as awful as you all think. Last night showed that the Patriots DO NOT HAVE THE DEFENSIVE HORSES to be a good defense. They are a mediocre defense with mediocre players. They can stop bad to mediocre teams. The can't stop good to elite teams.

I think last night explained why BB went for it on fourth and 2. I don't trust this defense either.

 

[hyperpat]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Have to agree that Pees is just not a good DC. He doesn't seem to have a feel for the rhythm of the game like a some of the NFL's top flight DCs. He calls a blitz at the wrong time and goes to soft coverage at the wrong time. He may be good at some of the prep aspects of the game, but his in game playcalling is mediocre at best.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

We actually do not have an official OC,but the make pretend one, O'Brien, does suck ....a lot. Pees, on the other hand, isn't as awful as you all think. Last night showed that the Patriots DO NOT HAVE THE DEFENSIVE HORSES to be a good defense. They are a mediocre defense with mediocre players. They can stop bad to mediocre teams. The can't stop good to elite teams.

I think last night explained why BB went for it on fourth and 2. I don't trust this defense either.

This Pats defense SHOULD have the horses. Heck, 6 of this teams last 7 top picks (in the first 2 rounds ) of the last 3 drafts have been used on defensive players (Chung, Brace, Butler, Mayo, Wheatley, and Meriweather) Add Pryor, Crable and Wilhite and yoi are talking 9 young players there who should be contributing and making plays on defense. If they aren't then either the scouting is poor or the coaching is.

 

[Garbanza]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

This Pats defense SHOULD have the horses. Heck, 6 of this teams last 7 top picks (in the first 2 rounds ) of the last 3 drafts have been used on defensive players (Chung, Brace, Butler, Mayo, Wheatley, and Meriweather) Add Pryor, Crable and Wilhite and yoi are talking 9 young players there who should be contributing and making plays on defense. If they aren't then either the scouting is poor or the coaching is.

It's probably both.....but let's look at the players:

Chung: good hitter, sucks in coverage
Brace: Really?
Butler: has potential....maybe
Mayo: sophomore slump? Misses Bruschi?
Wheatley: who?
Merriweather: good, not great. Not the leader we all want him to be. Mass confusion in the secondary last night.
Pryor: I like the guy, but will he be any better than average?
Crable: child please
Wilhite: Ellis Hobbs without the KR abilities.

One of the best young defenseive players we got the past couple of years is Guyton...and he was undrafted. So, I give the nod to the scouting being worse than the coaching. They are picking the wrong horses.

 

[upstater1]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

We actually do not have an official OC,but the make pretend one, O'Brien, does suck ....a lot. Pees, on the other hand, isn't as awful as you all think. Last night showed that the Patriots DO NOT HAVE THE DEFENSIVE HORSES to be a good defense. They are a mediocre defense with mediocre players. They can stop bad to mediocre teams. The can't stop good to elite teams.

I think last night explained why BB went for it on fourth and 2. I don't trust this defense either.

This defense has more talent than the 1996 defense that Belichick himself molded into a fighting force.

Willie Clay, Ferric Collons, Chad Eaton, Jerome Henderson, Jimmy Hitch****, Ted Johnson, Mike Jones, rookie Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Marty Moore, Otis Smith, Dwayne Sabb, Pio Sagapolutele, Chris Slade, Chris Sullivan, tedy bruschi who hardly played.

This 2009 defense has more than enough talent. They are not playing up to their talent level.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Only a mother could love the Patriot's offensive playcalling last night. They ran hard on the first drive and then got away from it almost entirely. They had 9 rushing attempts on their 1st drive out of a total of 23 carries for Maroney Morris and Faulk.

When the Patriots took a timeout before going for the 4th down on the 12 yard line or whatever it was in the 3rd quarter, I sent a text message to my friend: "Shotgun formation short pass coming right up - expect incompletion or int."


As for the defensive playcalling - they looked like they were being dictated to from the get go by the Saints multiple formations. You can't blitz the Saints, and mixing up coverages obviously turned out worse for the Patriots instead of causing any confusion for Brees.

 

[maverick4]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Talent-wise on both sides of the ball we have top-10 units.

We have done much more in previous years, especially on offense, with much less talent-wise.

The woes right now are ALL scheme and play-calling related, on both sides of the ball.

 

[Garbanza]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

This defense has more talent than the 1996 defense that Belichick himself molded into a fighting force.

Willie Clay, Ferric Collons, Chad Eaton, Jerome Henderson, Jimmy Hitch****, Ted Johnson, Mike Jones, rookie Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Marty Moore, Otis Smith, Dwayne Sabb, Pio Sagapolutele, Chris Slade, Chris Sullivan, tedy bruschi who hardly played.

This 2009 defense has more than enough talent. They are not playing up to their talent level.

we over-rate the talent. I would take a rookie Law and Otis smith over Wilhite and Bodden. I'll take Clay at safety. Willie McGinest over Burgess. Slade over TBC. Ted Johnson over any of the MLBs.

 

[racicotm]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

This OC flat out sucks theres many reasons for it but he just doesn't understand football much less how to call it. It's painfully apparent that he is way over his head. I can't imagine that Brady and Moss are at all happy with this worthless idiot it's truly embarassing how predictable the playcalling is and even when he tries to be creative it is just lame. I think O brien is the only O coordinator that has no concept of tricking a defense even the trick plays are sniffed out and have no surprise value. An offense that can't even get a D to bite on a fleaflicker! you gotta be F'n kidding me.

 

[upstater1]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

we over-rate the talent. I would take a rookie Law and Otis smith over Wilhite and Bodden. I'll take Clay at safety. Willie McGinest over Burgess. Slade over TBC. Ted Johnson over any of the MLBs.

So you like the 1996 players better?

I'm shaking my head.

 

[JackBauer]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

It's probably both.....but let's look at the players:

Chung: good hitter, sucks in coverage
Brace: Really?
Butler: has potential....maybe
Mayo: sophomore slump? Misses Bruschi?
Wheatley: who?
Merriweather: good, not great. Not the leader we all want him to be. Mass confusion in the secondary last night.
Pryor: I like the guy, but will he be any better than average?
Crable: child please
Wilhite: Ellis Hobbs without the KR abilities.

One of the best young defenseive players we got the past couple of years is Guyton...and he was undrafted. So, I give the nod to the scouting being worse than the coaching. They are picking the wrong horses.

Wow. I almost spat my coffee out until I realized you were being serious. What a freakin' joke.

I'm glad our resident armchair scout feels comfortable evaluating rookies halfway through their rookie season. Hell, if you were in charge, players like Samuel and Wilfork wouldn't have made it past their first year.

Anyway, I suspect you're wrong again here, just as you were wrong about Maroney. Small sample, but I'm sensing a trend developing.

 

[JackBauer]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

So you like the 1996 players better?

I'm shaking my head.

A common response when reading her posts, for sure.

I'm sure a spry Ted Johnson would look fantastic in today's NFL.

 

[b72s]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

I said in another thred we may be having a stagnant game plan as group think sets in.

Everyone trained by Belichick and cannot think outside the box or try something diffderent.

So the result is Belichick sprea thin between GM/Coach and coordinator with a bunch of yes men executing straight from Belicheck's orders rather than making input into the decision.

Really how can Belicheck make bot offensive and Defensive half time adjustments by himself???

PS Again OLB's stink Burgess, Cain and Guyton NO pressure at all.

 

[GostkowSKI]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

The thing that bugs me from last night is that I can't even begin to comprehend the defensive gameplan.

I think they were conceding 30 points by the Saints. You're asking a lot out of a defense if you're going to give receivers a cushion off the line, play both safeties 20 yards deep (most notably on the Pierre Thomas run in the first quarter) and can't get a pass run with your guys up front.

Vince's pre-game quote said it all - "If we don't get pressure on Brees then we're going to lose".

The defensive gameplan to me said "We'll accept giving up yardage underneath if we can contain the big plays, and maybe we get lucky and gets some pressure on Brees with the guys up front".

End result was they didn't get pressure on Brees, and they still couldn't contain the big play.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

It's not the coordinators. They don't blow coverage or get mauled by 3 and 4 man rushes. While some of that may be coaching related, that's on the position coaches. The coordinators here don't get to staff their units. Or select their talent. They inherit them and the system and the schemes.

The back 7 is young and light on veteran presence and experience. The front 4 can't generate consistent pressure. And blitzing roleplayers against a solid OL and a savvy passer with multiple consistent receivers is just an exercise in futility.

If I hear one more person say we have to involve Moss more I'm gonna puke. The only way to involve Moss productively and meaningfully is to first build an OL that can stand alone pass and run block consistently. Then either locate a functional alternate outside threat or re-establish the TE's as functioning pass catchers.

These are personnel issues, not game planning or playcalling issues. As presently constituted we are dependent on perfect execution from the cast at hand, which we aren't getting, or screw ups by opponents which you can never entirely count on and can't always seem to capitalize on. NO played mistake free football last night.

 

[Kontradiction]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

It's not the coordinators. They don't blow coverage or get mauled by 3 and 4 man rushes. While some of that may be coaching related, that's on the position coaches. The coordinators here don't get to staff their units. Or select their talent. They inherit them and the system and the schemes.

The back 7 is young and light on veteran presence and experience. The front 4 can't generate consistent pressure. And blitzing roleplayers against a solid OL and a savvy passer with multiple consistent receivers is just an exercise in futility.

If I hear one more person say we have to involve Moss more I'm gonna puke. The only way to involve Moss productively and meaningfully is to first build an OL that can stand alone pass and run block consistently. Then either locate a functional alternate outside threat or re-establish the TE's as functioning pass catchers.

These are personnel issues, not game planning or playcalling issues. As presently constituted we are dependent on perfect execution from the cast at hand, which we aren't getting, or screw ups by opponents which you can never entirely count on and can't always seem to capitalize on. NO played mistake free football last night.

Sadly, Michael Oher or Ryan Clady would have helped out in this area.

 

[Joker]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Brady had Moss wide open on the third series and didn't even see him...number one...Brady had a bad game...why can't anyone say that?...number two....THAT was the best team in the NFL AT HOME last night....time to move on from this and look to taking care of division business and actually WINNING a game on the road for the first time this season

 

[Garbanza]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Wow. I almost spat my coffee out until I realized you were being serious. What a freakin' joke.

I'm glad our resident armchair scout feels comfortable evaluating rookies halfway through their rookie season. Hell, if you were in charge, players like Samuel and Wilfork wouldn't have made it past their first year.

Anyway, I suspect you're wrong again here, just as you were wrong about Maroney. Small sample, but I'm sensing a trend developing.

Spit it out, spit it out!!

Sorry if I do not drink the koolaide everyone else is.

Mayo is very good and I truly beleive Butler is going to be very good. I love guyton. But really - Crable? Wilhite?

Sit back and be honest. With the exception of Mankins.....name a first or second rounder that has been truly impactful the past few years. BB and co.'s drafting in the early rounds isn't anything to write home about. Just isn't.

 

[JackBauer]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

Spit it out, spit it out!!

Sorry if I do not drink the koolaide everyone else is.

Mayo is very good and I truly beleive Butler is going to be very good. I love guyton. But really - Crable? Wilhite?

Sit back and be honest. With the exception of Mankins.....name a first or second rounder that has been truly impactful the past few years. BB and co.'s drafting in the early rounds isn't anything to write home about. Just isn't.

I think the jury is still out on Wilhite. People here have such short memories, and many were done with him after he "regressed" after his rookie campaign.

--Mayo
--Meriweather
--Maroney

That's one per year, and we'll see where Wheatley ends up.

 

[maverick4]

re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

It's not the coordinators. They don't blow coverage or get mauled by 3 and 4 man rushes. While some of that may be coaching related, that's on the position coaches. The coordinators here don't get to staff their units. Or select their talent. They inherit them and the system and the schemes.

These are personnel issues, not game planning or playcalling issues. As presently constituted we are dependent on perfect execution from the cast at hand, which we aren't getting, or screw ups by opponents which you can never entirely count on and can't always seem to capitalize on. NO played mistake free football last night.

Your last paragraph completely contradicts your entire post.

If you are relying on perfect execution in order to win, and blame the personnel for not executing, it's a SCHEME and PLAY CALLING issue.

The talent on this offense is way better than anything we won with from 01-04. The overall team talent is not worse than what we had in 03-04.

Look at the O-line we had from 01-04. Mostly castoffs and project-conversions.

The current O-line looks bad because it makes it so much easier for the defense when it KNOWS you are passing, which we telegraph when 75% of our passes are from shot gun.

Blaming the O-line personnel for protection issues, is as lazy as blaming Moss/Welker for not performing against a CRAPPY Saints secondary. Both were scheme/play-calling predictability issues, not personnel issues.