The official OC/DC are really bad thread [merged]

[maverick4]

I thought you were against using stats to make a point

When I call people like you stat whores, it doesn't mean I disvalue the use of stats to make a point. It means that people like you will make a MILLION excuses for failure so long as the stats are sexy. You may not be the extreme case, but we have people here trying to claim O'Brien is a good coordinator just because the Pats avg 27 points per game this year. This is all they care about, and they keep making excuses for why we can't get a key 1st down to close games, or why our 2nd half stats are so horrible.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

LOL Moving the goalposts again. If it works early or late it's BB and if it fails it's his idiot coordinators...

It's all Bill all the time here bucko, always has been and will be until at least the day after he leaves (and Kraft hopes for many years thereafter based on the organization he has built here and Kraft's long term goals for his franchise to remain consistently competitive).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When I call people like you stat whores, it doesn't mean I disvalue the use of stats to make a point. It means that people like you will make a MILLION excuses for failure so long as the stats are sexy. You may not be the extreme case, but we have people here trying to claim O'Brien is a good coordinator just because the Pats avg 27 points per game this year. This is all they care about, and they keep making excuses for why we can't get a key 1st down to close games, or why our 2nd half stats are so horrible.

We don't make excuses, we simply realize who and what are actually to blame.

 

[maverick4]

We don't make excuses, we simply realize who and what are actually to blame.

You get ridiculously anal anytime the team is criticized because you automatically take it as a direct attack on Belichick, which is ridiculous (but not surprising given your history of insanity on this board).

This type of thinking from you is as crazy as automatically assuming Bob Kraft is a bad owner during the Carroll era, or that he had some blame when the Video Witch Hunt happened.

Belichick is smart, but hardly the dictator where ALL credit and blame goes to him.

 

[maverick4]

We don't make excuses, we simply realize who and what are actually to blame.

For you EVERYTHING is always Belichick's fault or genius, which is completely absurd and unfair to the people who work under him.

 

[pwcoach]

Have to say this, with a tongue firmly in cheek of course, yes I'm a rookie...


What this team really needs is a really good, top of the line tight end. Next year we need to spend a first round pick...


Going away now, please continue with you normally scheduled diatribe.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

The first half stats are indicative of what this team's talent can do when put in position to succeed, and is more indicative of Belichick's pre-game input than anything else, based on the pre-game scouting and identifying how to initially play against an opponent.

The coordinators call the actual in-game plays and the longer the game goes on, their influence upon how the team performs increases.

This, I believe, is 100% correct.

 

[Joker]

Paralyzation by overanalyzation....move on...Miami is our ONLY priority now

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'm still wondering why Belichick wears a headset? Is it to call for food?

 

[eagle eye]

I'm still wondering why Belichick wears a headset? Is it to call for food?

I'm not sure actually since he spends most of his time going over things with players on the sideline.

See here.

Oh wait, that means he does actually involve himself in all facets of the game. Didn't somebody say he does not get involved during games?

 

[maverick4]

Oh wait, that means he does actually involve himself in all facets of the game. Didn't somebody say he does not get involved during games?

Of course he's involved in games. It doesn't mean the play calls are all him, as some keep suggesting.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Of course he's involved in games. It doesn't mean the play calls are all him, as some keep suggesting.

Wow ... I sense some morphage in the argument now ... there's a shift happening people.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'm not sure actually since he spends most of his time going over things with players on the sideline.

See here.

Oh wait, that means he does actually involve himself in all facets of the game. Didn't somebody say he does not get involved during games?

That's not fair ... you googled that ... it doesn't count.

 

[maverick4]

Wow ... I sense some morphage in the argument now

The clip of Belichick talking to specific players, doesn't really hurt my claim that the coordinators have much more influence on the play calls than you give them credit for. In fact I'd say it supports the argument more that the coordinators are more busy actually calling the game and Belichick is kind of free roaming.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Watching the Green Bay game tonight I was left wondering how we let Dom Capers leave and kept Dean Pees

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I think it's too simplistic to blame any 1-2 elements on our recent performances. I'm not a fan of either Pees or O'Brien, but I'm also a realist. After 8 years as a top contender, we've been raped at the coordinator position time and time again. If we get anyone that shows ANY ability at that level then they get picked up at years end, usually taking a few other assistants with them.

Hell, even mediocre talent like Mangini get swooped up. This leaves us we people like the one we got, who are novice (for this level), or young and inexperienced. The one thing we had during our SB run was consistancy at this position. We've lost that and it shows. That's a product of our success. The only other team that has had long time success (Indy) over the same strech had much more consistancy at this position. It just caught up to us this year. It's a product of success in this league.

Add to that a few other factors (some preventable, some not), and you have the recipe for what we are in the misdt of..... a sub-par year where if we make the playoff's, we are one and done at best. Some other important elements that can't be dismissed.

1) Defense - Young, inexperienced and leaderless. Yeah, we went from old to young and these guys show it. There certainly is talent out there in some of the young guys, but lets face it, these guys will struggle all year. There future has not arrived yet. Perhaps BB did it too drastically (all in one year), but it was a move that he had to make. You can't argue this.

2) Off-season moves - Galloway and that other clown didn't work out. hardly gambles since they had the pedigree's, but not having them leaves us with no #3, which really limits what this offense can do. Letting Gaff go, in hindsight, was not wise. Plus the Seymour trade.... we all know why we made it, and I still think in the end we'll be better for it, but this has really hurt this defense this year on the field and in the locker room.

3) Injuries - As always. We have some key ones that are really effecting the product on the field. This will always be the case and it is what it is here.

This is just a few issues out there, there are more.

So yeah, it's partly the coordinators.......... but there is a bunch of other stuff happening that's exposing the reality of success at this level.

 

[Kontradiction]

Watching the Green Bay game tonight I was left wondering how we let Dom Capers leave and kept Dean Pees

Two differences between Pees and Capers this year. Capers came in and inherited a good defense. Pees inherited a defense that is not so good this year. Even if Capers were the defensive coordinator this season, we would be seeing the same thing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Two differences between Pees and Capers this year. Capers came in and inherited a good defense. Pees inherited a defense that is not so good this year. Even if Capers were the defensive coordinator this season, we would be seeing the same thing.

Not 100% true, Kontra. The Pack's run D was awful last year. Coverage was spotty and their pass rush was in the bottom 1/4 of the league.

They drafted well and upgraded their personnel.

I think what happened was that if Pees got a HC gig, Capers would slide in as DC, when he didn't he obviously left for GB

 

[SVN]

i think capers and BB's scheme are different .BB wants to run his defense and pees will do it i think.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

^^ I think you have it right SVN. Capers probably thought the defense should be run differently and disagreed with BB. Pees probably said he agreed and would run it the way BB wanted to. The Packers have done a good job at getting pressure on opposing QBs even without Kampman.

The Packers were in the bottom half of the league last year in defense. They couldn't stop anyone. Capers has done a great job using the personnel he has and mixing it up. It's too bad he left, he seems like he knows what he's doing.