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The official OC/DC are really bad thread [merged]

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Please post your the OC or DC or both are really, really bad post on this thread.

    Just wanted to get this started so we don't have 10 threads on the same subject.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.


    So you're dropping a nut early nut?
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    I don't have a thread, but surely I'm one of the biggest Patriot optimists on this board...

    ...and I'm convinced both of these guys are pretty bad.
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    Weis and Crennel are both available.

    PLEASE Kraft/BB
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    O'Brien called a pretty terrible game tonight. I don't know if he will improve over time or not like Weis and McDaniels seemed to, but his future is not looking bright as of right now.

    As for the D, I'm not sure who to put the blame on for that. Many people have many different opinions. The fact is that we only have one playmaker in the LB corps and that is Mayo. His job doesn't call for him to pressure the QB much. Outside of him, the O-Line doesn't have to respect anybody else. Also, Seymour's trade in the offseason looked really noticeable tonight. We were completely incapable of generating a pass rush with our defensive line. We were also incapable of generating a rush with a blitz most of the time. I saw Pees try a lot of different things with the defense, it's just a simple fact that we don't have the players to make it work against an offense like the Saints. Hopefully, next year brings more changes to that unit.
  6. mcmurtry86

    mcmurtry86 Rookie

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    Never a Pees fan at all. Didn't like it when he got the gig in the first place.

    Not sure how much O'Brien does with the offense, I get the sense that BB does a lot of the OC duties himself.

    Belichick seems stretched too thin, I doubt Romeo or Charlie come back but man I miss those guys (even though they both served up the occasional stinker)
  7. parthasas

    parthasas Patriots Nation PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    Yes pleaseeeeeee ! this game is an eye opener and they both are available. BB/Kraft what else do you need. Get on the phone already !!
  8. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Rookie

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    Well, our offensive playcalling is confusing.
    We had a running game established right off the bat, and abandoned it.
    Our short yardage playcalling is pathetic. Every WR runs a crossing route, and for some reason they don't even run deep enough to get to the marker!
    We don't seem to have a mid range passing game. Tonight we had a couple pass plays over the middle that were nice, but on the whole, that aspect of our offense is sorely lacking.

    On defense, I'm really starting to wonder about our personnel choices. it's a passing league, but we lack playmakers to combat a passing offense. Non-existent pass rush, oversized LBs, undersized CBs with mediocre tackling skills and poor ball hawking skills. Our safeties seemed to have fallen in love with themselves, and are now being exposed for their inexperience.
  9. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    Can't fault Pees for tonight. Our safeties blew two TD throws tonight and Wilhite shouldn't be out there starting. That's Bill's call.

    O'Brien is another matter. Our second half offense is horrible. I can't even express how frustrating it is watching us come out of shotgun and run the same plays over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
  10. skinnydog

    skinnydog Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Well who were the OC and DC when we last won a Super Bowl?
  11. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    I figured there would be a lot of those posts so why not get it's own mega thread? :D
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread.

    :eat2: .......................
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I think we can say with absolute conviction that O'Brien is handling the majority of the offensive playcalling duties. The difference between 2007 and 2008 and this year in playcalling is pretty obvious. McDaniels was on his game before he left here, O'Brien is not.

    I cannot say for sure who handles the majority of the defensive calls. BB is a defensive mind and he obviously oversees everything, I just don't know (as a fan) how much he has his hand in the defense.
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Aren't there 10 posts already? Seriously, our coaching has been going downhill for years by design. It seems that Belichick just doesn't want top level support. This has been predictable since the Front Office decided that an OC was only worth $500K and no more. Charlie left and became a millionaire many time over.

    It's been a very, very long time since the patriots have had such poor coordinators. Now, there's a good discussion question. When was the last time our pair of coordinators were as bad as now. I think it is before Kraft owned the team.
  15. mcmurtry86

    mcmurtry86 Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Those two rather plump and jovial unemployed failed head coaches. Forget their names (;)), but they seemed to have known how to get the most out of their players.

    Hell, I'd settle for Mangini instead of Pees right now. I can't think of a single game off the top of my head where I thought to myself "now THAT was a good defensive gameplan" in the Pees era.
  16. vuudu

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I am now really beginning to wonder about the famous half time adjustments. What has happened to it? Is it that these set of players can't adjust or don't listen to the coaches, or....... is it just one too many changes in the coaching stuff? or is it lack of fresh ideas? Contradictory I know. WTF?
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  17. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I'm stuck in a quandary wondering whether it's coordinator problematic or personnel problematic. On offense our wide receiver core consists of Welker and Moss. The rest just aren't good enough to get it done. On defense, well we need some quality pass rushers, of which isn't news to most of us.
  18. mcmurtry86

    mcmurtry86 Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Belichick can't force guys to stay, his attitude has always been to let guys further their careers if they can (which is why he has never prevented them from interviewing for HC positions). You can't seriously think Weis and Crennel would have stayed for a big pay raise? Those guys wanted, and deserved head coaching jobs.

    The bigger problem IMO is the guys BB has selected to take over for Weis and Crennel. I know McDaniels gets a lot of love, but I was never that impressed with him (or maybe just bitter over his lack of adjustments in the Super Bowl). Mangini got the job too early, but did better than Pees IMO. Would like to see Belichick at least kick the tires on Groh (if he's available), Weis and Crennel. Inexperienced coordinators with a young inexperienced team (on defense) and a very complicated offensive scheme has been a bad mix.

    Question is, can BB admit his mistakes and move on from O'Brien and Pees. I'd be shocked if either of them was let go, which is a shame.
  19. mcmurtry86

    mcmurtry86 Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Mediocre coordinators and a lot of young inexperienced guys on defense.
  20. NickOGS20

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I really can't see any mid-season change (if there is to be one at all) so I fear all this is going to fall on deaf ears.
  21. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    Well, Pees gets no credit here because the Saints rolled in the 2nd half much like the first half.

    In contrast, the O came out and scored a TD on their first drive of the 2nd half, got gut-punched with a quick NO touchdown, then drove it down the field again. They sputtered in the red zone, unfortunately, and that's on the OC too, but at least they seemed to have SOMETHING going after the halftime adjustments. So maybe that's a hopeful sign.


    Yeah, I'm scraping the barrel here looking for something positive :)
  22. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    O'Brien is horrible, we sorely miss McDaniels. YOu can't have a rookie OC learning the ropes of the NFL in the middle of the season, you need an experienced guy calling the plays. Some of the decisions and playcalls this guy makes just boggle my mind. I do not want a rookie OC calling plays for us in the playoffs. Brady did not play well, but we have not performed well in the 2nd half of games on offense. That shows the inexperience of O'Brien and his inability to make good halftime adjustments.

    Pees and BB are both at fault for this horrific defensive performance. YOu can't sit back in a read and react, keep it in front of you, control the gaps defense and expect to win in this league anymore. This defense was great when the NFL was still run first but BB has got to change up his philosophy. The new NFL is all about defending the pass, and you don't defend the pass by dropping 7 or 8 guys into coverage everytime. You bring heat, mix up your blitzes, confuse the o-line, and attack. You can't sit back and give QB's time to survey the field, you have to pressure them and force them into quick decisions. No QB likes being hit. If you are going to sit back and play this passive defense you are going to get PICKED APART by good QB's. Manning had 300 yards on us, Brees almost 400, Flacco 265, even Kyle Orton 300. The defense looks good and works against guys like Sanchez and Edwards and Henne and Collins and Johnson because they are going to make mistakes and beat themselves. But against a team with a good QB, your team is going to get picked apart.

    Especially on 3rd downs. I hate when it's 3rd and 7 or more and we rush 4 guys and drop 7 and we give up a first down. Perfect example, 3rd and 5 Butler is playing 7 yards off the WR and the complete a short little 5 yard pass. What are you doing? Get up in the guys face and press him at the line.

    I'm sick of this two gap garbage. Let's start shooting some gaps and cause some chaos on defense, attack the other team, force the issue. As someone else smartly pointed out, we always think new blood coming in will solve our pass rushing issues (Adalius, Burgess, etc.) but they never do. BB and Pees just drop them into coverage. I just don't get what BB and Pees see in this style of defense. As the game changes, your schemes and system have to change too. There is a reason the Steelers and Ravens have been the best defenses over the last 10 years. They force the most turnovers and give up the least amount of YPG. Lebeau's defense and what was Ryan's defense up until this year come after you and attack you. Pressure is key. Look at the trouble we had in 07 vs the Ravens and their attacking style, we barely escaped that game. The Saints this year are comparable to our offense that year, so why not try to use the gameplan that was used against us and gave us trouble?
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  23. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I think the mediocrity of the coordinators is the biggest weakness on this team right now. Well, that and a pass rush.

    At any rate, both are mediocre and are doing BB no favours.

    I have zero faith that either can adjust positively at halftime and it's frustrating how predictable and futile the play calling gets when inside the red zone on both sides of the ball.
  24. mcmurtry86

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    It's remarkable how bad the red-zone playcalling - usually a strength for the BB Pats - has been on both sides of the ball. Watson or Baker (is he dead?) should be useful targets down inside the 20. Instead we get forced throws to Moss and 2 yard checkdowns to Welker and Faulk. The lack of confidence in the TE's (by Brady? BB? O'Brien?) and the lack of another outside WR really hurt the team.
  25. SVN

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    one thing about pees..he doesnt have vrabel,bruschi,seymour,harrison,ty law to name a few in their primes. Can fault the DC all you want but we just dont have good players. Just avg players who can work against avg teams.
    The parity in the league allows us to win these 7 games otherwise we just are a good team only on basis of BB's name and history.
  26. JFK

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    our OC is bad but Pees is fine with me.

    We just lack defensive talent. AD, Burgess, & Woods don't get it done yet Banta Cain does...Can't blame Pees.
    Bodden gets it done..WIlhite/Springs don't...
    We need to use our 2011 1st round picks to get whoever we need right now cos we can't wait till 2011. Moss and Brady are getting up there and our best defensive players are about th hit their peak. Lets get the best out of them.
  27. patsfan-1982

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    its not the OC or the DC's fault

    its the D has no passrush even when they blitz they cant get to the QB


    the saints where geting to brady with 3 and 4 guy's and when the WR did get the ball the saints hit them hard

    let's face it the pats turned in to the colts from a few year's ago they are soft they are a finesse team on O

    and the saints had a good game plan they where not going to let moss beat them and if you can take away moss the pats are not the same team

    maroney could of had a 150 yerd's if they give him the ball more

    but that's not who the pats are they live and die with the pass

    but the way the saints where playing tonight noting would have helped the pats

    i mean the pats pulled the starter's out with 6 min left so the sanits can stop scoreing on them it was that kind of a night for the pats the pats just cant hang with a good team
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  28. BradyFTW!

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    As someone who refrained from attacking either of them in the past, I'll go out on a limb and say that BOB truly sucks. There was no reason at all to go empty backfield at the beginning of the second possession. I'm still not sold that Pees is garbage, although I wouldn't mind him being replaced either.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  29. BionicPatriot

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    I hate Pees as much as the next sensible guy.

    For offense though, Koppen single handily killed them tonight. He is terrible, this team needs a real center. Absolutely ridiculous watching this man play, and I mean that in a bad way
  30. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    re: The official OC/DC are really bad thread ( merged)

    How is that not the OC's fault? A good team is flexible enough to win in whatever way it has to.
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