The official Brandon Meriweather is a bust thread

[Lockdown06]

Meriweather isn't a bust (at least not yet). He is definitely a disapointment. He played one defensive snap vs. Indy and not much more the week before against Washington. The only time he has stood out on the field in a month was when Cooley burnt him for a TD.

You can't give up on the guy yet, but you can be very disapointed with his production so far. No excuses for the guy. A first round pick should be producing more than he does. It doesn't mean that he won't be a solid starter at some point.

although i'm not a big-time poster here and my arguments might not carry the weight of some of the more regular and probably more knowledgeable posters on this board, i don't see how you can call ANY player a bust based on a 9 game sample size.

Secondly, I really don't think you can use the colts game in your argument about Meriweather not playing well enough to get playing time - the patriots were in a specialized defense for the grand majority of the game - Adalius Thomas, who I hope everyone recognizes as a FANTASTIC player, played something like 5 snaps the entire game - Meriweather simply wasn't involved in that base specialized defense we used to neutralize Clark.

 

[Rob0729]

although i'm not a big-time poster here and my arguments might not carry the weight of some of the more regular and probably more knowledgeable posters on this board, i don't see how you can call ANY player a bust based on a 9 game sample size.

Secondly, I really don't think you can use the colts game in your argument about Meriweather not playing well enough to get playing time - the patriots were in a specialized defense for the grand majority of the game - Adalius Thomas, who I hope everyone recognizes as a FANTASTIC player, played something like 5 snaps the entire game - Meriweather simply wasn't involved in that base specialized defense we used to neutralize Clark.

Rasad Baker played far more than Meriweather in the game. In fact, Meriweather didn't get more than mop up duting vs. the Redskins and we were destroying them all game. The one snap at Indy is the worst case example for Meriweather, but we have watched his playing time and depth chart position sink consistently all year long. That is a trend.

I am not saying he is a bust, but I don't know how you can label him anything but a disapointment at this point. Some disapointments turn into star players, but others turn into outright busts.

 

[Lockdown06]

Rasad Baker played far more than Meriweather in the game. In fact, Meriweather didn't get more than mop up duting vs. the Redskins and we were destroying them all game. The one snap at Indy is the worst case example for Meriweather, but we have watched his playing time and depth chart position sink consistently all year long. That is a trend.

I am not saying he is a bust, but I don't know how you can label him anything but a disapointment at this point. Some disapointments turn into star players, but others turn into outright busts.

this is just my personal philosophy, but i refuse to label draft picks as ANYTHING (star player or disappointment) after such a short amount of time - i think the offseason and next year will be much more revealing into whether meriweather is a disappointment or not - for example will we try and resign eugene wilson? that might give us an idea of what belichick is thinking.

Also, although i don't have the link, pro football weekly (www.profootballweekly.com) mentioned in their audibles section a little while ago that Meriweather has been dealing with injuries lately - that could be playing a factor in his limited playing time.

 

[patsox23]

Michael Irvin took FOUR YEARS to become "Michael Irvin." Not saying any of these guys will become a hall of famer, just pointing out that some players take longer to get involved and/or develop than others.

Patience and maturity would be nice to see out of posters like Danny88, but I'm not sure we should bank on it.

 

[Rob0729]

this is just my personal philosophy, but i refuse to label draft picks as ANYTHING (star player or disappointment) after such a short amount of time - i think the offseason and next year will be much more revealing into whether meriweather is a disappointment or not - for example will we try and resign eugene wilson? that might give us an idea of what belichick is thinking.

Also, although i don't have the link, pro football weekly (www.profootballweekly.com) mentioned in their audibles section a little while ago that Meriweather has been dealing with injuries lately - that could be playing a factor in his limited playing time.

I didn't see the PFW article. I know it was mentioned in an article about re-examining last year's draft. Maybe PFW picked that up. I haven't heard one local writer even mention a Meriweather injury or have him appear on injury reports. PFW also mentioned that Seymour would be back for the start of the season too. I don't know how good their information is some of the time.

As for judging Meriweather whether they keep Wilson or not, I don't think that is a good litimous test. Wilson has started to show he may be too injury prone. The Pats may be hesistant to give him much money at all at this point. Unless Meriweather gets more playing time during the rest of the season, the decision to keep Wilson will be independent from how they feel about Meriweather.

I'm sorry, we are more than half way through the season. Meriweather as a first round pick should be contributing more than on special teams. As a first round pick, Baker shouldn't be higher than him on the depth chart.

 

[Lockdown06]

I didn't see the PFW article. I know it was mentioned in an article about re-examining last year's draft. Maybe PFW picked that up. I haven't heard one local writer even mention a Meriweather injury or have him appear on injury reports. PFW also mentioned that Seymour would be back for the start of the season too. I don't know how good their information is some of the time.

As for judging Meriweather whether they keep Wilson or not, I don't think that is a good litimous test. Wilson has started to show he may be too injury prone. The Pats may be hesistant to give him much money at all at this point. Unless Meriweather gets more playing time during the rest of the season, the decision to keep Wilson will be independent from how they feel about Meriweather.

I'm sorry, we are more than half way through the season. Meriweather as a first round pick should be contributing more than on special teams. As a first round pick, Baker shouldn't be higher than him on the depth chart.

First off, I'm not trying to say that I'm glad meriweather is getting so little playing time - I want to see him out there for more plays just like you do - I just can't reasonably expect him to crack our starting lineup his first year given the bevy of talent we have right now at the safety position.

also, forgive me if this is incorrect, but I believe that Baker was brought in along with Mel Mitchell to be a special teams ace, so it doesnt surprise me that he's contributing more on special teams than meriweather is.

Also, if you're referring to Baker playing more vs. indianapolis than meriweather, again while we don't know for sure thanks to BB's secrecy, it could very well be due to injury.

 

[danny88]

First off, I'm not trying to say that I'm glad meriweather is getting so little playing time - I want to see him out there for more plays just like you do - I just can't reasonably expect him to crack our starting lineup his first year given the bevy of talent we have right now at the safety position.

also, forgive me if this is incorrect, but I believe that Baker was brought in along with Mel Mitchell to be a special teams ace, so it doesnt surprise me that he's contributing more on special teams than meriweather is.

Also, if you're referring to Baker playing more vs. indianapolis than meriweather, again while we don't know for sure thanks to BB's secrecy, it could very well be due to injury.

Bevy of talent? Oh brother. THIS IS A FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICE.

 

[Oswlek]

Rasad Baker played far more than Meriweather in the game. In fact, Meriweather didn't get more than mop up duting vs. the Redskins and we were destroying them all game. The one snap at Indy is the worst case example for Meriweather, but we have watched his playing time and depth chart position sink consistently all year long. That is a trend.

I am not saying he is a bust, but I don't know how you can label him anything but a disapointment at this point. Some disapointments turn into star players, but others turn into outright busts.

Precisely. Baker has been with the team longer and was more likely to adapt to the specialized defense better. People keep bringing up Baker's name but no one has proven that he isn't a decent player. BB values guys knowing precisely what they are doing and Baker is more likely to do that at this moment.

 

[Joker]

Meriweather a bust???

he's a rookie fer chrissakes

 

[patsox23]

Meriweather a bust???

he's a rookie fer chrissakes

Joker, you have to understand - the mods here, more focused on revenge against an old man than actually, you know, MAINTAINING STANDARDS, don't mind letting the newbie chicken littles run wild with the site. Ian might want to get a bit more involved and the site will rise up to its formerly lofty heights.

 

[Lockdown06]

Bevy of talent? Oh brother. THIS IS A FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICE.

yeah, he's a first round draft choice playing behind rodney harrison, james sanders, eugene wilson and rashad baker

those guys aren't exactly terrible, and they have a lot of experience in the patriots defensive schemes

 

[shakadave]

Unless he's had a career ending injury, I have to agree with RayClay on the thread title. You're evaluating a guy after 1/2 season of more spec. team work than secondary work?!?!?!?!

Are you guys on crack? Why does this thread exist?

PFnV

I agree too. See post #45.

I have to admit, I'm now watching the life of this thread with a morbid fascination. Bostonian, your bump was hilarious!

 

[danny88]

yeah, he's a first round draft choice playing behind rodney harrison, james sanders, eugene wilson and rashad baker

those guys aren't exactly terrible, and they have a lot of experience in the patriots defensive schemes

Our number one draft choice should be above Rashad Baker in the depth chart by week nine.

 

[Lockdown06]

Our number one draft choice should be above Rashad Baker in the depth chart by week nine.

actually i just checked up on their stats according to espn

and meriweather has 5 more tackles in Baker in apparently less playing time

so that should count for something

 

[mb6592]

I'm going to be politically incorrect.

I'm not declaring him a bust, but Meriweather is on the fast track to becoming one.

There's some holes in some of the arguments I'm hearing.

"This, that, and so-and-so did nothing in their rookie years."

Wilson was starting at FS in 2003. Asante played in dime and nickel packages that same year. Warren and Wilfork are DLs and rookie DLs have a longer adjustment period than DBs. That said, Warren and Wilfork played meaningful minutes with the regular D. They weren't as good as they are now, but they weren't clueless either. Sanders was seeing quality time with the regular D in his rookie year before getting injured in 2005. Watson sucked when he was asked to carry too much of the burden. Yet, even Watson showed flashes in his rookie season before getting hurt, and he joined the team after a lengthy holdout.

So far, Meriweather hasn't appeared in any injury reports, hasn't shown any flashes of ability, hasn't had more than cameos with the regular D, and came to camp on time.

"Meriweather is playing behind a talented group."

Oh really? Rashod Baker is talented, who would have guessed? Wilson has missed games (currently injured), RH has been suspended, and Meriweather's PT is decreasing. According to Reiss, Meriweather played only one snap. The Pats rather have two SS-types, plus Baker rather than play their #1 pick in a week 9 game against the speedy Colts. But hey, Meriweather needs time.

Every first round DB has started and played significant time with the regular D. Not Meriweather. But hey, how dare I judge!

There are only two mid to high picks that made a poor 1st impression: Guss Scott and Dexter Reid. Foulweather makes strike #3.

Here's my theory:

Seattle screwed us by eeking out Ws, which push the pick to 24. The team knew it was a strong draft for DBs and sat on their hands expecting a quality DB to fall to them. When the run on DBs hit the top 20, the Pats took what they felt as the best of the rest in a weak remaining draft.

At the time, Asante was promising to hold out 'til week 10, Wilson was coming off two years of injuries, and both he and Gay were on the final year of their deals. The Pats were desperate for young secondary talent.

Hopefully, SF will continue to stink and we can get South FLA's Michael Jenkins. I doubt the team will count on Meriweather to fill the void if Wilson leaves or RH gets hurt. Since Wilson's market value is low right now, I like the team's chances of re-signing him.

Why all the hosility to this poster? Some fairly well thought out points are made and he gets back bile? WTF? Circumstantial, anecdotal - this is football we're talking about? Right? Something in the water today, people have simply lost their minds, thats how many people are - I wish most posts were so well documented. Very interesting read, even though I may not share posters opinion.

 

[Rob0729]

First off, I'm not trying to say that I'm glad meriweather is getting so little playing time - I want to see him out there for more plays just like you do - I just can't reasonably expect him to crack our starting lineup his first year given the bevy of talent we have right now at the safety position.

also, forgive me if this is incorrect, but I believe that Baker was brought in along with Mel Mitchell to be a special teams ace, so it doesnt surprise me that he's contributing more on special teams than meriweather is.

Also, if you're referring to Baker playing more vs. indianapolis than meriweather, again while we don't know for sure thanks to BB's secrecy, it could very well be due to injury.

I never said I expected Meriweather to start, but I would expect him to get time in the nickel and dime and not just mop up duty. Baker is getting more playing time than him on defense, not special teams. It has happened in the two games that Baker has been back from injury.

I don't know why Belichick would hide an injury with Meriweather who rarely sees the field and have AD on the injury report when rumors of injuries slowing him down too. I don't think Belichick plays games with back up players, just the starters.

 

[mb6592]

Meriweather has looked okay to me. In the beginning of the year he was on the field in dime situations a lot, and he's on at least a couple of the coverage teams now. Look, we know the guy is a great athlete and we've seen him in preseason make some nice, sure tackles. Not everyone can be Asante or Wilson and just come into the league and do well as a DB. It's early to freak out.

The Pats may also have overplayed their hand with this kid by trying to make him into a corner early in camp. Having to go back to being a safety may have slowed him down. We have to take that into consideration.

For my part I still think Chad Jackson is going to be a good player. Not sure about Maroney. But looking back, rookies take different amounts of time to pan out. Wilfork struggled at first, as did Warren. Watson was hurt and then took a while to be productive. Graham never really blossomed but did eventually become a productive player -- and that took a while.

I do agree that it's too bad that Brandon didn't come in and just blow everyone away. The one thing that's holding the Pats back is the lack of an uber-fast, punishing, playmaking DB in the backfield. Excepting Asante, all of our guys back there are just serviceable, and Asante's value is limited to a guy who breaks on the ball well -- he doesn't light guys up in the backfield or fill the alley well or erase big receivers in the end zone. It'd be nice to have someone like that back there, someone like Kerry Rhodes or Ed Reed who causes a few extra turnovers a year with big hits.

Agreed, excellent post.

 

[Oswlek]

Why all the hosility to this poster? Some fairly well thought out points are made and he gets back bile? WTF? Circumstantial, anecdotal - this is football we're talking about? Right? Something in the water today, people have simply lost their minds, thats how many people are - I wish most posts were so well documented. Very interesting read, even though I may not share posters opinion.

Where was the hostility in my post that refers to his "circumstancial" and "anecdotal" points.

I thought that I was very clear in that one could very easily conclude something completely different from the same data. Anecdotal is a completely accurate description of much of what he said, although it doesn't prove him wrong - which I also said.

BTW, you mocking my use of those words is just as silly as any hostility that he incurred.

 

[Rob0729]

Precisely. Baker has been with the team longer and was more likely to adapt to the specialized defense better. People keep bringing up Baker's name but no one has proven that he isn't a decent player. BB values guys knowing precisely what they are doing and Baker is more likely to do that at this moment.

Again, we are talking about playing time when we were up 45-0 against Washington though.

I'm sorry, but people are making too many excuses for Meriweather. Even Warren, who didn't have a great rookie season, started four games and was a rotated in and out quite a bit. It is ok to accept the guy has been a disapointment thus far. It doesn't mean he is going to be a bust, but it does mean he is significantly behind where he should be at this point in his career. He can rebound and become a great player, but he is off to a slow start.

 

[mb6592]

Joker, you have to understand - the mods here, more focused on revenge against an old man than actually, you know, MAINTAINING STANDARDS, don't mind letting the newbie chicken littles run wild with the site. Ian might want to get a bit more involved and the site will rise up to its formerly lofty heights.

You're kidding right?