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QB/PTP thread
Ill use this thread to talk about QB's and who might be a fit for us.
Tier 1 (RD1 top 10-15)
Caleb Williams
Drake Maye
Tier 1B (RD1)
Jayden Daniels
JJ McCarthy
Michael Penix Jr
Tier 2 (early RD2 possible pick 30-32)
Michael Penix Jr
Bo Nix
Tier 3 (RD3)
Michael Pratt
Spencer Rattler
Cam Ward
Tier 4 (RD6-UDFA)
Joe Milton
Jordan Travis
Kedon Slovis
Taulia Tagovailoa
Sam Hartman
(I will definitely add more names but it's a very thin class after the big 4-5)
I always evaluate QB's last but Ive seen enough of these guys over the years. So let's start with Michael Penix Jr since he's a hot name. Deservedly so! And take a hard look at Penix Jr. His game and how it might translate to the next level.
It's hard not to root for a guy like Penix Jr. Been through it and back and around again. Big armed passer, at times thrower (Throwing to a spot rather then passing to a player). From Florida, coming in at 6'3/215 ish. Wasn't the biggest name coming out of HS. 3* that eventually landed at Indiana after decommitting from Tenn. From there it's been up & down, good & bad with some bad luck in the injury department. ACL, AC Joint/Shoulder, ACL (same knee), Shoulder injuries with many other bumps along the way. Plenty of prospects have said "enough is enough" in his situation but he's going until the wheels fall off.
He's had the ability to manipulate a pocket and improve his situation there long before he popped into the spotlight but has been inconsistent when moved off his spot at times (right). Hes got a funky delivery that can get messy when sped up. Very heady though, always has a clock going. Doesn't take many bad sacks or panic but his footwork could tighten on some of his drops. Cleaner the pocket the better. He can slide, step up and has a fearless attitude. He'll navigate and cruise through waves of bodies but accuracy can slip with bodies on floor close by. Still his focus, movements and poise moving around, buying time are pro-like and what you look for.
Mechanics arent ideal or what you would "want" to see but it works. He's an ugly shooter but tosses darts and ropes across the field with plus velocity. Again he touches the pedal and straight gas shoots out. Think Dirk, Reggie even Cartwright back in the day. It's ugly but it works. At times too much arm in his passes, shoots from the hip, footwork is mostly good but he gets messy when he's moved at times. It works though. His release is very quick though. That's a question with him. Can he deliver consistently when he'll be forced to get the ball out quick on the regular. And he will at the next level. I mean his delivery could be tighten up some but for now it works. It's a 3/4 from the hip so obviously could be more efficient but at the same time he'll be a 24 yo rookie. All that said his "arm" or "arm talent" is petty fuxkin awesome. Even among NFL players. It's up there. And he's got some lower body explosion as well. Might not look like the most athletic guy but he'll jump almost 40 (37/38) inches and can absolutely take advantage of grass the defense can't cover or if he has to scramble. He's a gamer but has some actual athleticism too.
One of the better deep ball passers in the game. He's accurate, throws with placement and touch. It's his best asset out of his bag and in a lot of ways is built for what the NFL has become. Between his leadership, skill-set and IQ he has the ability to lead a serious vertical passing attack to stress any defense if complemented with a set table.
I've seen him recognize different blitzes from different players at different times in different games from second level. Poised and always moving. Aware stays steady and alert. Looks off defenders, pumps to move them, leads his wr and is consistently on time. In his passes and in the pocket. IQ and instincts look NFL starter caliber.
Doesn't fumble or take sacks. Some not so good INT but every young QB has them.
Can work all 3 levels of the field but has yet to showcase he can really do it consistently while be pressured.
Don't know many starting NFL QB's with 3 torn ACL's. He's already walking through a minefield on 2. "Every snap could be your last" ... not really with today's medicine and science but Penix probably can't handle any more knee injuries or lower body injuries considering the effects they can have to other parts of the body.
Ok so I went over some of the good, some of the concerns etc .. Let's look at what it means if we do draft him. And what we'd have to do to make it work.
If you draft Penix Jr you have to make sure the "table is set" for him. That sounds obvious enough but Im talking from ownership to installing a system like hes in now (air raid that'll have to be tweaked some for the next level but is very attainable with some effort) to guys like Odunze, Polk etc that can avg 17 + per rec, make it happen in the end zone and most importantly run crisp efficient routes.
Ownership - Patience is key in any of these situations as everyone that pays attention knows but it absolutely starts at the top. If you draft Penix a lot of things will need to change. From the install to personnel. Likely coaching changes or major adjustments. I'm not getting into what we've seen and come to expect here. Needless to say that would be a big change in philosophy if you go all in on MPJ. You'll need an owner that set the tone and allow the process to happen and not have coaches looking over the shoulders. Set expectations but patience is key.
Coaching - I touched on coaching, it starts with DeBoer. Hes not at Clemson or Bama or UG. Hes doing this at Washington. If they win tn they should start building a statue but it's far from just him. The OL has been absolutely tremendous in not giving up pressure and giving MPJ a nice pocket to work in. Pass pro would be key for obvious reasons - you're living & dying off big plays downfield. DeBoer has been brilliant and deserves a ton of recognition but guys like Scott Huff and JaMarcus Shepherd deserve looks for bigger spots themselves. The OL is arguably the best in football and won the Joe Moore award for best blocking unit in the country. The huskies wrs run specific efficient routes with little error. I would absolutely look at Shepherd if I was in the market for a wr coach. He's from the Mike Leach tree and really helped Purdue take a jump to the 5th passing offense during "covid." He's got experience, production and lives in the detail.
Personnel - Washington will have multiple top 30-60 picks this year, on both sides and will next year too. Everyone knows Odunze and how special he's been but Polk has a rep there as a big time player. That wr trio is NFL caliber and will all be playing on Sunday or get a real shot. The OL has multiple NFL prospects playing and again the defense has names too. This is an incredibly talented squad. It's hardly Penix or bust. So you'll need to replicate those skill-sets. Deep threats that can win down field. Alpha like Odunze that can win over the middle, down field, plus body control and tracking ability helps. You'll need guys that can work the curl/flat area and give you some YAC there. A true Y seam buster. And efficient rb that can block.
Washington's offensive attack is built on going all in on the passing attack almost abandoning the run game. Old school Texas Tech territory. And this "scheme" or "design" or we you want to call it wasn't just cooked up in an offseason. DeBoer has experience with Penix dating back to Indiana and has been developing with other coaches like Grubb during different stops along the way. So this won't be switching some papers and plays and just "we're running this now." You'll go through through rough stretches bc you're living off big plays. Youll have "streaky" stretches. You'll need an understanding that this will take time.
Washington's offense takes the best of AR - horizontally attacking the overhang defenders stretching olb or compromising corners with hi/lows to the boundary when most run it to the mof. While a lot of programs have the wrs try to manipulate defenders Washington's wrs simply play to space/attack leverage - as much as possible on vertical shots. The incorporate tes but probably should actually utilize them more for balance but when you have a trio like they do why bother. Another thing worth mentioning again is the protection. Penix often put his body into passes and wasn't touched. Given space to use. That'll change next level considering the complexity of pressure designs, coverages and the talent level. Can he consistently deliver when his OL is operating full tilt? Comebacks in bad weather when he needs to get the ball out quick? His release is dynamite but getting there takes time. When pressured consistently he sstruggled and his cmp% dipped 15% during a good stretch this year. Big time throws stayed the same but there was a lot of "shot taking" to space with 1v1 to WRS when you had other spaces available for yards as well. Again comes with the territory living off the deep ball.
So what type of team do you have? Whats your coaching like? What type of weapons do you have? Is there patient to build or are you in win-now mode with everything set up save a QB with a big arm? MPJ brings a lot to the table but you have to commit around him from A-Z and truly go all-in.
NFL passes are plenty
https://twitter.com/uSTADIUM/status/1742014531407163623?t=yFy-bUiAjzmZ2XRmZF5hhQ&s=19
Next up Drake Maye
Ill use this thread to talk about QB's and who might be a fit for us.
Tier 1 (RD1 top 10-15)
Caleb Williams
Drake Maye
Tier 1B (RD1)
Jayden Daniels
JJ McCarthy
Michael Penix Jr
Tier 2 (early RD2 possible pick 30-32)
Michael Penix Jr
Bo Nix
Tier 3 (RD3)
Michael Pratt
Spencer Rattler
Cam Ward
Tier 4 (RD6-UDFA)
Joe Milton
Jordan Travis
Kedon Slovis
Taulia Tagovailoa
Sam Hartman
(I will definitely add more names but it's a very thin class after the big 4-5)
I always evaluate QB's last but Ive seen enough of these guys over the years. So let's start with Michael Penix Jr since he's a hot name. Deservedly so! And take a hard look at Penix Jr. His game and how it might translate to the next level.
It's hard not to root for a guy like Penix Jr. Been through it and back and around again. Big armed passer, at times thrower (Throwing to a spot rather then passing to a player). From Florida, coming in at 6'3/215 ish. Wasn't the biggest name coming out of HS. 3* that eventually landed at Indiana after decommitting from Tenn. From there it's been up & down, good & bad with some bad luck in the injury department. ACL, AC Joint/Shoulder, ACL (same knee), Shoulder injuries with many other bumps along the way. Plenty of prospects have said "enough is enough" in his situation but he's going until the wheels fall off.
He's had the ability to manipulate a pocket and improve his situation there long before he popped into the spotlight but has been inconsistent when moved off his spot at times (right). Hes got a funky delivery that can get messy when sped up. Very heady though, always has a clock going. Doesn't take many bad sacks or panic but his footwork could tighten on some of his drops. Cleaner the pocket the better. He can slide, step up and has a fearless attitude. He'll navigate and cruise through waves of bodies but accuracy can slip with bodies on floor close by. Still his focus, movements and poise moving around, buying time are pro-like and what you look for.
Mechanics arent ideal or what you would "want" to see but it works. He's an ugly shooter but tosses darts and ropes across the field with plus velocity. Again he touches the pedal and straight gas shoots out. Think Dirk, Reggie even Cartwright back in the day. It's ugly but it works. At times too much arm in his passes, shoots from the hip, footwork is mostly good but he gets messy when he's moved at times. It works though. His release is very quick though. That's a question with him. Can he deliver consistently when he'll be forced to get the ball out quick on the regular. And he will at the next level. I mean his delivery could be tighten up some but for now it works. It's a 3/4 from the hip so obviously could be more efficient but at the same time he'll be a 24 yo rookie. All that said his "arm" or "arm talent" is petty fuxkin awesome. Even among NFL players. It's up there. And he's got some lower body explosion as well. Might not look like the most athletic guy but he'll jump almost 40 (37/38) inches and can absolutely take advantage of grass the defense can't cover or if he has to scramble. He's a gamer but has some actual athleticism too.
One of the better deep ball passers in the game. He's accurate, throws with placement and touch. It's his best asset out of his bag and in a lot of ways is built for what the NFL has become. Between his leadership, skill-set and IQ he has the ability to lead a serious vertical passing attack to stress any defense if complemented with a set table.
I've seen him recognize different blitzes from different players at different times in different games from second level. Poised and always moving. Aware stays steady and alert. Looks off defenders, pumps to move them, leads his wr and is consistently on time. In his passes and in the pocket. IQ and instincts look NFL starter caliber.
Doesn't fumble or take sacks. Some not so good INT but every young QB has them.
Can work all 3 levels of the field but has yet to showcase he can really do it consistently while be pressured.
Don't know many starting NFL QB's with 3 torn ACL's. He's already walking through a minefield on 2. "Every snap could be your last" ... not really with today's medicine and science but Penix probably can't handle any more knee injuries or lower body injuries considering the effects they can have to other parts of the body.
Ok so I went over some of the good, some of the concerns etc .. Let's look at what it means if we do draft him. And what we'd have to do to make it work.
If you draft Penix Jr you have to make sure the "table is set" for him. That sounds obvious enough but Im talking from ownership to installing a system like hes in now (air raid that'll have to be tweaked some for the next level but is very attainable with some effort) to guys like Odunze, Polk etc that can avg 17 + per rec, make it happen in the end zone and most importantly run crisp efficient routes.
Ownership - Patience is key in any of these situations as everyone that pays attention knows but it absolutely starts at the top. If you draft Penix a lot of things will need to change. From the install to personnel. Likely coaching changes or major adjustments. I'm not getting into what we've seen and come to expect here. Needless to say that would be a big change in philosophy if you go all in on MPJ. You'll need an owner that set the tone and allow the process to happen and not have coaches looking over the shoulders. Set expectations but patience is key.
Coaching - I touched on coaching, it starts with DeBoer. Hes not at Clemson or Bama or UG. Hes doing this at Washington. If they win tn they should start building a statue but it's far from just him. The OL has been absolutely tremendous in not giving up pressure and giving MPJ a nice pocket to work in. Pass pro would be key for obvious reasons - you're living & dying off big plays downfield. DeBoer has been brilliant and deserves a ton of recognition but guys like Scott Huff and JaMarcus Shepherd deserve looks for bigger spots themselves. The OL is arguably the best in football and won the Joe Moore award for best blocking unit in the country. The huskies wrs run specific efficient routes with little error. I would absolutely look at Shepherd if I was in the market for a wr coach. He's from the Mike Leach tree and really helped Purdue take a jump to the 5th passing offense during "covid." He's got experience, production and lives in the detail.
Personnel - Washington will have multiple top 30-60 picks this year, on both sides and will next year too. Everyone knows Odunze and how special he's been but Polk has a rep there as a big time player. That wr trio is NFL caliber and will all be playing on Sunday or get a real shot. The OL has multiple NFL prospects playing and again the defense has names too. This is an incredibly talented squad. It's hardly Penix or bust. So you'll need to replicate those skill-sets. Deep threats that can win down field. Alpha like Odunze that can win over the middle, down field, plus body control and tracking ability helps. You'll need guys that can work the curl/flat area and give you some YAC there. A true Y seam buster. And efficient rb that can block.
Washington's offensive attack is built on going all in on the passing attack almost abandoning the run game. Old school Texas Tech territory. And this "scheme" or "design" or we you want to call it wasn't just cooked up in an offseason. DeBoer has experience with Penix dating back to Indiana and has been developing with other coaches like Grubb during different stops along the way. So this won't be switching some papers and plays and just "we're running this now." You'll go through through rough stretches bc you're living off big plays. Youll have "streaky" stretches. You'll need an understanding that this will take time.
Washington's offense takes the best of AR - horizontally attacking the overhang defenders stretching olb or compromising corners with hi/lows to the boundary when most run it to the mof. While a lot of programs have the wrs try to manipulate defenders Washington's wrs simply play to space/attack leverage - as much as possible on vertical shots. The incorporate tes but probably should actually utilize them more for balance but when you have a trio like they do why bother. Another thing worth mentioning again is the protection. Penix often put his body into passes and wasn't touched. Given space to use. That'll change next level considering the complexity of pressure designs, coverages and the talent level. Can he consistently deliver when his OL is operating full tilt? Comebacks in bad weather when he needs to get the ball out quick? His release is dynamite but getting there takes time. When pressured consistently he sstruggled and his cmp% dipped 15% during a good stretch this year. Big time throws stayed the same but there was a lot of "shot taking" to space with 1v1 to WRS when you had other spaces available for yards as well. Again comes with the territory living off the deep ball.
So what type of team do you have? Whats your coaching like? What type of weapons do you have? Is there patient to build or are you in win-now mode with everything set up save a QB with a big arm? MPJ brings a lot to the table but you have to commit around him from A-Z and truly go all-in.
NFL passes are plenty
https://twitter.com/uSTADIUM/status/1742014531407163623?t=yFy-bUiAjzmZ2XRmZF5hhQ&s=19
Next up Drake Maye
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