the BEST patriot player in our history ?

[nescott]

John Hanna for now but in 10 years Brady hands down

 

[RayClay]

John Hanna for now but in 10 years Brady hands down

I can retire now.

You won't find a bigger Brady backer than me, but why ask the question if we're only allowed one possible answer?

 

[PATSNUTme]

First, you would have to exclude anyone who played before the merger. That was a different era of pro football.

The greatest player rises to the occasion when it's all on the line. Hannah was great but the Bear defense went right through him.

There is only one guy who showed his greatness when everything was on the line and he did it three times.

That person is Tom Brady.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

1.) Brady
2.) Hannah
3.) Haynes
4.) Tippett

 

[RayClay]

First, you would have to exclude anyone who played before the merger. That was a different era of pro football.

The greatest player rises to the occasion when it's all on the line. Hannah was great but the Bear defense went right through him.

There is only one guy who showed his greatness when everything was on the line and he did it three times.

That person is Tom Brady.

No Houston Antwine?

 

[QuiGon]

very difficult / impossible question but...it is may...

who is for you my friends the BEST patriot player in our history ?

i think there are many candidates but probably could be Tom Brady ?

John Hannah ?

yr opinion ?

I vote for Hog Hannah. My opinion is that we have to go with what the player has done - we cannot look at potential. So Tom Brady remains a 5 year player who may one day become the greatest Patriots who ever played 9as well as maybe become the greatest QB who ever played). But as things currently stand, Hog Hannah is the man.

 

[NE39]

Hannah is arguably the best ever at his position. Brady will have to put together some more great years before he surpasses that.

That said, given the importance of the QB position I'd take Brady over any other player in Pats history. That doesn't make him the best, but it does make him the most valuable when it comes to winning.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

There is no doubt that the greatest Patriot is Tom Brady.

Remember, before Brady and BB, the Pats claim to fame was getting crushed in SBs 20 and 31.

Around and in between...

Massive fire across the street from the stadium during a game. (Boston Patriots)
Clive Rush
Phil Olsen
Failed Toliets (Schaffer opening day)
W/L (26-58) from 1970-1975
Ben Dreith
Darryl Stingley
Leon Gray
Ken Sims
2 non-strike playoff appearances (1970-1984)
First Post-Merger playoff victory: 1985
Hart Lee Dykes
Mrs. Fryar's Knife
Mr. Fryar and the Tree
"Berry the Bears"
Tony Eason wears a skirt???
Cocaine
Mike Ruth
"One-Yard" Dupard
1st OT victory: 1988 (OT was implemented in 1974)
Tippett and Blackmon injured during the final exhibition game and both out for the year (5-11, 1989)
Rod "I'm proud of those guys" Rust (1-15, 1990)
2-14, 1992
W/L (19-61) from 1989-1993
Victor Kiam
Zeke Mowatt
Partiot Missiles
Lisa Olson
**** McPherson
Sam Jankovich
Chris Singleton and Ray Agnew
Eugene Chung (I almost disowned them after that FUBAR)
James Busch Orthwein, starring in "Meet Me In St. Louis".
Parcells to the Jets
Pete Carroll
Bobby Grier
Ben Coates whining after a win
Terry Glenn

Besides the fact that a QB is worth far more than a guard it's a no-brainer that Brady is the best player, by far, in Patriots history. 7 years of Brady is worth far more than 7 years of any other Patriot. One of the objects of ridicule for this team, in the past, was that it's greatest player was a guard. We know now that guards can be easily found and developed. That John Hannah was considered the "greatest Patriot" was more an acknowledgement of the sad history of the franchise than the greatness of Hannah.

 

[Willie55]

originally posted by RayClay:

Without one top running back we led the league in rushing because of one player.

I guess the other four guys on the line didn't count that year.

 

[Willie55]

I vote for Hog Hannah. My opinion is that we have to go with what the player has done - we cannot look at potential. So Tom Brady remains a 5 year player who may one day become the greatest Patriots who ever played 9as well as maybe become the greatest QB who ever played). But as things currently stand, Hog Hannah is the man.

Potential!?!? If Brady was to retire today he'd make the HOF.

 

[sarge]

So you're saying Brady could have played guard and the team would lead the league in rushing every year? Your comparison of "talent level" is just silly.

Your comparison there is silly.

So you're saying, if possible, you would give up Brady right now, for Hannah in his prime???

First off, Not only is guard NOT near as difficult to play as QB, it is not even the most difficult position on the offensive line! In fact, between tackle center and guard, it is probably the least difficult.

And you are going to compare a player at this position against someone who plays arguably the most difficult position in all of sports?

 

[sarge]

I'm not going to win this argument with the "world was created in 2001" crowd, but I will say Hannah was the single most important player on some very good teams.

Been a fan since the 70's, so that doesn't fly either.

Hannah was great, but if we could go back to the 70's and 80's, I would have easily prefered Brady over Hannah. Let us not forget that Hannah really didn't want to be on this team either for a big stretch( I understand that should have no effect on his talent level)!

 

[RayClay]

originally posted by RayClay:


I guess the other four guys on the line didn't count that year.

I would say they were relatively insignificant compared to Hannah.

But don't go by me. You could just google this, to see many football experts considered him the greatest offensive lineman ever.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hannah+"greatest+offensive+lineman"&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=0&sa=N

Leon gray made all pro playing next to him, although no one would put him in the same category and some thought he greatly benefited by havin Hannah by his side.

They had some good linemen. I don't believe they had any that were superlative besides Hannah.

 

[Willie55]

I would say they were relatively insignificant compared to Hannah.

But don't go by me. You could just google this, to see many football experts considered him the greatest offensive lineman ever.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hannah+%22greatest+offensive+lineman%22&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=0&sa=N

Leon gray made all pro playing next to him, although no one would put him in the same category and some thought he greatly benefited by havin Hannah by his side.

They had some good linemen. I don't believe they had any that were superlative besides Hannah.

I know he was great but to say he did it all by himself is ridiculous.

 

[RayClay]

Your comparison there is silly.

So you're saying, if possible, you would give up Brady right now, for Hannah in his prime???

First off, Not only is guard NOT near as difficult to play as QB, it is not even the most difficult position on the offensive line! In fact, between tackle center and guard, it is probably the least difficult.

And you are going to compare a player at this position against someone who plays arguably the most difficult position in all of sports?

Comparing an offensive lineman to a quarterback is silly on the face of it.

I'm just saying, for those who remember that period, Hannah was so dominant in the run game that virtually any runner we put in could gain consistent yardage.

| Don Calhoun | 14 | 76 391 5.1 1 | 3 29 9.7 0 |
| Sam Cunningham 16 | 199 768 3.9 8 | 31 297 9.6 0 |
| Horace Ivory | 15 | 141 693 4.9 11 | 14 122 8.7 0 |
| Andy Johnson | 15 | 147 675 4.6 3 | 26 267 10.3 0 |
| James McAlister 16 | 19 77 4.1 2 | 1 12 12.0 0 |
| Mosi Tatupu | 16 | 3 6 2.0 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |

I believe this is still the single season team rushing record. There's no 1,000 rusher here.

If you told me as a coach I can give you one player that will guarantee you a succesful running game for 8-10 years even if you lose your top runner, I'd have to consider that.

I believe teams with great running attacks and defenses have won the Super Bowl with average quarterbacks. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler.

I hate to break the illusion, but they did actually play for Super Bowls before 2001.

I swear, I remember.

 

[RayClay]

I know he was great but to say he did it all by himself is ridiculous.

Well, I saw Jim Brown play and he certainly needed blocking like any other running back. But by the same token, he was head and shoulders above the rest.

The same with Hannah.

I remember years into his career I had no idea why people made such a big deal about a lineman.

They had a special on TV with isolations of Hannah. It was all pretty amazing but one play blew my mind.

Hannah pulled to his right in front of the running back. Two big defenders were coming and I watched to see which one Hannah would pickup.

He feinted and seemed to line one up, then he turned quick put his elbows out and destroyed them both at the same time. I almost s**t.

I'm talking double pancake, flat on their backs.

The running back was so shocked he almost fell down, but he recovered when he realized he had the whole side of the field and 2-3 blockers between him and any tacklers.

I'd love to get ahold of some video like this then have a discussion, but I doubt it's available.

 

[sarge]

I hate to break the illusion, but they did actually play for Super Bowls before 2001.

I swear, I remember.

No No, you are wrong. The season ended after that amazing win in the Orange Bowl, breaking how many yeras straight (18 I think) of losing there.

Actually, I got the VHS tapes from my uncle of that game, and the divisional round of the playoffs against the Raiders. I recently transfered them to DVD.

He offered me the SB but I said I wasn't interested! Unfortunately we couldn't find were he had the Jets game, Anyone got it, I would be real interested in making a trade!

Hannah wasn't the only good lineman on that team either! Brock was no slouch!

He was no doubt a dominating player. But considering what it takes to play the QB position, and how good Brady is at it, for me there is just no way.

 

[the taildragger]

Well, I saw Jim Brown play and he certainly needed blocking like any other running back. But by the same token, he was head and shoulders above the rest.

The same with Hannah.

I remember years into his career I had no idea why people made such a big deal about a lineman.

They had a special on TV with isolations of Hannah. It was all pretty amazing but one play blew my mind.

Hannah pulled to his right in front of the running back. Two big defenders were coming and I watched to see which one Hannah would pickup.

He feinted and seemed to line one up, then he turned quick put his elbows out and destroyed them both at the same time. I almost s**t.

I'm talking double pancake, flat on their backs.

The running back was so shocked he almost fell down, but he recovered when he realized he had the whole side of the field and 2-3 blockers between him and any tacklers.

I'd love to get ahold of some video like this then have a discussion, but I doubt it's available.

at least you're bringing some insight to the table.

We're not going to change anyone's mind when it comes to our favorite players or childhood heros.

but again, the question probably comes down to this: if you were starting a team today, who would you:

a. SELECT FIRST
b. GIVE THE MOST MONEY

it has to be brady, right?

BTW, the guy gets around -- have espn/derby on TV and there he is at a damn party with the Mannings and other celebs., alan greenberg reported that a whole bunch of Pats flew out to Kentucky for the race....tough life.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

no problem with singling him out as the reason we lost that game. Just make sure we're consistent and single him out as the reason we win.

personally, I give credit to Champ for making a hell of a play (there are "offensive picks" and "defensive picks" and that was clearly a defensive pick). Most Pats fans aren't going to look at it that way.

I can tell by your avatar that you're a longtimer...let me just say that for me, a greater appreciation for the history of the franchise/game gives me an even deeper appreciation for what is going on right now.

Just hate to think we could be taking any of this run for granted.

That series of downs started first and goal on the 5, and we couldn't punch the GD ball in and had to resort to high risk ticky-tack.

Much of last year the D and the running game was inept due to injuries. TB carried the team on his back and led the league in passing. It could have easily been a losing season last year.

 

[RayClay]

No No, you are wrong. The season ended after that amazing win in the Orange Bowl, breaking how many yeras straight (18 I think) of losing there.

Actually, I got the VHS tapes from my uncle of that game, and the divisional round of the playoffs against the Raiders. I recently transfered them to DVD.

He offered me the SB but I said I wasn't interested! Unfortunately we couldn't find were he had the Jets game, Anyone got it, I would be real interested in making a trade!

Hannah wasn't the only good lineman on that team either! Brock was no slouch!

He was no doubt a dominating player. But considering what it takes to play the QB position, and how good Brady is at it, for me there is just no way.

Ha ha. I mean there were other teams that played and won super bowls before the Patriots.

And before that there were teams that played for NFL Championships.


LOL!! People are so focused on the last 5 years I guess I need to be really specific.

Brock was a good lineman so was Gray. Are you suggesting they are in the same class as Hannah?