TB's role in the rookie WR development

[BSR]

As I said in another thread when this came up -- anybody who doesn't recognize his error should have it vigorously pointed out to him until he does.

If he does seem to really see what he did wrong, however, one should be gentle with him.

In that vein should the receivers have lost their mind when Brady routinely overthrew passes to them? It cuts both ways and if you have players losing their minds every time somebody did anything wrong then you'll quickly have a circus on the field.

I would also hope that much of that frustration was towards himself. The rookies are rookies and will make mistakes. What's his excuse for playing awful?

 

[Fencer]

In that vein should the receivers have lost their mind when Brady routinely overthrew passes to them?

Overthrows and drops don't call for vigorous response. The offender knows what he did.

Running the wrong route is a different matter. So might be a technique flaw.

 

[patsfan-1982]

as hard as you think Brady is being on the rookies the reality is if they keep Dropping balls BB will cut them next year

 

[fair catch fryar]

From BB himself:

Exactly. The guy was just behaving the same way that most of us were at home while watching the game. It was downright painful. Not to mention that I think Brady has definitely earned a pass at this point in his career and the added frustration of how his receiving corps went from what it was last year to this. His frustration is probably directed at more than just the rookies, all of which I'm sure Brady has already spoken to in private. If he continues to display his emotions like this as the season goes, then people can be justifiably annoyed. Until then they should chill out for a few weeks.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Leaders don't publicly criticize. This was a classic BB move. Ream his ass in private, prop him up in public.

This is how it is done.

First off, it's not "in public", it's on the field, which isn't the same thing as BB giving a press conference. Next, if they don't like being criticized they could just do their jobs, that way they won't be criticized.

 

[yukon cornelius]

First off, it's not "in public", it's on the field, which isn't the same thing as BB giving a press conference. Next, if they don't like being criticized they could just do their jobs, that way they won't be criticized.

on the field, in a game, on national TV? doesn't get any more public

they are doing their job - they are learning to be an NFL caliber receiver, and they are doing it on the fly with one of the best teams in the game

they are gripping, pressing, thinking too much - they have the ability, they are just not playing with confidence, they are mentally overwhelmed

if they aren't giving effort, or doing what it takes to prepare, then they need criticism

what we saw thursday was frustration, and it was counter productive....the man has acknowledged that, and will no doubt move forward and be the leader we've seen in the past


and my public/private was in reference to BB.....you know he was frustrated with the receivers, and i am guessing he expressed that behind close doors.....and i guarantee he was frustrated with TB12, and he surely expressed that behind close doors, while extolling his leadership at the presser

 

[aluminum seats]

Brady definitely has to make an effort to stay a bit more level out there.

If he's not careful, he could fall into the habits of Marino, who spent most of his final seasons red-faced and screaming at everything. Not a pretty sight.

 

[Snake Eyes]

on the field, in a game, on national TV? doesn't get any more public


they are gripping, pressing, thinking too much - they have the ability, they are just not playing with confidence, they are mentally overwhelmed

what we saw thursday was frustration, and it was counter productive....the man has acknowledged that, and will no doubt move forward and be the leader we've seen in the past

I think you hit upon some important points, they ARE thinking too much and that usually happens when people care about how they look, those thoughts take them away from the task at hand and leave someone mentally uncoordinated. Ever read "Moneyball"? They tell the story about Billy Bean not being able to hit a ball if his life depended on it, and one day they tell him they're evaluating a pitcher and need a hitter for the drill, and he couldn't miss.

When people get over being concerned about how they look their skill can take off, and public criticism is one of the best ways to accomplish that. If you constantly keep things quiet in order to protect their ego then that ego remains an issue.

One tactic used by Sean Payton, who I consider one of the best coaches in the league, is to call on a player to explain to everyone in the meeting what they did wrong on a play. Basically, 'either you can explain your mistakes completely or I'll explain them, and I guarantee you won't like it if I do it so you'd better be thorough'.

Criticism is absolutely essential for leadership, but those leaders will always lead from the front by calling attention to and taking responsibility for their own errors first before calling out the mistakes of others. I don't think Brady's frustration was counterproductive at all, it's just part of the process.

All that being said, how much time has been spent criticizing Brady? You see headlines about that instead of "Patriots receivers fail", what's worse for the receivers?

 

[yukon cornelius]

does payton call out his players in public, or on the sidelines like that?


or does he ask them to hold themselves accountable to themselves and their teammates behind closed doors?


they are gripping....and brady throwing tantrums on the sideline is not going to help that one bit

 

[mgteich]

Peyton would simply stop passing to players who continued to disappointed. That is what Brady used to do. Now, Belichick has given him no choices. It is Brady who must train the kids and pass them in regular season games, even though they are ready to be inactive rookies.

We are being all down on Brady. If we were 0-2 (as we easily could be), we'd be down on Belichick for not having any veteran backups, available in the case of injury at WR and at TE.

does payton call out his players in public, or on the sidelines like that?


or does he ask them to hold themselves accountable to themselves and their teammates behind closed doors?


they are gripping....and brady throwing tantrums on the sideline is not going to help that one bit

 

[Buchanty]

We seem to be forgetting that it was against the JETS, and TB hates nothing more than to lose to them, especially with Ryan coaching (or not) a poor running game, a weak receiving game and a green (in every sense) QB. And it was at Gillette, TB's home and his turf.

I forgive BB's smile and TB's emotional explosions on the basis that this is an acerbic rivalry. I am sure Wilkerson's assertion that the Jets came to get the win only fanned the emotions.

Normally I would agree that it was counter-productive, but given the context of the rivalry, it is explainable - the JETS are simply not your every day opponent and the rookies are now well aware of that.

I expect normal transmission between coach and players to resume immediately.

 

[Snake Eyes]

does payton call out his players in public, or on the sidelines like that?


or does he ask them to hold themselves accountable to themselves and their teammates behind closed doors?


they are gripping....and brady throwing tantrums on the sideline is not going to help that one bit

Yeah, Manning isn't afraid to let loose if he thinks a player deserves it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_-Lypb5QZc

 

[Marqui]

Just rewatched the game. Dobson is a complete bust if his hands don't improve. Those drops were horrific.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Yeah, Manning isn't afraid to let loose if he thinks a player deserves it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_-Lypb5QZc

and manning was roundly criticized for it

this is a unique situation

getting rookies up to speed in the midst of an NFL season is like building an airplane while flying it

they need to be built up and molded; calling out mistakes and expecting performance is one thing....i just think he went beyond that and allowed his frustration to boil over

he seemed to agree, and will move on hopefully...and they will improve



i expect more out of the GOAT, and i suspect we'll get more

 

[Patriot Missile]

Just rewatched the game. Dobson is a complete bust if his hands don't improve. Those drops were horrific.

I'm going to hold off on that call. Possibly rookie jitters there.

Personally, besides the drops I was pretty impressed with his ability to gain separation on his man. It's not like he was known in college to make a lot of drops. Actually the goofy stats show he was one of the most surehanded receivers in college last year.

I'm going to give Dobson a pass and hope he gets the dropsies out of his system. If he can do that and learn to run better routes as the season progresses he can be a major weapon on this team. I'm looking for improvement over this season to translate into next season. He is only a rookie after all. I'm still a big fan of his. Especially when this team is fully healthy.

 

[Snake Eyes]

and manning was roundly criticized for it

this is a unique situation

getting rookies up to speed in the midst of an NFL season is like building an airplane while flying it

they need to be built up and molded; calling out mistakes and expecting performance is one thing....i just think he went beyond that and allowed his frustration to boil over

he seemed to agree, and will move on hopefully...and they will improve



i expect more out of the GOAT, and i suspect we'll get more

I actually don't care if it's criticized, many of the people doing the criticizing are know-nothing idiots who have never been in that position.

I only care if it's effective, and on that note I'll put my faith in the guy who's built a HoF/GOAT career.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I actually don't care if it's criticized, many of the people doing the criticizing are know-nothing idiots who have never been in that position.

I only care if it's effective, and on that note I'll put my faith in the guy who's built a HoF/GOAT career.

look up the interviews with some of marinos ex-teammates

many hated his antics, and it was his behavior and lack of leadership that, imho, keeps him out of the GOAT discussion


one night....i'll cut him some slack.....but i expect more





and i heard more than one player or ex-player/coach calling manning out for that nonsense

 

[Snake Eyes]

look up the interviews with some of marinos ex-teammates

many hated his antics, and it was his behavior and lack of leadership that, imho, keeps him out of the GOAT discussion


one night....i'll cut him some slack.....but i expect more





and i heard more than one player or ex-player/coach calling manning out for that nonsense

The problem with that example is that Marino didn't take blame for his own mistakes, mistakes were everyone's else's fault.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Just rewatched the game. Dobson is a complete bust if his hands don't improve. Those drops were horrific.

You know what, it was his first game. He did have some mistakes but he also is very, very promising as developing into a major target. Plenty of separation, just has to correct his routes and catching ability. Once he does, Tom will have a great weapon.

 

[aluminum seats]

The problem with that example is that Marino didn't take blame for his own mistakes, mistakes were everyone's else's fault.

Well, exactly. And it got worse as he got older. Brady has to guard against that--at some point, he'll miss some throws that he didn't used to miss, and he'll get more frustrated because of that.

Doesn't mean he still won't be great, and the Pats won't be able to win a SB with him. But ever-increasing levels of frustration won't help in that quest.