Rumor: Moss to Vikings?

[PatsFanSince74]

Thank the gods Brady has already signed his new contract.

Oh yeah. Contracts keep stars in town if they don't want to stay.

Isn't that what this thread is about?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

It's not beyond me at all.

1. You don't gain anything when you get rid of your best receiver.

2. Welker will now be specifically gameplanned against the way Moss was, as he is now our most dangerous receiver. He also made his living exposing the pockets that were left behind when Moss took two defenders with him.

3. We're going to need to run the ball a bit more now. We have two injury prone starters in Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris, both on the downside of their careers, and a competent starter in BJGE who hasn't shown that he can get it done against better defenses. On top of that, the O-Line hasn't shown that they can consistently run block.

4. Who is the threat to take it deep? Oh right, Tate. What has he shown to make you think that he can be a deep threat in this league?

5. Who lines up at flanker?

6. How does losing one of the best receivers in the game help this extremely young and mistake prone defense?

Please provide a detailed reasoning for why you think losing Moss is a good thing. Either that, or don't bother responding.

The reasoning? Yeah. The reasoning....

Well, if you take the square root of pi and divide it by an odd perfect number and then.... no, that won't work.

I think he'll be getting back to you on that one...

 

[Off The Grid]

Your sig doesn't make sense.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

You simply fail to get it. Respectfully submitted.

BTW: We are currently 24th in Time of Possession.

AGAIN:

 

[Uncle Rico]

ANy chance the mods get out the Merge-o-matic today? Looks like every opinion on this trade is getting its own thread this a.m. -- and I'm kind of in awe of how big this thread is. Love to see it keep going.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Happy to, my good man:

OK. I'll bite. Our D has been called a lot of things this year, but "tenacious" is not one of them, unless its when they're trying to hold onto receivers who just picked their pockets downfield. And, whatever they're success in one game, the law firm and Woody don't (yet at least) give us ball control. So...

 

[Off The Grid]

Exactly right. This whole ball control philosophy without moss ignores how long we had the ball last year with him... once again people only seeing what they want to

Randy!! Oh, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!



Your incapacity to grasp the basics amuses me!!

 

[chrisfx811]

I don't quite get it. I felt we didn't get much value from the Cassel/Vrabel trade, but it appeared someone knew the Pats weren't going to pay to sit on Matt for long. Seymour, netted good value, albeit further down the road than some would have liked. Now, we're ready to jettison Moss for a 3rd rounder? We didn't get in on Brandon Marshall, despite McDaniels being the coach in Denver and AJ Smith appears to be ready to get nothing for VJ in exchange for not letting him have his way.

I get that Moss may not be happy, and he'll likely continue to be the guy who doesn't go up in traffic for a ball, or dramatically alter his long route to make a catch, but it seems like we needed his deep threat presence, and we still could have got 800-900 yds and 10 tds out of him.

The Jets are going to be adding another potentially good wr to their lineup soon.
Baltimore has a stacked receiving corps to complement a running attack we couldn't stop.
Indy always seems to have 4-5 guys that can be plugged in.

Our D isn't going to be enough to lead this team far in the playoffs. ST had one great game, and some people think we're suddenly at the end of our rebuilding project, ready to jump off into SB winning territory. Pittsburgh, the Jets, and Baltimore have serious defenses right now, and 2 of the 3 appear to have enough offense to hang with most anyone.

 

[Patjew]

I'm out. **** me.

 

[makewayhomer]

Ball Control + Tenacious D Win Championships.

lol, cliche much?

New Orleans really had a ball control and tenacious D last year! so did Indy when they won!

if you actually want to know the correlation between TOP and wins, read here

cliff notes: being awesome at offense (points/drive) is more important than TOP

sure, I would love a great defense, but trading Moss doesn't make our defense any better

here are the top metrics, in order

Offense Points per drive
Defense 1st Down Rushing play ratio
Defense Points per drive
Offense Pass Overall Effectiveness
Offense Touchdown %
Offense Pass Play Success Rate
Offense Pass Average Yards per Attempt
Defense 2nd Down Rushing play ratio
Offense Time of Possession per drive

 

[Off The Grid]

Does anyone else have a problem giving San Diego two second rounders for Vincent Jackson?

I sure as hell don't.

HELL, yeah, I've got a problem with that.

AWFUL move.

We don't NEED a Down Field threat.

ALL we need ~ all we've EVER needed ~ is to build a powerfull, Ball Control Offense ~ DONE ~ and a Tenacious D, which is WELL on the way.

Without a Tenacious D...All the points in the WORLD aren't getting us anywhere.

Or were the majority of you asleep for all of 2007??

 

[ausbacker]

I'm out. **** me.

Let's cry over these buddy .

 

[JoeShmoe]

Lets face it, its a DREADFUL trade at a dreadful time of the year

BUT, as I said earlier, if his heads gone he isnt going to last until next week, let alone the end of the season. Because of the character he is he wont suck it up and see the season out. BB saw that, something obviously happened again after the Miami game, and that was that

I really dont see what else we could have done if Moss himself turned round and said 'thats it, im out'

Doesnt make it a good trade but maybe we HAD to get rid of him before the whole thing turned nasty

 

[SEA_Pat]

Yup. The last few seasons we've made bad moves, but this is stupid. I understand getting something for him before he's gone. We have a whole season left. Unless you find a ******* HOF WR, you're not replacing Moss. Moss can bring THIS team a title THIS year, no 3rd rounder is probably ever going to do that for this team. Absolutely devastating move. I don't care whart some of you yes men say about it, this move will hurt this offense so bad.

Sure, if we had a MOTIVATED, HAPPY and PRODUCTIVE Randy Moss, that's not something you can replace, even with a first round pick.

What about if you have UNMOTIVATED, DISGRUNTLED and UNPRODUCTIVE Randy Moss? Even with his talent, is he going to play hard and make plays? Is he going to not be a complete distraction to the team and go against everything that is the Patriot Way that they've established painstakingly over x number of years? Is he going to take away more in team chemistry for now and for the young guys in the future than he gives this year? Is that worth it?

I noticed at the time that when BB was high fiving people at the end of the Miami game, Moss wasn't enthusiastic or happy. There was the bizarro press conference after a victory where he's all about Randy. And there may well have been another blowup yesterday that made Bill say "right, that's it then, we gotta get rid of him before he becomes a major problem".

That's the only way this makes sense. And if it is the case, then what they're doing makes sense. The Patriot Way is to measure twice and cut once. And it doesn't matter who you are or what you've done in the past. When Tom gets past his prime and there's a better option in the stable, we will cut him (if BB is still at the helm, anyway). And it will be the right thing to do. Once that decision is made, then you get whatever you can for him.

As I wrote before, loved Randy and respect him, and appreciate what he's done for this team. But as soon as he, or anyone else is not with the program, they're gone. And they should be. Football is a team game.

 

[jsull87]

Randy!! Oh, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!



Your incapacity to grasp the basics amuses me!!

Your incapacity to formulate an argument or have a conversation without reverting to sayings you have repeated 100 times amuses me.

You preach ball control but when someone pulls up a stat showing you we did control the ball all last year with moss you disregard it and say we haven't for 4 games this year.

It's fine it just lets me know who to take seriously on this board and who not to.

 

[Oswlek]

The coaching staff had obviously seen what the defense was going to be like without Milloy. They knew they were going to be great. Furthermore, one could argue that the 2002 defense was just a piece or two away from being a great defense. They got that piece in Rodney. The safeties there could replace what Milloy left behind. What have you seen to make you think that anybody in this offense can replace Moss's production through four weeks? What have you seen from the run offense to make you think that they can pound the rock like they did earlier in the decade?

EDIT: Oh, and where am I saying what can and cannot be discussed? I welcome rational debate over my points. You're welcome to bring some of your own to the table at some point, as well.

Sorry, I got a bit defensive at the "those who are talking about the 2003 Pats STOP" comment.

I would contest the thought that the 2003 coaches were so confident. They had just traded a 4th for Ted Washington two week prior to releasing Milloy and didn't have have his replacement figured out yet. They went into the first game with Antwaan Harrs is the starter and had to make a major disaster move of sliding their promising rookie corner over to safety.

Another team I would point at is the 2009 Colts. They had a terrible running game, decent but unspectacular defense, terrible special teams and no genuine deep threat at WR.

NE's defense has a long way to go before anyone would call them "decent", but they aren't dead in the water without Moss. Ultimately, the fate of this team's playoff hopes rests on the guys on the opposite side of the field as Randy.

 

[patman12]

That's what the market will bear.

True.

On top of that, it reeks of desperation from our end.

Disagree. The Patriots could hold on to Moss but then get- at best- a comp pick at the end of the 3rd round in 2012. This trade nets them a pick that could end up in the first half of the third round in 2011 (assuming Minny and Favre continue to look like total crap).

The Pats can't trade a comp pick but they can move a pick gained from the Vikes, this alone makes the 2011 pick more valuable. Add to that the fact that the Pats have a ton of picks stockpiled that they can use to move up and grab impact players in a draft that will have a rookie cap.

 

[Off The Grid]

lol, cliche much?

New Orleans really had a ball control and tenacious D last year! so did Indy when they won!

That's 2 teams in 10 years, genius!!

 

[Oswlek]

Sure, if we had a MOTIVATED, HAPPY and PRODUCTIVE Randy Moss, that's not something you can replace, even with a first round pick.

What about if you have UNMOTIVATED, DISGRUNTLED and UNPRODUCTIVE Randy Moss? Even with his talent, is he going to play hard and make plays? Is he going to not be a complete distraction to the team and go against everything that is the Patriot Way that they've established painstakingly over x number of years? Is he going to take away more in team chemistry for now and for the young guys in the future than he gives this year? Is that worth it?

I noticed at the time that when BB was high fiving people at the end of the Miami game, Moss wasn't enthusiastic or happy. There was the bizarro press conference after a victory where he's all about Randy. And there may well have been another blowup yesterday that made Bill say "right, that's it then, we gotta get rid of him before he becomes a major problem".

That's the only way this makes sense. And if it is the case, then what they're doing makes sense. The Patriot Way is to measure twice and cut once. And it doesn't matter who you are or what you've done in the past. When Tom gets past his prime and there's a better option in the stable, we will cut him (if BB is still at the helm, anyway). And it will be the right thing to do. Once that decision is made, then you get whatever you can for him.

As I wrote before, loved Randy and respect him, and appreciate what he's done for this team. But as soon as he, or anyone else is not with the program, they're gone. And they should be. Football is a team game.

Precisely, I also noticed Randy's demeanor after the win when the rest of the team, including Brady and BB were downright giddy. I would have thought Randy would have been one of the first over to celebrate when Tom came off the field.

He didn't want to be be here and the team moved on. Lament his loss all you want, but an unhappy Moss is not a good thing to have on a young team.

 

[Off The Grid]

The reasoning? Yeah. The reasoning....

Well, if you take the square root of pi and divide it by an odd perfect number and then.... no, that won't work.

I think he'll be getting back to you on that one...

Yeah, about half an hour before you posted this, Sparky.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Just saw the news report on Channel 7 saying they confirmed the trade with a Patriots official.

THey showed that shot of Moss on the sidelines at the end of the Monday game. I remember thinking it was odd how he looked - -not a crybaby by any means, though his eyes were red and he seemed to be hiding some very deep emotions (NOT anger over the zero catches).

In hindsight, he sure looked like a guy who knew it was his last moment as an NE Patriot.