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Rodney Harrison comments on Patrick Chung


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Not once has Ed Reed publicly stated his desire to leave the Baltimore Ravens organization.

Why would he? He's had a good career there and he's paid well. There would be no reason to. If they let him walk into FA next year and he decides he doesn't want to hang them up just yet, I'd be very interested. No doubt our head coach would be as well.
 
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The Ravens are getting older on defense while the Patriots defense is younger. He also has a chance to play for a team that has one of the greatest QB's of all time and an ultimate chance to win a Super Bowl with only an improved secondary.
Ed Reed could easily sign with the Denver Broncos, who also have a Hall-of-Fame quarterback, as well as a Hall-of-Fame cornerback.
 
I have been saying for a while now in other areas that the key to solving this secondary (and Chung's performance) revolves around finding a solid Free Safety. Let's analyze our secondary, briefly:

---------------
Cornerback
---------------
* Kyle Arrington - Good in intermediate coverage, fails when asked to play perimeter; will be best served as a Slot CB.
* Marquice Cole - Core Special Teamer; Emergency Slot CB.
* Alfonzo Dennard - Well-rounded CB. Can play slot, though not overly agile. Better in man to man coverage on the outside; has the makings of a solid #2 CB, should be given more starts.
* Ras-I Dowling - Has height, length, speed, and agility to excel in press coverage and be a potential shut down corner. Injuries and lack of playing time have not allowed him to flourish, however. Weak in zone coverage. Athletic enough to play Safety.
* Devin McCourty - Our best CB (and arguably best Safety), is weak in man to man coverage. Excels in zone, needs to have the play in front of him so he can use his instincts to attack and be aggressive.
* Sterling Moore - He has had a few memorable plays, though is really a JAG. Can be emergency Safety. Average in all areas, can be beaten easily.

---------------
Safety
---------------
* Patrick Chung - Physical in the box safety who can cover tight ends and running backs if allowed to play close to the line. Has speed and good instincts, when asked to blitz, he usually disrupts.
* Nate Ebner - Special Teamer.
* Steve Gregory - An intelligent safety who can play any role (SS, FS, CB), he is best served as a FS. Knocks are, however, that he is usually late to make a play, misses tackles.
* Tavon Wilson - A large Safety that can play any role similar to Gregory. Has played FS and SS. Best used as an in the box Safety like Chung to kill Tight Ends and Running Backs. Can develop as a FS due to CB experience.


Sorry for the clutter above. I just wanted to point out some general strengths and weaknesses of our DBs. If Chung is to be the leader of this unit, it NEEDS to be built around him. He is our Polamalu (In style of play, not skill). He needs his Ryan Clark (as another poster had alluded to). The choices come down to Gregory or McCourty. Gregory has been very up and down, and while McCourty has shown to do well in a FS role due to its zone type of play, he is also our best CB, and a decision has to be made.

Frankly, I would pair Chung and McCourty going forward. CB play has been down, but Safety play has been horrible. In 2010, when Chung was at his best, Sanders was still around and covered the deep field while Chung patrolled the line. McCourty can easily fill that Sanders role. Gregory, until he proves otherwise, is a backup. Wilson can develop into a solid No. 3 or potential starter.

With McCourty out at CB, we are left with Arrington, Cole, Dennard, Dowling, and Moore. Arrington is a Slot CB, he cannot be allowed to play on the perimeter, especially if the Pats shift to more man to man. The two players that excel in that coverage are Dennard and Dowling. As promising as Dowling is, however, he is injured. Again. And the coaches aren't trusting him to play, which is a shame since he was a starter last year. In Dowling's absence, Moore could be capable.

In short, I propose a backfield of:

Dennard - McCourty - Chung - Dowling; Slot CB - Arrington

In combination with a Cover 1, man to man scheme, Chung should return to form, and the secondary should be able to recover.
 
Can you honestly see Goldson signing with us for a contract like that? He's most likely going to command top dollar.
It would not surprise me if Goldson is franchise tagged once again. As for three previously mentioned safeties, if you want quality you will have to pay the market price.
 
I have been saying for a while now in other areas that the key to solving this secondary (and Chung's performance) revolves around finding a solid Free Safety. Let's analyze our secondary, briefly:

---------------
Cornerback
---------------
* Kyle Arrington - Good in intermediate coverage, fails when asked to play perimeter; will be best served as a Slot CB.
* Marquice Cole - Core Special Teamer; Emergency Slot CB.
* Alfonzo Dennard - Well-rounded CB. Can play slot, though not overly agile. Better in man to man coverage on the outside; has the makings of a solid #2 CB, should be given more starts.
* Ras-I Dowling - Has height, length, speed, and agility to excel in press coverage and be a potential shut down corner. Injuries and lack of playing time have not allowed him to flourish, however. Weak in zone coverage. Athletic enough to play Safety.
* Devin McCourty - Our best CB (and arguably best Safety), is weak in man to man coverage. Excels in zone, needs to have the play in front of him so he can use his instincts to attack and be aggressive.
* Sterling Moore - He has had a few memorable plays, though is really a JAG. Can be emergency Safety. Average in all areas, can be beaten easily.

---------------
Safety
---------------
* Patrick Chung - Physical in the box safety who can cover tight ends and running backs if allowed to play close to the line. Has speed and good instincts, when asked to blitz, he usually disrupts.
* Nate Ebner - Special Teamer.
* Steve Gregory - An intelligent safety who can play any role (SS, FS, CB), he is best served as a FS. Knocks are, however, that he is usually late to make a play, misses tackles.
* Tavon Wilson - A large Safety that can play any role similar to Gregory. Has played FS and SS. Best used as an in the box Safety like Chung to kill Tight Ends and Running Backs. Can develop as a FS due to CB experience.


Sorry for the clutter above. I just wanted to point out some general strengths and weaknesses of our DBs. If Chung is to be the leader of this unit, it NEEDS to be built around him. He is our Polamalu (In style of play, not skill). He needs his Ryan Clark (as another poster had alluded to). The choices come down to Gregory or McCourty. Gregory has been very up and down, and while McCourty has shown to do well in a FS role due to its zone type of play, he is also our best CB, and a decision has to be made.

Frankly, I would pair Chung and McCourty going forward. CB play has been down, but Safety play has been horrible. In 2010, when Chung was at his best, Sanders was still around and covered the deep field while Chung patrolled the line. McCourty can easily fill that Sanders role. Gregory, until he proves otherwise, is a backup. Wilson can develop into a solid No. 3 or potential starter.

With McCourty out at CB, we are left with Arrington, Cole, Dennard, Dowling, and Moore. Arrington is a Slot CB, he cannot be allowed to play on the perimeter, especially if the Pats shift to more man to man. The two players that excel in that coverage are Dennard and Dowling. As promising as Dowling is, however, he is injured. Again. And the coaches aren't trusting him to play, which is a shame since he was a starter last year. In Dowling's absence, Moore could be capable.

In short, I propose a backfield of:

Dennard - McCourty - Chung - Dowling; Slot CB - Arrington

In combination with a Cover 1, man to man scheme, Chung should return to form, and the secondary should be able to recover.

I don't agree with everything on here, but that was about as solid a first post as I've ever seen before.

:welcome:
 
What was wrong with the secondary that you think it wasn't decent in 2006 and 2007?

Asante Samuel - big plays for both teams. I seem to recall him failing to close out the SB with an interception that he let sail through his hands.
 
It would not surprise me if Goldson is franchise tagged once again. As for three previously mentioned safeties, if you want quality you will have to pay the market price.

I would rather see us go with McCourty-Wilson-Gregory-Ebner at safety and pay for a FA CB to go with Dowling-Dennard at CB. One reason for that is that Dowling and McCourty do not seem well suited stylistically to play CB together. McCourty is better at zone than man and plays better with the ball in front of him. Dowling is better suited to man coverage and is poor in zone. I'd rather go after another big, physical CB to pair with Dowling outside, and put Dennard in the slot. While CBs are usually more expensive than safeties, (1) "if you want quality you will ahve to pay the market price", (2) for the price we would have expected to pay to keep Chung and possibly Arrington we should be able to afford a decent CB, and (3) most of the available CBs have issues which should keep their market price down a bit. Brent Grimes is coming off an injury. Aqib Talib has off field issues. And Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie has some consistency issues. I'm not sure any of those guys will get the kind of contract that Brandon Carr or Cortland Finnegan got last year, though you never know what the FA feeding frenzy will bring.
 
On a more serious note, Ed Reed has talked about retirement as early as May 2012.

Ed Reed quickly backs off initial hint at retirement - NFL.com

Do you have any evidence Ed Reed will play for the New England Patriots next season or that your baseless opinion?

I didn't claim Reed would play for the Patriots, therefore I don't need to find evidence supporting such a claim. You made a claim that Reed would retire rather than play elsewhere. Your claim was baseless, making it nothing but your blind hunch.

Posting your baseless claim (hunch) is fine, but the basis for the claim matters, which is why I asked about it.
 
Asante Samuel - big plays for both teams. I seem to recall him failing to close out the SB with an interception that he let sail through his hands.

That may be the most ridiculous post I've read in weeks, and this place has been crazy during that time.
 
Brent Grimes is coming off an injury. Aqib Talib has off field issues. And Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie has some consistency issues. I'm not sure any of those guys will get the kind of contract that Brandon Carr or Cortland Finnegan got last year, though you never know what the FA feeding frenzy will bring.
Brent Grimes tore his Achilles' tendon earlier this season. That's a big risk to sign a cornerback recovering from that type of injury.

Brent Grimes - Atlanta Falcons - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Falcons placed CB Brent Grimes on injured reserve with a torn Achilles' tendon, ending his season.

Aqib Talib is not worth the potential headache nor is he worth the money. DRC will probably be the top unrestricted free agent cornerback on the market for calendar year 2013. I could envision DRC signing for Brandon Carr money.

Team-by-team cap space as of September 7 | ProFootballTalk

The Philadelphia Eagles have plenty of salary cap space to rollover into next season.
 
I would rather see us go with McCourty-Wilson-Gregory-Ebner at safety and pay for a FA CB to go with Dowling-Dennard at CB. One reason for that is that Dowling and McCourty do not seem well suited stylistically to play CB together. McCourty is better at zone than man and plays better with the ball in front of him. Dowling is better suited to man coverage and is poor in zone. I'd rather go after another big, physical CB to pair with Dowling outside, and put Dennard in the slot.
As of last Sunday, the New England Patriots defensive secondary resembles the Keystone Cops. I'm tempted to say the whole defensive secondary needs to be gutted, however the New England Patriots do not have enough draft picks nor enough salary cap space for that to be feasible solution in calendar year 2013.

The following defensive secondary players should be retained for the 2013 NFL Season:

McCourty
Dowling
Dennard
Wilson
Ebner
Moore (ERFA) ????

What defensive roles in the future for the aforementioned five or six players remain to be seen.
 
I apologize for the inappropriate response.

No apology needed, although it's appreciated. Looking back at it, "baseless" was a confusing, if not downright poor, word choice. I should have been more clear that I wasn't meaning it in any insulting way.
 
No apology needed, although it's appreciated. Looking back at it, "baseless" was a confusing, if not downright poor, word choice. I should have been more clear that I wasn't meaning it in any insulting way.
If Ray Ray returns for another season, I could envision Ed Reed coming back for one last hurrah with the Ravens.
 
with this type of run-stopping front 7 we do not need a run support safety, we need two free safeties back there for 75% of the time

spikes is a liability against the pass, and tremendous against the run, let him be the only weak link in terms of pass on the field, we don't need to compound it with a safety who is marginal against the run, yet horrible against the pass
 
Also, the fact that the Patriots have used something like 9 picks on DB's on the first two rounds in recent years, and that NONE of them have improved, and that several have even regressed and gotten worse, means that the real issue is a bad secondary coach problem, not a talent issue.

The secondary coaching needs to be fired/replaced, it's clearly the weak link and the real issue.

I'm not smart enough to know, but I wonder this same thing... Did the guys who left NE for other teams become stars though? I dunno, I guess I'm on the fence.
 
with this type of run-stopping front 7 we do not need a run support safety, we need two free safeties back there for 75% of the time

spikes is a liability against the pass, and tremendous against the run, let him be the only weak link in terms of pass on the field, we don't need to compound it with a safety who is marginal against the run, yet horrible against the pass

To be fair, Safety play as whole when you look all across the league is relatively weak. You have the few standouts, but overall there aren't many spectacular Safetys out there.

Additionally, I'm not that familiar with the DBs looking to come out of school for next year, so I can't judge that particular sect.

While I understand your view, if there isn't any viable replacement / clear upgrade to be had, then it is always best to work with what is available and adjust technique / scheme / playcalling as needed. Yes, the need for run stuffers is diminishing by the year, but they are still valuable. The moment a team lacks players who are sufficient against the run is when the run game makes a resurgence. Like the Buffalo game, they played pass all the way. If the Patriots completely build their team around the pass, the run will kill them. Spikes alone won't do it.
 
Have to agree with Rodney. Chung is a decent safety, but that's all. He's late on deep passes all the time, and he can't cover anyone one-on-one. He's good tackler... that's pretty much it.

He has 8 more weeks to prove us wrong... I hope he does
 
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