Rodney Harrison comments on Patrick Chung

[TheComeback]

Patrick Chung is still a good player. He's a hard hitter who is a sure tackler, he would play very well on a team that uses a safety in the box (which the Pats DO NOT).

Also, the fact that the Patriots have used something like 9 picks on DB's on the first two rounds in recent years, and that NONE of them have improved, and that several have even regressed and gotten worse, means that the real issue is a bad secondary coach problem, not a talent issue.

The secondary coaching needs to be fired/replaced, it's clearly the weak link and the real issue.

This is ridiculous. You have no idea what the coaches are teaching these guys.

The issue is that 1) Good DBs are hard to find for every team and 2) The Patriots are even worse at finding them than most other teams.

If you draft 9 times in the first two rounds and don't get any hits (though I think McCourty is pretty good this season), that's a front office issue. Coaching is important, but it comes down to the players. If you're a good player, you're going to be good no matter what kind of coaching you get.

 

[patsinthesnow]

with this type of run-stopping front 7 we do not need a run support safety, we need two free safeties back there for 75% of the time

spikes is a liability against the pass, and tremendous against the run, let him be the only weak link in terms of pass on the field, we don't need to compound it with a safety who is marginal against the run, yet horrible against the pass

From your lips to BB.

 

[VrabelJr]

Chung's ceiling just isn't very high. Healthy or unhealthy. He probably peaked in season 2.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Bobby Knight - angry motivation speech - - YouTube

 

[DocHoliday]

This is a terribly dumb question, but how do the skillsets of a CB and a FS differ?

It seems to me the difference is that a FS is physically stronger and often better in the zone scheme with the ball in front of him.

It's based on this criteria that I like the idea of DMc at FS.

 

[mayoclinic]

As of last Sunday, the New England Patriots defensive secondary resembles the Keystone Cops. I'm tempted to say the whole defensive secondary needs to be gutted, however the New England Patriots do not have enough draft picks nor enough salary cap space for that to be feasible solution in calendar year 2013.

The following defensive secondary players should be retained for the 2013 NFL Season:

McCourty
Dowling
Dennard
Wilson
Ebner
Moore (ERFA) ????

What defensive roles in the future for the aforementioned five or six players remain to be seen.

I think Gregory may belong on that list. I think he's fine as a rotational safety - think a more coverage oriented version of James Sandes - but not as a starter.

 

[MTM558]

This is a terribly dumb question, but how do the skillsets of a CB and a FS differ?

It seems to me the difference is that a FS is physically stronger and often better in the zone scheme with the ball in front of him.

It's based on this criteria that I like the idea of DMc at FS.

Cornerbacks are responsible for covering opposing Wide Receivers in man coverage, or short areas of the field in zone. The Free Safety is the insurance policy to the cover scheme, so to say. Safetys are typically larger and stronger than Cornerbacks because they must be sound in their tackling, but also because they act as the last line of defense for the Defense. Free Safety back up the Cornerbacks, Strong Safety (essentially a lighter linebacker with better coverage capabilities) back up the Linebackers.

Safetys are also deployed in coverage against Tight Ends and Running Backs more often than Cornerbacks.

This is a really generalized and probably oversimplified definition of the position, and I hope to make that clear so I don't get blasted if I come across as misleading.

 

[ausbacker]

I'd pay Rodney a lot of money to coach the Patriots Safeties, hell the corners too.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I am skeptical about getting rid of Chung, this defense is so young.. getting rid of any experience is risky and bringing in a rookie to add to the confusion may not be a good idea.

Perhaps they can make him a reasonable offer, and if someone else wants him more then sayonara...

OTOH he seems to have remained static in the past couple of years..

Chung is injured a lot and hasn't improved in 4 years SO it's not like his experience is helpful. It's time for a change at the safety position. Retaining the status quo would be a BAD THING in this case.

 

[captain stone]

I agree you need safeties who can cover in this league. Especially with our front seven being so good against the run. It would be nice for the safeties to be able help more in pass coverage. Maybe McCourty is the answer?

I'm still going to give Chung the benefit of the doubt. He's been hurt the past 3 years and hasn't really gotten into a groove. Besides that I haven't had the same signature for the past 4 years for nothing!

Sorry Whiz, but I think it's time to ditch that sig.

 

[captain stone]

I'd consider Byrd or Phillips to be the most likely options. Goldson will cost a fortune and Quinn will most likely command a decent salary since he's coming from the Texans' defense.

And to think that Goldson visited Foxborough last summer and left w/o a contract, then re-signed
w/ the 49ers for 1 year/$2M, 33% less than the average of the contract that Bill gave to the
injured JAG Gregory. Thanks a lot, Genius.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The notion that no player in the secondary has improved is clearly false. Furthermore, even if it were true, it would not prove that the problem is the secondary coach.

Except that it's TRUE. Name one DB high draft pick who has actually gotten better while here in New England over the past few years. There are none. They spent 9 picks in the first two rounds on DB's recently. A few to several players have regressed or gotten worse after they got here. That is about as strong proof as one could have that it is a COACHING problem with the secondary coaches without being privy to team workings.

 

[Deus Irae]

Except that it's TRUE. Name one DB high draft pick who has actually gotten better while here in New England over the past few years. There are none. They spent 9 picks in the first two rounds on DB's recently. A few to several players have regressed or gotten worse after they got here. That is about as strong proof as one could have that it is a COACHING problem with the secondary coaches without being privy to team workings.

It's not true, and it's ridiculous of you to claim that it is.

1.) The round of the player is irrelevant, in terms of whether improvement has happened.

2.) Arrington, Moore, Ihedigbo, Edelman..... all improved in comparison to where they began. The amount of improvement may not be particularly impressive, but it's certainly there.

3.) McCourty, year 3 ....... Improved over McCourty, year 2

4.) Chung, solid against the run, just can't cover. Same as it ever was, and not surprising that it's continued. Given his build, if he could cover, he'd have been a CB.

5.) And, [highlight]again[/highlight], even if your point about the lack of improvement were actually true, which it's not, it wouldn't prove that there was a coaching problem, and it certainly wouldn't prove that the problem is with the secondary coaches. It would only prove that the DBs hadn't improved, not the "why?" of it.

 

[VrabelJr]

The way I see it is this. Next year Patrick Chung and Kenny Phillips will both be free agents. Which one would you pay?

 

[jsull87]

I already commented on this in another thread. I agree with you. I wouldn't say that Chung has regressed Brandon Meriweather-style, but he is too limited against the pass in a pass-happy league. Also, the presence of Brandon Spikes already gives us one back 7 defender who is a bit of a liability in coverage, which puts more pressure on the other players to be better in coverage. Spikes has more to offer than Chung in terms of his ability to make game-changing plays.

I'd personally like to see a safety rotation of McCourty/Wilson with Gregory as a rotational guy and Ebner as a developmental guy. I don't think it makes sense for the Pats to invest in Chung as a long term cornerstone of their secondary. He's a nice kid and I have nothing against him, but he's just too much of a liability in coverage and is banged up too much. And is Rodney states, he hasn't shown the ability to take his game to the next level in 4 years, so it's time to move on. We could use the money it would take to re-sign Chung (and possibly also Kyle Arrington) to invest in a veteran FA CB to team with Dowling and Dennard. There are no guarantees, but Houston and Dallas have shown that those investments can make a big difference to a defense, and we did OK with Leigh Bodden before he got injured. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Brent Grimes and Aqib Talib are all FAs. All have issues (inconsistency, injury or character issues), but all have talent and all could potentially upgrade our secondary more than re-signing Chung and Arrington.

This is what i have been thinking about for a while. This model has worked for San Fran, Houston, The Jets, Dalas and St Louis.

This would add a veteran presence to our secondary but one which (hopefully) could back it up with play on the field. this would also free us up to have McCourty either be CB2 or FS. It also takes pressure off Ras-I and Dennard and would hopefully help our pass rush as well giving them and extra split second to rush.

Honestly who knows, but i do think this is an avenue worth exploring this offseason via trade or FA. My target would be Grimes probably although the other 2 have undeniable elite athletic ability.

 

[nabwong]

I have been saying this ever since Rodney retired. We are just one safety short of being a super dominant team. If we have Ed Reed or Polamalu, we'd win the superbowl every year. Ok, maybe not every year, every 2. lol.

The bottomline is, no one respects our pass D. Even if we have a 14 point lead going into the 4th quarter, the other team KNOWS they can catch up.

 

[JPsPats]

The way I see it is this. Next year Patrick Chung and Kenny Phillips will both be free agents. Which one would you pay?

i would love kenny philips, guy from the U and he's a playmaker. Giants will probably let him go due to having antrelle rolle and stevie brown has been playing well for them. He does have issues staying healthy i think tho

 

[Avenger]

If we can get Reed in here we will win a SB with him no doubt in my mind. BB has a ton of respect for Reed and I'm sure it runs both ways. If Baltimore doesn't bring him back I think NE would be pretty high up on the list of suitors.

 

[coolguy]

"Run stopper safety" Whats the point of a run stopper safety when you have the big boys on the dline and at linebacker? Most teams don't even bother running it against the patriots.

 

[bagwell368]

Can you imagine the game Sanchez would have had with McCourty at CB?

McCourty is one of the best CB's in the NFL, so he Sanchize would have done worse. Half of the problems in the DB corps is Arrington.