Richard Seymour on WEEI now

[MoLewisrocks]

Love his own assessment of his career. Now he's saying he got injured in 2006 and really shouldn't have played at all in 2007 but pointing out that teams and coaches still tell him how they game plan for him and he's the first alternate if Freeney is in the Superbowl...would be his sixth...pointed to his own sack stats in 2008...

Contrast that with his admission that there is something different about some of the talent coming into the league today, care less about winning than the trappings of being an NFL player and taking care ($$) of your family...Not like when he came in... Said it's sometimes better as a HC to have less talented players who care about winning...duh...If he were a GM building a team that is what he would focus on...Has obviously realized that talent doesn't win championships, it takes a mix of well coached, disciplined football players who care to. It's like acknowledging there are tradeoffs and sacrifices you personally weren't willing to make.

Said that there is something missing in SD. They certainly have the talent but they don't play the right way. Slow starts, missed opportunities, mistakes, penalties...

Also touched on what he thinks the problem is here. Changed the tough mentality we were built on, tried to win with offense and the defense isn't tough. Naturally thinks he would have helped but stopped short of saying it would have made a difference given the way it all unraveled against Baltimore...

You will never be able to take Richard entirely at face value, he gets it on some level but his ego will never allow for him to be totally honest about his own situations. Still saying there was never an issue about his reporting to Oakland, only the guy he watched the game with yesterday (Rodney) told us different. He wanted to win, but the money got in the way and he still doesn't understand you can't have it both ways...

Tapdanced around the tag question, too. Just wanted to talk about how much the Raiders want him and how much he wants to be part of turning that situation around...but that's between his "representation" and Mr. Davis...because it is a business.

 

[cstjohn17]

Well they didn't exactly get "shredded" on the ground aside from that 83 yard TD run. Seymour was a part of some fluke plays like the Addai debacle a couple of years ago, so it's not like you can guarantee it wouldn't have happened with him.

Did you watch the game? The Ravens lined up with a 2 TE, 1 RB, 1 FB set and yelled "We are going to run the ball" and still couldn't be stopped. They threw the ball 10 times, 10 fricking times. That was one of the worst run defenses in Patriots playoff history.

As for Seymour, time will tell. I guess the official rebuilding began as soon as BB gave up on the season and traded their best defensive player.

 

[BradyManny]

Well they didn't exactly get "shredded" on the ground aside from that 83 yard TD run.

I don't know what the numbers say, but just looking at the game, we simply could not stop them on the ground at all. I agree the offense deserves a massive portion of the blame for the game. But the momentum was heading our way in the 3rd quarter when it was 24-14, and the Ravens just drove the ball right over us. If the D had gotten off the field on that drive, I really would've bet we'd have come out on top.

Granted, the only reason the Ravens won that game is b/c the offense put the team in such a huge hole. But the defense did have a chance to help dig the offense out in the 2nd half, and it folded horribly. That drive was killer.

 

[condon84]

We will never kniow whether Seymour or Hobbs and the signing/drafting of an additional LB would have made the difference. We can celebrate the trade when we win the 2013 SB, and think that this trade was the key to success.

I like your optimism. Hopefully, those two second and fifth round picks we'll trade for for that pick will turn out to be big contributors.

 

[emoney_33]

Did you watch the game? The Ravens lined up with a 2 TE, 1 RB, 1 FB set and yelled "We are going to run the ball" and still couldn't be stopped. They threw the ball 10 times, 10 fricking times. That was one of the worst run defenses in Patriots playoff history.

As for Seymour, time will tell. I guess the official rebuilding began as soon as BB gave up on the season and traded their best defensive player.

I did watch the game, did YOU watch the game? Take out the first play of the game as that is not indicative of the actual "we're running stop us" attitude you speak of. Rice: 3.6 YPC, McGahee: 3.1 YPC.

In the first quarter on drives where the offense didn't hand it to the Ravens inside the 25 the Ravens did the following:

1 play TD - fluke obviously, but it happened
3 plays punt
4 plays INT
3 plays punt
7 plays end of half

In the 2nd half:
3 plays punt
12 plays TD (end of 3rd quarter, maybe the D was just a tad tired?)
4 plays punt
2 plays end of game


Now the Ravens had 4 other drives aside from those listed, those resulted in 2 TDs and 2 FGs but started on the 25, 17, 9, and 22... 4 drives STARTING inside the 25 with the offense giving the ball up after 2-3 plays. The defense was put in a horrible situation, and the offense didn't allow them hardly any rest.

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand your logic but we all watched the team this year. The chance of us beating Balt then @SD then @Indy was minuscule IMO given everything I saw about the team.

Unless you're going to claim that they Seymour trade was transformed from bad to good because Welker got injured and that was something to be expected by all, your post doesn't make any sense.

The Ravens were able to destroy the Patriots by running right at Seymour's replacement on the end, and the Patriots couldn't do a damned thing about it without moving Wilfork off the nose and weakening the team at the very center of the line. The Chargers just lost to the Jets, a team that the Patriots had thumped a few weeks earlier in the year, and the Colts were a team that the Patriots had demonstrated an ability to compete with earlier in the season.

I'm sure that it's fun pretending it was a good trade, because it holds out the prospect of some form of redemption once the pick gets used. It's just that you have to ignore the reality of a wasted 2009 season in order to do that.

 

[cstjohn17]

I did watch the game, did YOU watch the game? Take out the first play of the game as that is not indicative of the actual "we're running stop us" attitude you speak of. Rice: 3.6 YPC, McGahee: 3.1 YPC.

In the first quarter on drives where the offense didn't hand it to the Ravens inside the 25 the Ravens did the following:

1 play TD - fluke obviously, but it happened
3 plays punt
4 plays INT
3 plays punt
7 plays end of half

In the 2nd half:
3 plays punt
12 plays TD (end of 3rd quarter, maybe the D was just a tad tired?)
4 plays punt
2 plays end of game


Now the Ravens had 4 other drives aside from those listed, those resulted in 2 TDs and 2 FGs but started on the 25, 17, 9, and 22... 4 drives STARTING inside the 25 with the offense giving the ball up after 2-3 plays. The defense was put in a horrible situation, and the offense didn't allow them hardly any rest.

Even with the short field the Ravens didn't get tricky, they just lined up and ran. They ran it right down the Patriots throat basically at will.
Baltimore Ravens vs. New England Patriots - Play By Play - January 10, 2010 - ESPN


Baltimore Ravens at 13:13 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at NE 17 W.McGahee up the middle to NE 14 for 3 yards (G.Guyton).
2nd and 7 at NE 14 W.McGahee left guard to NE 11 for 3 yards (V.Wilfork, J.Mayo).
3rd and 4 at NE 11 R.Rice left tackle to NE 6 for 5 yards (L.Bodden, B.Meriweather).
1st and 6 at NE 6 C.Chester reported in as eligible. R.Rice right end to NE 1 for 5 yards (J.Sanders).
2nd and 1 at NE 1 H.Ngata and C.Chester reported in as eligible. L.McClain up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

---------

Baltimore Ravens at 6:49 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at NE 25 C.Chester reported in as eligible. W.McGahee left tackle to NE 25 for no gain (J.Mayo, V.Wilfork).
2nd and 10 at NE 25 W.McGahee left tackle to NE 16 for 9 yards (J.Sanders).
3rd and 1 at NE 16 (No Huddle) J.Flacco up the middle to NE 15 for 1 yard (J.Seau, V.Wilfork).
1st and 10 at NE 15 J.Flacco pass short right to W.McGahee pushed ob at NE 2 for 13 yards (J.Mayo).
1st and 2 at NE 2 H.Ngata and C.Chester reported in as eligible. R.Rice up the middle to NE 1 for 1 yard (V.Wilfork, J.Seau).
2nd and 1 at NE 1 R.Rice left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. 20 0
B.Cundiff extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Katula, Holder-S.K

----------

Baltimore Ravens at 2:07 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at BAL 4 C.Chester reported in as eligible. L.McClain left tackle to BLT 8 for 4 yards (J.Green, G.Guyton).
2nd and 6 at BAL 8 W.McGahee left guard to BLT 12 for 4 yards (V.Wilfork, T.Warren).
Timeout #1 by NE at 01:54.
3rd and 2 at BAL 12 C.Chester and H.Ngata reported in as eligible. W.McGahee left tackle to BLT 15 for 3 yards (T.Warren).
1st and 10 at BAL 15 W.McGahee left tackle to BLT 17 for 2 yards (J.Sanders).
Timeout #2 by NE at 01:09.
2nd and 8 at BAL 17 W.McGahee left end pushed ob at BLT 23 for 6 yards (L.Bodden, J.Mayo).
3rd and 2 at BAL 23 W.McGahee left guard to BLT 26 for 3 yards (T.Banta-Cain, J.Seau).
1st and 10 at BAL 26 J.Flacco kneels to BLT 25 for -1 yards.

 

[emoney_33]

I don't know what the numbers say, but just looking at the game, we simply could not stop them on the ground at all. I agree the offense deserves a massive portion of the blame for the game. But the momentum was heading our way in the 3rd quarter when it was 24-14, and the Ravens just drove the ball right over us. If the D had gotten off the field on that drive, I really would've bet we'd have come out on top.

Granted, the only reason the Ravens won that game is b/c the offense put the team in such a huge hole. But the defense did have a chance to help dig the offense out in the 2nd half, and it folded horribly. That drive was killer.

Well the 3rd quarter drive you speak of was definitely a bad one, but it came at the end of the 3rd quarter in a game where the offense could barely run more than 3 plays a drive. So not only are the Ravens pounding the heck out of our just-coming-back-from-injury line with the run all game because of the score, but they aren't getting any rest.

The offensive drives by # of plays in the 1st half:
3,3,4,2,6,3,5

They had 7 drives and ran LESS than 4 plays a drive!

They came out in the 2nd half no better, starting off with drives of 3 plays then 4 (with an INT giving the ball to Ravens at the 22, which the defense held them to a FG). Then finally they get a couple of 10 play drives (TD and missed FG) towards the end of the 3rd/beginning 4th.

Just about every defense in the NFL would have struggled in those circumstances.

 

[RayClay]

We will never kniow whether Seymour or Hobbs and the signing/drafting of an additional LB would have made the difference. We can celebrate the trade when we win the 2013 SB, and think that this trade was the key to success.

Hobbs would have made a difference in kickoffs. Otherwise, Whilhite was doing a pretty good impression of Hobbs frantic, arm waving style of coverage. Wouldn't know the difference if it wasn't for the longer name.

He'll be a nickel just like hobbs should have been.

 

[Bella*chick]

Without Welker this offense wasn't going to the Superbowl. Debate the rest of it all you want. Maybe with Sey they win against Baltimore, but more likely, it's a frustrating, yet much closer loss.

 

[emoney_33]

Even with the short field the Ravens didn't get tricky, they just lined up and ran. They ran it right down the Patriots throat basically at will.
Baltimore Ravens vs. New England Patriots - Play By Play - January 10, 2010 - ESPN


Baltimore Ravens at 13:13 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at NE 17 W.McGahee up the middle to NE 14 for 3 yards (G.Guyton).
2nd and 7 at NE 14 W.McGahee left guard to NE 11 for 3 yards (V.Wilfork, J.Mayo).
3rd and 4 at NE 11 R.Rice left tackle to NE 6 for 5 yards (L.Bodden, B.Meriweather).
1st and 6 at NE 6 C.Chester reported in as eligible. R.Rice right end to NE 1 for 5 yards (J.Sanders).
2nd and 1 at NE 1 H.Ngata and C.Chester reported in as eligible. L.McClain up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

a couple of 5 yard runs and a couple of 3 yard runs, not earth shatteringly bad.

Baltimore Ravens at 6:49 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at NE 25 C.Chester reported in as eligible. W.McGahee left tackle to NE 25 for no gain (J.Mayo, V.Wilfork).
2nd and 10 at NE 25 W.McGahee left tackle to NE 16 for 9 yards (J.Sanders).
3rd and 1 at NE 16 (No Huddle) J.Flacco up the middle to NE 15 for 1 yard (J.Seau, V.Wilfork).
1st and 10 at NE 15 J.Flacco pass short right to W.McGahee pushed ob at NE 2 for 13 yards (J.Mayo).
1st and 2 at NE 2 H.Ngata and C.Chester reported in as eligible. R.Rice up the middle to NE 1 for 1 yard (V.Wilfork, J.Seau).
2nd and 1 at NE 1 R.Rice left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. 20 0
B.Cundiff extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Katula, Holder-S.K

One McGahee 9 yarder, and a few 1 yard gains... not terrible.

Baltimore Ravens at 2:07 BAL NWE
1st and 10 at BAL 4 C.Chester reported in as eligible. L.McClain left tackle to BLT 8 for 4 yards (J.Green, G.Guyton).
2nd and 6 at BAL 8 W.McGahee left guard to BLT 12 for 4 yards (V.Wilfork, T.Warren).
Timeout #1 by NE at 01:54.
3rd and 2 at BAL 12 C.Chester and H.Ngata reported in as eligible. W.McGahee left tackle to BLT 15 for 3 yards (T.Warren).
1st and 10 at BAL 15 W.McGahee left tackle to BLT 17 for 2 yards (J.Sanders).
Timeout #2 by NE at 01:09.
2nd and 8 at BAL 17 W.McGahee left end pushed ob at BLT 23 for 6 yards (L.Bodden, J.Mayo).
3rd and 2 at BAL 23 W.McGahee left guard to BLT 26 for 3 yards (T.Banta-Cain, J.Seau).
1st and 10 at BAL 26 J.Flacco kneels to BLT 25 for -1 yards.

This wasn't a great one to watch, and was frustrating, but it came at the end of a half that saw the offense take 7 drives and run less than 4 plays per drive. Any defense might be getting a little gassed at that point.

 

[Rob0729]

Unless you're going to claim that they Seymour trade was transformed from bad to good because Welker got injured and that was something to be expected by all, your post doesn't make any sense.

The Ravens were able to destroy the Patriots by running right at Seymour's replacement on the end, and the Patriots couldn't do a damned thing about it. The Chargers just lost to the Jets, a team that the Patriots had thumped a few weeks earlier in the year, and the Colts were a team that the Patriots had demonstrated an ability to compete with earlier in the season.

I'm sure that it's fun pretending it was a good trade, because it holds out the prospect of some form of redemption once the pick gets used. It's just that you have to ignore the reality of a wasted 2009 season in order to do that.

I still don't know if Seymour was the difference in this past season. I don't know if the Pats would have won anymore games this year with Seymour. The problems with this team went far beyond the DE position.

Long term it was a good trade since Seymour probably was not going to play here in 2010. It is debatable how much it hurt the Pats in 2009 and we will never know the right answer. The Pats still could have gone 10-6 and lost Wild Card weekend or they could be playing in the AFC Championship Game. I am guessing closer to the former than the latter. Saying we know how much losing him hurt either way is all speculations.

 

[Nunchucks]

I think it is a no brainer that Seymour would have made a dfference. He would have forced a double team from the RDE position, which would have completely changed the complextion of the game.

Jarvais Green and Mike Right just aren't gonna cut it. Heck, they put Wilfork at RDE cause of the mess that was going on there, still, the Patriots didn't have enough beefy talent up front to stop the Ravens.

 

[emoney_33]

Unless you're going to claim that they Seymour trade was transformed from bad to good because Welker got injured and that was something to be expected by all, your post doesn't make any sense.

The Ravens were able to destroy the Patriots by running right at Seymour's replacement on the end, and the Patriots couldn't do a damned thing about it without moving Wilfork off the nose and weakening the team at the very center of the line. The Chargers just lost to the Jets, a team that the Patriots had thumped a few weeks earlier in the year, and the Colts were a team that the Patriots had demonstrated an ability to compete with earlier in the season.

I'm sure that it's fun pretending it was a good trade, because it holds out the prospect of some form of redemption once the pick gets used. It's just that you have to ignore the reality of a wasted 2009 season in order to do that.

1) The Welker injury proves the risk/reward of keeping a guy for one last year rather than accepting a 1st round pick. Since you love hindsight so much, you shouldn't have a problem with this type of analysis.

2) They ran for 3.6 and 3.1 YPC, so it's not like they were trully lining up and running at will. The offense gave that game away and Seymour isn't helping anything. When the offense gives the opponent the ball inside the 25 FOUR times and runs less than 4 plays per drive, no defense is going to succeed.

3) I'm sure it's fun pretending it was a bad trade because you live in a fantasy world. For you to continue to drive the wasted season wagon based on one player is curious. You are far too bitter about the Seymour trade. A 2011 1st rd pick was worth it, no doubt about it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Unless you're going to claim that they Seymour trade was transformed from bad to good because Welker got injured and that was something to be expected by all, your post doesn't make any sense.

The Ravens were able to destroy the Patriots by running right at Seymour's replacement on the end, and the Patriots couldn't do a damned thing about it without moving Wilfork off the nose and weakening the team at the very center of the line. The Chargers just lost to the Jets, a team that the Patriots had thumped a few weeks earlier in the year, and the Colts were a team that the Patriots had demonstrated an ability to compete with earlier in the season.

I'm sure that it's fun pretending it was a good trade, because it holds out the prospect of some form of redemption once the pick gets used. It's just that you have to ignore the reality of a wasted 2009 season in order to do that.

The first run that set the tone went right up the gut with Vince boxed out and Mayo not in position to make the stop and nobody behind him because we were trying to blitz. Rice was heading to the second level out of the gate, and Seymour wasn't going to stop him. Thereafter, the offense had more to do with the unraveling, as Richard termed it, to continue. He doubted he'd have been able to alter the outcome because he knew it was a teamwide execution meltdown. He's been involved in a couple of those and couldn't stop them then, either. The reality is this season was headed towards wasted before he was traded. I don't think Bill necessarily knew that, and it was headed there with or without Welker, but he played the odds Seymour wouldn't be the difference maker between winning it all and not winning it all. In that case, the trade reward was worth the risk.

 

[olschool]

Let's see how it plays out. We could Franchise one, we couldn't Franchise two.

You're signature is looking a little ironic. BB has a whole bunch of guys who can't tackle, and he obviously doesn't know what to do with them.

 

[InRodWeRust]

This makes sense, jump on sports talk radio in the localization of "the only team" he wouldn't think about signing with... Does this not make any sense to anyone else?

No. Makes no sense to me either.

 

[cstjohn17]

a couple of 5 yard runs and a couple of 3 yard runs, not earth shatteringly bad.



One McGahee 9 yarder, and a few 1 yard gains... not terrible.



This wasn't a great one to watch, and was frustrating, but it came at the end of a half that saw the offense take 7 drives and run less than 4 plays per drive. Any defense might be getting a little gassed at that point.

Enough already, when a NFL teams lines up in a power running formation and simply hands off to a RB over and over again it is called domination. It just doesn't happen. My god, if that was good run defense then you are right this team is perfect in every way, no adjustments are necessary.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

What I don't get is last season, on this board, there were threads of "get rid of Seymour" "did he even play today", etc, etc, but once he got traded, he was missed. Pretty hard to say Seymour would of made a difference at all. Unfortunately, we don't have time machines...yet...

That has much less to do with how Seymour actually played and much more to do with which faction was louder. There is definitely a divide in the fanbase when it comes to Seymour.

 

[Deus Irae]

2009 Seymour gives another season of Seymour. The team could then have franchised him had it chosen to do so. Had it decided not to do so, the team could have chosen instead to let him walk for a compensatory pick in the same draft that will have that 1st round pick, and it would likely have been a 3rd round pick in compensation. The team could also have gotten Wilfork signed to a contract extension by now if it had chosen to. Instead, management has decided to lose one player and alienate the other.

So, yes, if you ignore the benefits of having the game's best 3-4 DE on your team for a year or more, and the benefits of getting a compensatory pick for that player should the team not re-sign or franchise him, AND if you ignore the simple reality that you use top picks in the hope of getting players as good as Seymour, yes, it's possible that the deal might end up being a positive for the Patriots.

If you ignore reality, the move was a great one.

But, cheer up everyone. The team finished in the top 10 in scoring defense and made the playoffs! And that's what it's all about, right?