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Revival of the Dynasty

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by VJCPatriot, Feb 6, 2009.

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  1. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    The Patriots have not won a Superbowl championship since 2004. What have they been doing since then?

    2005 10-6 Division Title, Lost to Broncos in Divisional Playoff round, Bailey returns Brady INT for touchdown
    2006 12-4 Division Title, Lost to Colts in AFC Championship game, Peyton Manning's 1st Title, Defensive meltdown in 2nd half
    2007 16-0 Division Title, Perfect Season, Superbowl loss to Giants, Eli Manning's 1st Title, Tyree's miracle catch extends gamewinning drive
    2008 11-5 Missed Playoffs, Brady out for season, Cassel steps up

    All in all, the results are not bad. Most teams would kill to make the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 seasons and to win their Division titles in 3 straight seasons. However compared to the Dynasty years, 2001-2004, the level of success is not as high as is expected in Foxboro.

    Which brings me to my point. The 2009 offseason is likely the most critical year for this team to return to where it wants to be, a football dynasty to be remembered for the ages. The other team that threatens to become a dynasty are the Pittsburgh Steelers who have now won Championships in 2005 and 2008 respectively.

    With Cassel as a trading chip, the Patriots may have the most draft points in the history of their dynasty this year. There are also some impact free agents available on the market that may improve this team's fortune.

    It has become clear that the Pats defense waned this year. A defensive unit that was previously ridden to 3 superbowl titles is missing some key ingredients - #1 shutdown corner (no Law or Asante here), outstanding passrusher/OLB (McGinest is long gone), smashmouth safety (no milloy, no harrison).

    BB will have the draft picks, and after Cassel is traded, he will have the cap space to make a splash in the free agent market. The key is to do the proper grocery shopping. The Patriots dynasty CAN be revived. But the pieces they pick up in 2009 will be CRUCIAL in determining whether or not that happens.
  2. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree on the need for better pocket collapsing players...and hopefully schemes that will result in those players being put in a position to make plays.

    However, I have only seen 2 'shutdown' type corners in my 23 years as a Pats fan: Raymond Clayborn and Ty Law.
    Hopefully, they don't come around once every 15-20years!
  3. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    you must have missed Mike Haynes then...
  4. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    I like this post......

    The drive to be the greatest dynasty of all time is still well within reach. Had we won last year, we would have achieved that already.

    It is very likely at this point that NE will have 2 #'1, 2 #2's and 2 #3's to bring new talent to an already talent loaded team. These choices along with a little help from free agency should go a long way to fill the holes in the "D" you indicated.

    As an original Patriots fan from the very start, the Brady / BB/ Kraft era has been absolutely incredible. But, as they do, I still really want one or two more. Just want to be the all time best franchise ever.......4 in 9 will take care of that, 5 in 10 with two back to backs woudl be even sweeter, but let's take it one at a time!!
  5. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    Man, that is impressive. 49-15 in the last 4 years (82% winning percentage!!!). How did teams like Dallas and the 49er' do in their last 4 years after they won their last super bowl? I am looking for a trend to see if we are bucking the trend.
  6. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it (49-15/82% winning percentage) = the definition of teambuilding in the salary cap era NFL.
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Interesting post - from a certain standpoint, I don't think the dynasty is dead. The fluke Tyree catch was the difference between another Super Bowl or not, and the 16-0 regular season is about as great an achievement as you can have. But given that the media - who is largely responsible for shaping "legacies" - hates the Pats, I'm sure that will go unnoticed.

    The bad news: as I said recently in the draft thread: the 2009 draft will not provide any immediate upgrades for the Pats on the defensive side of the ball. Part of this is just that the Pats have good personnel and good depth, good prospects in the pipeline.

    Unless we had one of the top 3 picks in the draft and could nab Curry, and even then, with the way his stock is rising, #3 might not be high enough.

    The good news is 2009 draft does offer the team the prospect of becoming stacked for the long term at a number of positions.

    The defense may be just fine by moving some parts around (AD to SILB, Bruschi to bench/depth), having the young guys improve (Wheatley/Wilhite, maybe Crable). And that would allow them to think long term as they move towards the draft.

    If they believe they need more immediate impact, it will have to come via trade or free agency.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  8. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    I think any "D" pick in the first round should either start or be in the mix and contribute nicely. I understand your point about depth from last year hopefully making the "leap".......but I still think with all the draft picks we have (and may be getting for Casell), we should be able to mine some immediate help, this in addition to what you mentioned about free agent help as well. Look for a quality corner & starting LB to come our way.

    I totally agree with your point about media hatred / jealousy / vindictiveness, over this team causing their accomplishments to be overlooked or made light of. Can you imagine what would be said if the Colts had the kind of run and success we have had??
  9. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Agreed mostly. Our best team during the SB years IMO was the 2004 team which just so happened to not have a shutdown corner. Asante was in his 2nd year, a couple seasons before he became an elite CB. And opposite him was Randall Gay. So although it would be a luxury to have a guy like Law or the 06-08 Asante, I feel it's a couple slots lower on the list. I think Merriweather can fill Rodney's void although he's not the same type of safety, but would love to have a smashmouth guy to go along with him. Eugene Wilson and Tebucky Jones weren't exactly studs out there but again we were able to get it done. Pass rush you are absolutely right, I do see Vrabel here at least one more season but I feel OLB for the future should be our priority. With the pieces we have in place and the draft picks we are about to recieve, this team (on paper) can be better than the dynasty over the next 5 years.

    OLB
    SS
    CB
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  10. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Whenever someone mentions moving AD inside I think of this and say "no, man":

    [​IMG]
  11. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'm on the "AD to the inside" bandwagon that BOR started, and I don't know specifically if he'd agree w me about this, but I would only move AD inside as a Bruschi replacement, ie, in the only package Bruschi played in, which is the base defense. In those downs, AD would be a huge upgrade in both strength against the run and ability to drop in coverage.

    AD should be on the outside in the nickel packages where his speed and strength off the edge are a factor, he is a very good pass rusher.

    I think that is the best way to maximize AD's many strengths and abnormal speed at his size.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    The problem I see is that there's little value for us inside the top 20 prospects in the 2009 draft as I can see.

    Look at the top 64 on nfldraftscout:
    NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange

    Curry would be a no-brainer, but will be out of reach even with the Cassel trade.

    Brown and Orakpo would just be higher upside versions of Crable, and would not be immediate impact players.

    Cushing would be a decent fit for the Pats, but he's not good value inside the top 20. Maualuga is not a good fit.

    You reach 20 and see Moore, who is a good fit - but he's quite similar to a) what the Pats have and b) what they could get at #23, or their early 2nd rounder (Alphonso Smith, Darius Butler).

    So for now, I am seeing that the sweet spot of this draft is basically in the 20-60 range, which we are fortunate to have many picks in, but IMO, those picks are not likely to contribute short term, necessarily - if they are taken on the defensive side, that is.
  13. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    It's ironic that the ultimate NFL "TEAM" has come to rely so heavily on one player to take us to the promised land every year, but it is what it is, and hopefully Brady comes back with a vengeance this year. What this team needs the most is to get its fire back.

    I agree with your point about the draft. Mayo wasn't perfect, but he's a fluke in terms of his immediate impact.

    People who are going all gaga over this years's draft seem to overlook the fact that, while the Pats are going to have a lot of picks, every other team is looking to "upgrade" in the offseason. The Pats don't own the rights to a magical drafting formula and the loss of Pioli could hurt us this year.
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I expect the Pats to be fairly active in free agency this offeseason. This free agent class is shaping up to be one of the better one in years especially at LB.

    Personally, I think Belichick and Pioli purposely stayed out of free agency to make sure that the Pats maximized their compensatory picks this year. If you look at all of the free agent signings, they were all ones with contracts that wouldn't negatively impact the formula in determining compensatory picks. Asante Samuel should net the Pats a third round pick considering his salary, him getting into the Pro Bowl, and the Eagles going to the NFC Championships. Randall Gay will net the Pats much less.

    I think the Pats will be loading up to make a splash this offseason between the draft and free agency. I expect the defense to be somewhat overhauled in the secondary and potentially at the LB position. I think we may see upgrades at TE and RB (Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk only have so much left and Maroney is going to have a make or break training camp or season).

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Cassel traded before free agency (if it is legal) or on the first few days. I would expect the Pats to sign one of two of the higher profile free agents and even potentially using any compensation from Cassel to trade for one of the franchised players from another team (Nnamdi Asomugha, Karlos Dansby, Terrell Suggs, etc.).
  15. Mountain_Commando

    Mountain_Commando Rookie

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    Given all the 'Trade Brady' discussions, and the fact that Pats went 11-5 without Brady and despite a slew of injuries, I don't think that Pats fans think that a SB is out of the question without TB. Of course, we want him to play because he is one of the best QBs ever, no question. But the point is, the '08 season pretty much proved that the Pats have what it takes as a TEAM and as a system to be SB worthy, Brady or not.

    With that said, it will be a loooong wait to watch the phenom back in action.
  16. PatsDparty

    PatsDparty Rookie

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    I think part of the reason they franchised Cassel early is so once a deal is worked out, it can be completed as soon as possible with little effect on cap room for free agency (not sure if legally they can trade him before the start of FA, but at the very least have a deal worked out so they can trade him on the first day of FA).

    BB has to be licking his chops at the possibility of Suggs, Dansby, and Peppers available this offseason, as well as Asomugha.
  17. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    While I agree, Mike Haynes was pretty good too.:D

    I'm not really sure what the definition of a shut down corner is, but Law and Haynes did get burned gambling occasionally, while also making more big plays.

    Clayborn was definitely not a gambler and really kept the clamps on receivers while still getting his share of interceptions.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  18. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    I agree that it isn't out of the question at all. But in spite of key injuries, an 11-5 record etc., last year tells me that the Pats need one or two high impact McGinest/Law-type players on the defensive side of the ball if we want to have any shot of returning to 2001-2007 form. Seymour is one [for now], maybe AD is another, and hopefully someone like Merriwether or Mayo will turn into another. We definitely need a stud in the secondary somewhere.
  19. Mountain_Commando

    Mountain_Commando Rookie

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    On that, I completely agree with you. I've been hoping and praying that the Defense will be strengthened (significantly). I was hoping that it would have been done last year, but it wasn't. I will continue praying that BB makes it THE top priority this year. We're blessed on the offence, especially with TB. But the old adage is inescapable, 'Defence wins games', and I think we've all seen that statement proved over and over again since '05.
  20. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, 76.5%. But who's counting?
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