Reiss: Moss played with separated shoulder

[ausbacker]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

The team actually did show more diversity as the season went along, look at the Buffalo game and how many times Brady threw the ball. That game plan was definitely more running based. With Carolina's poor run defense a run first game plan would have most likely gotten the job done.

You cannot compare your shoulder injury to Moss', you dont know the exact nature of his injury compared to yours and a NFL player is going to react differently recovering from an injury to just an average citizen. And if Moss' shoulder was so horrible in nature why did he have such a great season that he did? He could definitely play with that injury, the Carolina game he just didnt give any effort. I am commending Moss for playing with separated shoulder and playing to a level that he did, but the questioning of his effort in the Carolina game is definitely warranted.

What makes you think I am just an average citizen? Because I post on a Patriots forum? I understand well and truly the implications of shoulder injuries in sport and their debilitating nature, even in spite of pain killing injections.

 

[stavros27]

"Where is your proof that he was blocking downfield throughout that game because many media members who watched the whole game tape have concluded that he didnt do this."

Besides seeing it myself during the game, Jaws and Hoge seem to be 2 of the only media members to watch the game tape which showed more than what we could all see on tv. They agreed that his effort wasn't the issue. He had a poor game. Just like Brady and everyone else in the league, players can have poor games statistically without their effort being the root of the problem.

 

[patsfan13]

Bottom line he sucked it up and played hurt. With respect to the Carolina game, how do we know there wasn't another injury involved that week?

Nothing in his time with the team should have led anyone to think he wasn't giving an honest effort. HE had earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bottom line he sucked it up and played hurt. With respect to the Carolina game, how do we know there wasn't another injury involved that week?

Nothing in his time with the team should have led anyone to think he wasn't giving an honest effort. HE had earned the benefit of the doubt.

Clearly there is disagreement on this issue.

 

[Mossed]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Yea he clearly wasn't playing 100% after the first few weeks. But would a seperated shoulder stop him from running as fast as he used to? I could see it as being a reason why he didnt go vertical as much and went down easy.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Yea he clearly wasn't playing 100% after the first few weeks. But would a seperated shoulder stop him from running as fast as he used to? I could see it as being a reason why he didnt go vertical as much and went down easy.

A shoulder will affect running, but not as much as a Moss' problematic back that was reported.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Take it easy, bud.

I am not questioning Moss' effort as a Patriot at all, I am questioning his effort in the Carolina game. I actually commended Moss for playing with a separated shoulder in one of my earlier posts. His effort in the Carolina game definitely has a right to be criticized.

He was a Patriot in the Carolina game right? Oh wait he just decided to, in his 3rd year, ya know "quit". Yet he still blocked and played the entire game even though he "quit". He still played virtually every snap even though he "quit". He still drew double teams even though he "quit".

In the Carolina game it was apparent he didnt give his best effort and a number of plays illustrated that, even his body language suggested that.

The body language debate lol. Champ Bailey says Moss is deceptive and you can't tell anything about his effort based on body language, but you in your infinite wisdom can determine his effort level based on 4-5 plays you watched on the TV feed? LOL

When a player is walking around with shrugged shoulders, not talking to his QB on the sidelines is that someone that is fully involved in the game giving his best effort?

Quick question, who shows you the sidelines? How often do the cameras show you the sidelines? How often does a WR in the NFL sit somewhere other than right next to his QB? Come on man, you really need to get a grip and get some perspective.

You say body language doesnt mean anything, but if someone is involved in the game talking to their offense and QB would their effort ever be questioned?

No one not named Randy Moss has their effort questioned after a bad game or quiet sideline. I don't know what world you live in but there is not one WR that talks to his QB all the time he is on the sideline in every game. There is also not a single TV feed that shows you the sideline for the entire game.

You have had no proof to show that Moss did in fact give his best effort in that game.

I don't need proof, innocent until proven guilty. And his track record as a Patriot speaks for itself, along with his peers voting him captain 2 years in a row. You trully need to stop letting the media feed you your opinion. And yes showing you what they want you to see on TV to shape your opinion is kind of feeding.

The DB who covered Moss said Moss didnt give his best effort, BB deflected the question many times when asked about Moss' effort and numerous media members including former hall of fame WR's themselves questioned his effort in that game. When you can provide evidence that he did give his best effort in the Carolina game I'd be more than happy to listen, but you havent had any support for your claim.

The fact that he blocked, the fact that he has not "quit" in 3 years as a Patriot, the fact that all his teammates defended him, the fact that no matter what the media says his teammtes continue to defend the guy even from his Oakland days.

What part of Moss treating the media like sh*t do you not understand? DO you think the media will go out of their way to correct the perception? And please don't use Carolina's Gamble as "proof" lol.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

What makes you think I am just an average citizen? Because I post on a Patriots forum? I understand well and truly the implications of shoulder injuries in sport and their debilitating nature, even in spite of pain killing injections.

So are you like secretly Colt McCoy and know what it is like to sustain a separated shoulder in a high level football game? I mean are you saying that you separated your shoulder in your career of playing football or even at work and know what he went through? Separating your shoulder in Pop Warner or high school or at work is a lot different from the NFL or college. The pain that these players can play through cannot be matched by anyone else in the world, also the treatment that they can get you cannot get at any other level. You cannot compare your injury to Randy Moss' injury.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

i've been critical of randy this year and will now apologize. i should have known.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

He was a Patriot in the Carolina game right? Oh wait he just decided to, in his 3rd year, ya know "quit". Yet he still blocked and played the entire game even though he "quit". He still played virtually every snap even though he "quit". He still drew double teams even though he "quit".

I am not going to address every single point that you made because that is ridiculous and you were essentially saying the same thing.

Bottom line is I am only criticizing Moss' effort in the Panthers game, not any other game in his career because I feel like he has given his best effort in all his games as a Patriot and even more this season playing with a separated shoulder. I have also never said he "quit", I said that he did play that particular game with much effort.

You cannot say the media brought this upon Moss, anyone that watched that game could tell that Moss didnt give it is all in that game. The media didnt need to influence anyones opinion on this subject. If you happen to see the sideline shots in most games when the defense is on the field Brady and Moss are usually discussing what was happening out on the field, what was working, not working, etc. In that game Brady even said himself he had to keep Moss in the game by trying to motivate him try and get some energy in him. They werent going over plays and what the defense was doing, Brady was motivating Moss. When the QB needs to motivate his all pro receiver he clearly isnt giving his best effort.

And when I asked for proof that Moss did give it his best effort and all you could come back was "innocent until proven guilty". Thats terrible. My proof is Chris Gamble, and why cant I use him? He was the one that lined up across from him every snap, I think he can tell if he gave it his best effort. You telling me I cannot use Gamble as proof is like saying I cant use the dictionary when asked to define a word. Gamble is the source, he had the best view and perspective out of anyone on the field.

Also, there have been many media members who have said that Moss did in fact not give it his best effort. Hall of fame WR and former teammate of Moss called it "pitiful". I think Carter knows what Moss can and cannot do on the field, he played with Moss. Carter has access to the same tapes as Hodge and Jaws. Those guys didnt play WR, they dont know exactly what WR's are supposed to do on every play. Carter has a better view and perspective on that. The bottom line is Moss didnt give his best effort in that one particular game, like you said he had a bad game. He was forgiven and everyone has moved on. He is still the future WR that he has always been.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

So are you like secretly Colt McCoy and know what it is like to sustain a separated shoulder in a high level football game? I mean are you saying that you separated your shoulder in your career of playing football or even at work and know what he went through? Separating your shoulder in Pop Warner or high school or at work is a lot different from the NFL or college. The pain that these players can play through cannot be matched by anyone else in the world, also the treatment that they can get you cannot get at any other level. You cannot compare your injury to Randy Moss' injury.

Nope, but I have had to throw things with a shoulder injury at a higher level than College Football. Keep up that condescending tone. It's doing wonders for your point of view.

 

[emoney_33]

I'm actually not even going to read that last post, I'm completely done with this body language bull**** that you guys are so fond of. Continue to believe you any ability whatsoever to judge effort on 5 plays you saw on TV. I'm not even blaming the Panthers game on injury, I'm saying straight up he had a bad game but it wasn't because of effort, and never will be. But feel free to go nitpick at all the bad games of every other WR too. Or just continue to be fooled and/or biased, whatever floats your boat.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

By far the laziest shoulder known to mankind

 

[PatsChamp88]

Moss only needs one hand..I mean arm er shoulder...

 

[bigfandan]

Two thoughts: first, It would make sense to sit him out to rest and heal for the Houston game. Second, he would be used a decoy most of time. Stretching his body out and making tough catches could cause additional damage.

 

[The Dynasty]

I'm actually not even going to read that last post, I'm completely done with this body language bull**** that you guys are so fond of. Continue to believe you any ability whatsoever to judge effort on 5 plays you saw on TV. I'm not even blaming the Panthers game on injury, I'm saying straight up he had a bad game but it wasn't because of effort, and never will be. But feel free to go nitpick at all the bad games of every other WR too. Or just continue to be fooled and/or biased, whatever floats your boat.

Didnt mention body language once in that whole post. Its more than plays that you see, it was the way he was acting and conversing with Brady and others on the sidelines. WR's have bad games all the time, but for the most part they are not because of a lack of effort, Moss' bad game was because of a lack of effort. You are entitled to your opinion, but atleast be open to the other side especially when they have proof for their opinion.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Nope, but I have had to throw things with a shoulder injury at a higher level than College Football. Keep up that condescending tone. It's doing wonders for your point of view.

Still it doesnt compare to the NFL. Back to your original point...are you blaming his bad game vs. the Panthers on his shoulder? What about all the other games that he played in with the same injury? His effort never came into question in those games.

 

[emoney_33]

Didnt mention body language once in that whole post. Its more than plays that you see, it was the way he was acting and conversing with Brady and others on the sidelines.

LOL conversing now equates with effort, good grief.

WR's have bad games all the time, but for the most part they are not because of a lack of effort,

Yeah no sh*t, and that includes Moss.

Moss' bad game was because of a lack of effort.

No it wasn't, no matter how much you want to believe it.

You are entitled to your opinion, but atleast be open to the other side especially when they have proof for their opinion.

I am very open minded, except when all the facts and logic point one way and people try to argue something blatantly absurd and hypocritical.

Go watch Colts games of past, you can find many games where Marvin Harrison is sitting alone in silence. So he wasn't giving effort then right? what a quitter! You can do the same for every receiver or just about any player to ever play the game. But you choose to see the images only from the microscope that is put on Moss.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Still it doesnt compare to the NFL. Back to your original point...are you blaming his bad game vs. the Panthers on his shoulder? What about all the other games that he played in with the same injury? His effort never came into question in those games.

You're absolutely right The Dynasty. It doesn't compare to the NFL.

I'm not blaming anything on anything. I said I understood how debilitating a shoulder injury was to an elite level sports person. You invented from there.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Still it doesnt compare to the NFL. Back to your original point...are you blaming his bad game vs. the Panthers on his shoulder? What about all the other games that he played in with the same injury? His effort never came into question in those games.

Bad game instantly equates to poor effort... only for Moss. But when you are that good, and diss the media, I guess people just look for reasons to bring you down.