Reiss: Moss played with separated shoulder

[ausbacker]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

If Moss was so hurt that he could not help the team then I would expect that he wouldnt take the field that week. The team could devise an alternate game plan to off set the loss of Moss. A more run dominated game plan, especially vs a team like Carolina which was so weak against the run.

Be serious would you. The team in play call and philosophy hadn't shown much of a penchant for diversity all season did it.

Some people underestimate the debilitating nature of shoulder injuries. I had 2 operations to repair the same injury, both which made it difficult to even move my arm past 90 degrees. That was shoulder impingement.

The teams was brutally banged up this season.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

What kind of effort should he put up with a separated shoulder?

And, if he shouldn't have played, then we're out there with Aiken and Stanback as starting WRs with Welker.

Why do you think the Patriots kept this hidden?

1. The effort that Moss put in the Carolina game wasnt the same as he put in any of the other games that he presumably played with a separated shoulder. Any effort would be good. I mean just because he has a separated shoulder and showing up, that isnt really doing the team any good. He actually has to give an effort, which he did all season except the Carolina game and I commend him for that. Bottom line is the Carolina game Moss did not play with the same energy or effort that he did in any other games during the season so his effort can be questioned regardless of an injury or not.

2. If Moss' shoulder was so severely hurt in the Carolina game that he couldnt give any effort then he didnt belong on the field that day. The Patriots could have devised an alternate game plan especially a more run dominate one considering the Panthers were so weak against the run. The Pats didnt even need to rule Moss out if they wanted, they could have listed him as questionable all week.

3. The Patriots kept his injury hidden just like they do of every injury a team member has. Look at Brady, did they ever reveal what his injury was? The extent of Matt Lights injury wasnt revealed until after the season as well. The Patriots always contain injury information with any player, that is something a BB coached team will always do.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

So now we know why he had alligator arms all season.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Be serious would you. The team in play call and philosophy hadn't shown much of a penchant for diversity all season did it.

Some people underestimate the debilitating nature of shoulder injuries. I had 2 operations to repair the same injury, both which made it difficult to even move my arm past 90 degrees. That was shoulder impingement.

The teams was brutally banged up this season.

The team actually did show more diversity as the season went along, look at the Buffalo game and how many times Brady threw the ball. That game plan was definitely more running based. With Carolina's poor run defense a run first game plan would have most likely gotten the job done.

You cannot compare your shoulder injury to Moss', you dont know the exact nature of his injury compared to yours and a NFL player is going to react differently recovering from an injury to just an average citizen. And if Moss' shoulder was so horrible in nature why did he have such a great season that he did? He could definitely play with that injury, the Carolina game he just didnt give any effort. I am commending Moss for playing with separated shoulder and playing to a level that he did, but the questioning of his effort in the Carolina game is definitely warranted.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

In that case, was Brady dogging it in the Ravens game? He certainly wasn't "working his tail off" when he threw the ball to the other team.

Making bad throws and not running crisp clean routes are two completely different things. I think Brady was "working his tail off" in the Ravens game, he just made bad throws, that is just part of the game. Look at Favre's INT in the NFCCG, was he not giving his best effort on that play? INT's are part of the game and definitely not an effort thing. Not running crisp routes that you have proven you can do time and time again is an effort thing. Two completely different things, terrible argument.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Well now that was obvious to the non-haters. (Not the specific injury)

Yup- funny how any of us that brought up him being obviously injured before now were pretty much dismissed.

 

[stavros27]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Making bad throws and not running crisp clean routes are two completely different things. I think Brady was "working his tail off" in the Ravens game, he just made bad throws, that is just part of the game. Look at Favre's INT in the NFCCG, was he not giving his best effort on that play? INT's are part of the game and definitely not an effort thing. Not running crisp routes that you have proven you can do time and time again is an effort thing. Two completely different things, terrible argument.

But..you stated that he was dogging it when he dropped a pass, did you not? How can Brady be regarded as making a bad throw and not dogging it when he gets picked, but Moss dropping a pass means he didn't try to catch it?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

If Moss was so hurt that he could not help the team then I would expect that he wouldnt take the field that week. The team could devise an alternate game plan to off set the loss of Moss. A more run dominated game plan, especially vs a team like Carolina which was so weak against the run.

He did help the team that's what you aren't grasping. The Panthers doubled Moss, thus helping the rest of the team. Aiken would have altered what the defense could do. So once again he played hurt to HELP the team. Fact of the matter is in 2009 Moss just lining up was a better alternative than any of the other receivers on the team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Making bad throws and not running crisp clean routes are two completely different things. I think Brady was "working his tail off" in the Ravens game, he just made bad throws, that is just part of the game. Look at Favre's INT in the NFCCG, was he not giving his best effort on that play? INT's are part of the game and definitely not an effort thing. Not running crisp routes that you have proven you can do time and time again is an effort thing. Two completely different things, terrible argument.

And Brady has proven time and time again that he can complete passes. Your definition of the difference between "dogging it" and "being hurt" needs some work...

 

[Teenuh]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Revis and the Panthers CBs are all white?

Revis is a child like his coach. And the Panther CBs? Umm I can't even tell you who they are so that says it all... lol

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

1. The effort that Moss put in the Carolina game wasnt the same as he put in any of the other games that he presumably played with a separated shoulder. Any effort would be good. I mean just because he has a separated shoulder and showing up, that isnt really doing the team any good. He actually has to give an effort, which he did all season except the Carolina game and I commend him for that. Bottom line is the Carolina game Moss did not play with the same energy or effort that he did in any other games during the season so his effort can be questioned regardless of an injury or not.

What are you judging this level of "effort" on. Are you judging the entire game based on the 4-5 minimal information plays you saw on TV? Are you judging based on bottom line output? I suppose run blocking is not giving effort either.

2. If Moss' shoulder was so severely hurt in the Carolina game that he couldnt give any effort then he didnt belong on the field that day. The Patriots could have devised an alternate game plan especially a more run dominate one considering the Panthers were so weak against the run. The Pats didnt even need to rule Moss out if they wanted, they could have listed him as questionable all week.

He gave as much effort as he could, you are judging his effort based on opinion. And once again an injured Moss taking double teams is BETTER FOR THE TEAM than a healthy Aiken.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

The team actually did show more diversity as the season went along, look at the Buffalo game and how many times Brady threw the ball. That game plan was definitely more running based. With Carolina's poor run defense a run first game plan would have most likely gotten the job done.

You cannot compare your shoulder injury to Moss', you dont know the exact nature of his injury compared to yours and a NFL player is going to react differently recovering from an injury to just an average citizen. And if Moss' shoulder was so horrible in nature why did he have such a great season that he did? He could definitely play with that injury, the Carolina game he just didnt give any effort. I am commending Moss for playing with separated shoulder and playing to a level that he did, but the questioning of his effort in the Carolina game is definitely warranted.

Sorry but that is simply a crock of ****. Some of you need to just get off your high horses. Questioning his effort as a Patriot is 100% as unwarranted as questioning the effort of Brady, Welker, Faulk and anyone else on the team.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Making bad throws and not running crisp clean routes are two completely different things. I think Brady was "working his tail off" in the Ravens game, he just made bad throws, that is just part of the game. Look at Favre's INT in the NFCCG, was he not giving his best effort on that play? INT's are part of the game and definitely not an effort thing. Not running crisp routes that you have proven you can do time and time again is an effort thing. Two completely different things, terrible argument.

Your argument is actually terrible because it's based on body-language, media-microscope, a tiny-subset of plays/information, and a whole boatload of opinion and conjecture.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

But..you stated that he was dogging it when he dropped a pass, did you not? How can Brady be regarded as making a bad throw and not dogging it when he gets picked, but Moss dropping a pass means he didn't try to catch it?

He was "dogging it" on the sideline INT play when he didnt break off his route as quick and he usually does and thats why the pass was intercepted. On the dropped ball play can you honestly say he was giving his best effort on that play? I see your point in dropping passes and throwing INTs are on the same level regarding effort vs. execution, but dropping a pass thats in your chest and throwing an INT scrambling out of the pocket trying to find an open WR are different. You havent given any proof as to how Moss gave 100% effort in the Carolina game.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

And Brady has proven time and time again that he can complete passes. Your definition of the difference between "dogging it" and "being hurt" needs some work...

Bottom line is Moss could have definitely given more effort in the Carolina game, and saying he played with a separated shoulder is not an excuse because he played 3/4 of the season with it and still was one of the top WR's in the league.

 

[stavros27]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

He was "dogging it" on the sideline INT play when he didnt break off his route as quick and he usually does and thats why the pass was intercepted. On the dropped ball play can you honestly say he was giving his best effort on that play? I see your point in dropping passes and throwing INTs are on the same level regarding effort vs. execution, but dropping a pass thats in your chest and throwing an INT scrambling out of the pocket trying to find an open WR are different. You havent given any proof as to how Moss gave 100% effort in the Carolina game.

You are twisting those plays in order to help your argument. I don't think for a second that Moss' or Brady's effort should be questioned. But when you are saying Moss wasn't trying to catch balls or run routes, but Brady is off the hook for throwing terrible interceptions, then I see that you will not change your mind.

Here is a question for you...if Moss didn't care about trying in that game, why did he put up his arm the second he noticed that it as going to the outside right to the cornerback? Why did he bother to try to tackle the cornerback? Why was he blocking downfield throughout the game, in a game that he allegedly wasn't trying in?

He had a bad game. When he has a bad game people like you call it giving up. When Brady has a bad game he's just a warrior trying to win.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

Your argument is actually terrible because it's based on body-language, media-microscope, a tiny-subset of plays/information, and a whole boatload of opinion and conjecture.

Take it easy, bud.

I am not questioning Moss' effort as a Patriot at all, I am questioning his effort in the Carolina game. I actually commended Moss for playing with a separated shoulder in one of my earlier posts. His effort in the Carolina game definitely has a right to be criticized. He played the entire season from the Denver game on with a separated shoulder and his effort was not questioned in any of those games, because he gave 100% effort. In the Carolina game it was apparent he didnt give his best effort and a number of plays illustrated that, even his body language suggested that. When a player is walking around with shrugged shoulders, not talking to his QB on the sidelines is that someone that is fully involved in the game giving his best effort? You say body language doesnt mean anything, but if someone is involved in the game talking to their offense and QB would their effort ever be questioned? You have had no proof to show that Moss did in fact give his best effort in that game. The DB who covered Moss said Moss didnt give his best effort, BB deflected the question many times when asked about Moss' effort and numerous media members including former hall of fame WR's themselves questioned his effort in that game. When you can provide evidence that he did give his best effort in the Carolina game I'd be more than happy to listen, but you havent had any support for your claim.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Source: Moss Played with Separated Shoulder

You are twisting those plays in order to help your argument. I don't think for a second that Moss' or Brady's effort should be questioned. But when you are saying Moss wasn't trying to catch balls or run routes, but Brady is off the hook for throwing terrible interceptions, then I see that you will not change your mind.

Here is a question for you...if Moss didn't care about trying in that game, why did he put up his arm the second he noticed that it as going to the outside right to the cornerback? Why did he bother to try to tackle the cornerback? Why was he blocking downfield throughout the game, in a game that he allegedly wasn't trying in?

He had a bad game. When he has a bad game people like you call it giving up. When Brady has a bad game he's just a warrior trying to win.

Throwing your hand up in the air doesnt mean you are putting forth effort, it doesnt take much effort to do that. If Moss just stood there after the INT was made, then there would be no doubt that his effort should be questioned, and I think he would have been benched for the remainder of the game. His so called "tackle" was just pushing the CB out of bounce. You atleast have to look like you are trying out there. Where is your proof that he was blocking downfield throughout that game because many media members who watched the whole game tape have concluded that he didnt do this.

He had a bad game because of poor effort, just because myself and others questioned his effort in that one particular game doesnt mean we're questioning his effort for his entire career. Its one game. He is one of the best WRs in the game and on the team that I love, it doesnt mean that I cannot question his effort. There is nothing wrong with doing that. Again, I am asking for proof to show that he gave his best effort in that game.

 

[RichSeymour]

He's dogged it every year he's been in the league. He even said when he was with Minnesota "I play when I want to play". Great player but the truth is that he doesn't give 100% at times. This story doesn't prove anything.

 

[upstater1]

He's dogged it every year he's been in the league. He even said when he was with Minnesota "I play when I want to play". Great player but the truth is that he doesn't give 100% at times. This story doesn't prove anything.

Players dog it at every position but cornerback and running back. Seymour dogs it, Adalius dogs it, CBs dog it, they all do. Not Bruschi or Harrison or those guys, but most others.