Qb 2 & qb 3???

[livinginthe past]

For all intents and purposes Hoyer has no trade value, in my opinion.

Belichick will be well aware that he is sitting on QB stocks that have come no where close to maturing and realising their value.

Maybe Hoyer is worth a 6 or 7 right now, but the point is moot simply because Belichick would never trade him for that.

I expect the Hoyer situation will shake itself out next year - depending on what sort of playing time he has been able to acquire.

I can't see how he would possibly be worth anything close to a second right now - spending time with Brady and Belichick doesn't automatically mean their greatness rubs off on you.

 

[Shelterdog]

I'm not trying to convince you of this. I'm telling you it has happened already. Numerous times. It's not impossible if it's been done several times.

Look at the deals you mentioned more carefully and you'll see that a "Hoyer type trade"-a player who NFL teams overlooked who then made an NFL team and never played but then got traded for a decent pick-has only happend once.

Charlie Whitehurst was a third round pick so he's out.

Henson was a sixth round pick in 2003 but that's because he was playing pro baseball full time and in the middle of a 6 year 17 million baseball contact; he would have been a first round pick (maybe number one overall in 2000) if he was playing football.

The one time it happened was when Holmgrem went to Seattle and trade for Hasselback, who had been in the system for three years. If there's a similar confluence of events (Nick Caserio and O'Brien start running Arizona in 2012 for example) then I could imagine them giving up a bunch for Hoyer.

Everything chances if he does play meaningful minutes and plays well--then all of the sudden he's in AJ Feely/Scott Mitchell/Rob Johnson/Kolb/Cassel territory and they will get real value. But absent highly unusual circumstances nobody's giving up anything of value for Hoyer.

 

[Triumph]

Hoyer has more value to New England than he does to any team in this league.

He does not have the arm strength on short throws.

I'm looking forward to the reports from Training Camp, the difference between a Hoyer 15 yard out and a Mallett 15 yard out is going to be huge.

Mallet had the 2nd strongest arm in the draft.

Kapernick threw the ball 59 mph and Mallet threw 58 mph.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Mallet had the 2nd strongest arm in the draft.

Kapernick threw the ball 59 mph and Mallet threw 58 mph.

Lol........

 

[Triumph]

Look at Rosenfels record compared to Hoyers. He has a 62.5% completion percentage, he's started games in four different seasons.

What about Rosenfels wouldn't be worth a fourth if you needed a backup with some experience?

What about Hoyers actual production would?

We tend to think the other 31 teams only want our players, but that's not the case.

Is there a statistic on trades involving UDFA QBs with 42 career passes?

Remember when some thought Rohan Davey was worth a 1st rounder?

Boy, those were the days.

 

[TheSolderKing]

For all intents and purposes Hoyer has no trade value, in my opinion.

IGNORANT STATEMENT

especially in the



YouTube - Cartman - Heat of The Moment Full Video

 

[Triumph]

Lol........

According to a league source with knowledge of the situation, Kaepernick threw the football 59 miles per hour. Kaepernick is a former Chicago Cubs draft selection and an all-state baseball player who threw 94 miles per hour.


That edged out Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett (58 miles per hour) and Auburn quarterback Cam Newton (56 miles per hour).

Source: Colin Kaepernick meets with 14 teams, has strongest arm at combine | National Football Post

 

[TheSolderKing]

According to a league source with knowledge of the situation, Kaepernick threw the football 59 miles per hour. Kaepernick is a former Chicago Cubs draft selection and an all-state baseball player who threw 94 miles per hour.


That edged out Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett (58 miles per hour) and Auburn quarterback Cam Newton (56 miles per hour).

Source: Colin Kaepernick meets with 14 teams, has strongest arm at combine | National Football Post

Drew Hennsen what?


lmao

 

[crowell33]

Mallet had the 2nd strongest arm in the draft.

Kapernick threw the ball 59 mph and Mallet threw 58 mph.

That measurement was taken indoors, on a eye level throw for a total of 9 yards, without full football equipment on. And you think that means that Kapernick has a stronger arm than Mallet ?

I will only concede that indoors, in a TV studio, with no wind, no helmet being worn, no defense, with no offense line to throw over, that Kapernick can throw a ball through a hoop, about 5 feet off the ground, 9 yards in front of himself, one (1) MPH faster than Mallet.

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2011/02/28/colin-kaepernick-strongest-arm-in-the-draft/

 

[AzPatsFan]

I'll keep typing shortcuts and abbreviations b/c it saves time.


I'll worry about my 3.5 GPA as a History/BA Major w/ 1 semester left

Overschooled and undereducated drones abound throughout the World...

 

[patsinthesnow]

That measurement was taken indoors, on a eye level throw for a total of 9 yards, without full football equipment on. And you think that means that Kapernick has a stronger arm than Mallet ?

I will only concede that indoors, in a TV studio, with no wind, no helmet being worn, no defense, with no offense line to throw over, that Kapernick can throw a ball through a hoop, about 5 feet off the ground, 9 yards in front of himself, one (1) MPH faster than Mallet.

Colin Kaepernick: Strongest Arm in the Draft? » NFL Gridiron Gab

That's why I said lol, thanks. Mallett has one of the strongest arms in the NFL right now (doesn't say anything, look at Jamarcus, who may have had the strongest arm ever).

I don't understand that test, this isn't baseball pitching. Have both of them throw a 50 yard strike, you will see a difference.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess I'm in way over my head, here.

I didn't know I was dealing with a mind reader.

Well you are in way over your head, but there is no mind reading necessary.
The Lions intended all along to use the first pick on Stafford.
They made zero effort to trade for Matt Cassell.
So your original suggestion that we were offered #33 for Cassell is wrong on fact, and doubly wrong because you imply Belichick preferred #34 for 2 players instead of #33 for 1.

 

[Shelterdog]

Well you are in way over your head, but there is no mind reading necessary.
The Lions intended all along to use the first pick on Stafford.
They made zero effort to trade for Matt Cassell.
So your original suggestion that we were offered #33 for Cassell is wrong on fact, and doubly wrong because you imply Belichick preferred #34 for 2 players instead of #33 for 1.

The thinking at the time was that they were dumping Vrabel no matter what but making sure he went out of the AFC East (instead of cutting him and letting him go to the Dolphins, Bills or Jets, all of whom were looking for 3-4 OLBs) was worth taking 34 instead of 33.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The thinking at the time was that they were dumping Vrabel no matter what but making sure he went out of the AFC East (instead of cutting him and letting him go to the Dolphins, Bills or Jets, all of whom were looking for 3-4 OLBs) was worth taking 34 instead of 33.

Thank you, Afailius Thomas. :enranged:

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Look at the deals you mentioned more carefully and you'll see that a "Hoyer type trade"-a player who NFL teams overlooked who then made an NFL team and never played but then got traded for a decent pick-has only happend once.

Charlie Whitehurst was a third round pick so he's out.

Henson was a sixth round pick in 2003 but that's because he was playing pro baseball full time and in the middle of a 6 year 17 million baseball contact; he would have been a first round pick (maybe number one overall in 2000) if he was playing football.

The one time it happened was when Holmgrem went to Seattle and trade for Hasselback, who had been in the system for three years. If there's a similar confluence of events (Nick Caserio and O'Brien start running Arizona in 2012 for example) then I could imagine them giving up a bunch for Hoyer.

Everything chances if he does play meaningful minutes and plays well--then all of the sudden he's in AJ Feely/Scott Mitchell/Rob Johnson/Kolb/Cassel territory and they will get real value. But absent highly unusual circumstances nobody's giving up anything of value for Hoyer.

I don't understand the obsession with Hoyer being undrafted. It was two years ago, and he's progressed quite a bit since that time.

Draft position doesn't matter after the draft. Is Brian Brohm a better QB prospect than Matt Flynn because he was drafted 5 rounds ahead of him? Clearly Brohm was the better prospect at the draft, yet Green Bay kept Flynn and cut Brohm a year later.

And we can argue about how those QBs were different than Hoyer, just remember it's a two-way street. You point out what those guys have going for them over Hoyer (mainly being drafted), but don't overlook what Hoyer has over them.

Like how Hoyer won the primary (and only) back-up, while Whitehurst was a 3rd-stringer for 4 years because he couldn't beat out Billy Volek. Or how Hoyer had actually thrown an NFL pass in the past 4 years, unlike Henson.

Meaningful minutes would help, but they're not necessary as Whitehurst and Henson proved.

My argument is promising young QBs have more value than 7th-round draft picks. Your argument is Hoyer was undrafted so he can't be promising.

 

[Triumph]

That measurement was taken indoors, on a eye level throw for a total of 9 yards, without full football equipment on. And you think that means that Kapernick has a stronger arm than Mallet ?

Thats what the NFP says. Evidently somebody who grades future NFL QBs uses this to judge arm strength.

I will only concede that indoors, in a TV studio, with no wind, no helmet being worn, no defense, with no offense line to throw over, that Kapernick can throw a ball through a hoop, about 5 feet off the ground, 9 yards in front of himself, one (1) MPH faster than Mallet.

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2011/02/28/colin-kaepernick-strongest-arm-in-the-draft/

Yada, yada, yada.

It was good to see that Mallet has one of the stronger arms.

 

[Shelterdog]

My argument is promising young QBs have more value than 7th-round draft picks. Your argument is Hoyer was undrafted so he can't be promising.

No, my argument is that other teams won't be willing to trade much for him until they see him play well in meaningful minutes.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

No, my argument is that other teams won't be willing to trade much for him until they see him play well in meaningful minutes.

Yet he's played more meaningful minutes than Whitehurst or Henson.

 

[Triumph]

I don't understand the obsession with Hoyer being undrafted. It was two years ago, and he's progressed quite a bit since that time.

How has Hoyer progressed?

All his 7 completions last season came in the last Miami game. His 47% completion percentage is worse than Mark Sanchez. For 2010, Hoyer threw 1 TD and 1 INT.

Hoyer has never started an regular season NFL game and won it.

 

[supafly]

No, my argument is that other teams won't be willing to trade much for him until they see him play well in meaningful minutes.

I can agree with this.

Yet he's played more meaningful minutes than Whitehurst or Henson.

I can agree with this too. I think you both have a valid point.

I think the hype of Henson, and also for Whitehurst (for whatever reason) helped their cases. The same goes for Kolb, who we hear about every day it seems.

I don't see Hoyer as having any kind of hype as of yet, but only time will tell. Increased valuable game reps would obviously help. I can't imagine him having anything better than a 4th-5th round trade value as of now--but that could obviously increase to around a 3rd maybe, and that's a big 'IF' he can prove himself, and also (unfortuantely) to the mediots to gain some attention and hype. Along with the hype, you will surely find a GM somewhere who seems to buy into it.

For those who value Hoyer as a 2nd round trade bait value--- I would ask 'why' exactly you would forsee that??