Qb 2 & qb 3???

[Sciz]

It's not like Hoyer would be cheap though. Any team trading for him with the plan of him being their starter (which I don't see happening this offseason) is going to have to give him starter money as part of the trade.

 

[Miguel]

Further, claiming that Cassel did not yield a second round pick is disingenuous.

So repeating a fact is disingenuous.

Cassel and Vrabel were indeed traded for a second-round pick. That is simply a fact.

IMO, there are some people reading this thread who may not know or may not remember that Vrabel was included in the trade.

My main point is why I should value Lombardi's opinion on Hoyer now when he was so wrong about Cassel's value.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

It's not like Hoyer would be cheap though. Any team trading for him with the plan of him being their starter (which I don't see happening this offseason) is going to have to give him starter money as part of the trade.

Not necessarily. Whitehurst got 2 years for $8M total. Not super cheap, but not bad. He didn't win the starting job, but still pretty decent contract as he should be the starter moving forward this season. Henson got an 8-year deal which was basically voidable to 4-years, and only $3.5M guaranteed. He only lasted one year mind you, and only one start.

Cassel and Schaub were higher-profile players, and they got bigger contracts to reflect that. But Hoyer would probably fall closer to Whitehurst territory.

 

[moosekill]

I don't have the article saved. PATS Cassel was offered a #1 from Denver

I guess I don't know my stuff. The Bleacher Report backs what I said...

apparently it is credible and way more so than AJ:rocker:

what o I know what does Lombardi know


I guess we r toooopid:bricks:


QB's are WHERE IT BEGINS. u want that kid w/ Pro EXP or a college unknown


EXP is every thing in life.

I'm sorry, and if you can't type I understand, and I'm sorry, but if there is no physical reason you can't type, type out your comments.

 

[moosekill]

I am NOT ashamed of myself.

I happen to think that Lombardi knew or should have known the 2008 franchise tag number when he opined about Cassel's trade value.

I guess if you are arguing Lombardi is an idiot, that is fine, and I agree. If you are arguing a team won't discount a player with a $15 million dollar price tag over a player with a $500,000 price tag, I would disagree.

 

[Miguel]

I guess if you are arguing Lombardi is an idiot, that is fine, and I agree.

I like to leave the name-calling and personal attacks to others. My main point is why I should value Lombardi's opinion on Hoyer now when he was so wrong about Cassel's value. A person can be wrong once and not be an idiot.

Cassel trade talk opens with high 1st-rounder - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

Lombardi - "Michael Lombardi, who last week was the first to report the Patriots would put the franchise tag on Cassel, said the starting price should be the draft choices the San Diego Chargers received for Eli Manning.

At the 2004 draft, the New York Giants acquired Manning's rights for Philip Rivers' rights along with a third-round pick that year and their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005.

"Whatever the Giants gave up for Eli has to be the market," Lombardi said. "It's got to be a first-rounder, and not the 22nd or 24th pick in the draft. It has to be a substantial one and one that keeps on giving."

If you are arguing a team won't discount a player with a $15 million dollar price tag over a player with a $500,000 price tag, I would disagree.

That is not my argument.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I don't have the article saved. PATS Cassel was offered a #1 from Denver

I guess I don't know my stuff. The Bleacher Report backs what I said...

apparently it is credible and way more so than AJ:rocker:

what o I know what does Lombardi know


I guess we r toooopid:bricks:


QB's are WHERE IT BEGINS. u want that kid w/ Pro EXP or a college unknown


EXP is every thing in life.

maybe denver did offer the pats a #1 for matt but Cassel won 11 games as a starter Hoyer has 42 pass att and 0 starts i cant call that NFL experience at lest not a nuff for a team to give up a 2th round pick and make him there starter

 

[TheSolderKing]

IDC if some of you DOUBT it is your opinion.


The fact of the matter is a QB needy team should desire a young QB w/ NFL experience. QB's r taken all over the board. A 2 for Hoyer is a better bet than a 2 spent on a college QB.



The QB is the most IMPORTANT position on offense. If you have a capable NFL QB it opens up avenues that would have been closed if you miss w/ that unexperience 2nd round college QB:bricks:


2 is a fair price for the most important offensive posiion

especially if u learn from Tom Brady




moose learn to type u said to me?? what r u talking about:bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

I don't have the article saved. PATS Cassel was offered a #1 from Denver

Why would they trade him AND Vrable for a 2nd if they were offered a 1st for him alone.

I guess I don't know my stuff. The Bleacher Report backs what I said...

Apparently not, and no the Bleacher Report and Lombardi do not back up what you said. All that was said was Lombardi said he would try to trade for Hoyer if he were still a GM, not that Hoyer had more value than Kolb, or would get a 2nd.

apparently it is credible and way more so than

AJ:rocker:

It is no more credible than any post on this board. Have you read the Bleacher Report? They are written by fans. There is no credibility beyond a fan passing along something he read, and expanding his own opinion to it.

what o I know what does Lombardi know

Lombardi said no more than he liked Hoyer.

I guess we r toooopid:bricks:

Stupid is as stupid does.

QB's are WHERE IT BEGINS. u want that kid w/ Pro EXP or a college unknown


EXP is every thing in life.

And Hoyer really has none. Most teams will take a guy they rate highly out of college over a guy who went undrafted but spent 2 years holdig a clipboard. Hoyer hasn't really done anything to change the opinions NFL teams had of his ability when they didn't draft him. Is he better than they thought? Possibly, but he has not shown it yet beyond having the confidence of BB, just like Rohan Davey before him.

 

[RayClay]

I don't have the article saved. PATS Cassel was offered a #1 from Denver

I guess I don't know my stuff. The Bleacher Report backs what I said...

apparently it is credible and way more so than AJ:rocker:

what o I know what does Lombardi know


I guess we r toooopid:bricks:


QB's are WHERE IT BEGINS. u want that kid w/ Pro EXP or a college unknown


EXP is every thing in life.

Are you taking hallucinogens while you post? Geez, give it a rest, huh?

 

[RayClay]

Hoyer has no real value, though he's looked composed in limited action.

Cassel was a weird case because he got stuck behind two of the highest rated QBs on the best team in college football.

He stepped in and continually improved and played like a pro against top competition.

Sometimes opportunity meets need, but I'd be surprised if Hoyer could attract a 7th, barring some sort of notable heroics.

 

[Off The Grid]

With all due respect, I too was stunned at Miguel's post. Hoyer's cap number is only $492,000 for one more year and then I believe under current rules, he would become a restricted free agent after next season.

Matt Cassel cost $14,650,000 under the franchise tag.

Further, claiming that Cassel did not yield a second round pick is disingenuous. Cassel was traded for the 34th pick, (nearly a first rounder). Vrabel had a cap number of $4.3 million dollars ( including a $2.2 million base salary and another $1 million in a roster bonus coming due ) in a year that Vrabel would turn 34 before the start of the season. Vrabel played two seasons for the Chiefs averaging one (1) sack per season and zero (0) interceptions.

Had Vrabel not been included in the trade he may have very well been a ( well justified ) cap casualty.

Yup.

Didn't the Lions offer us #33 for Cassel, straight up?? If true, that would clearly show that ~ considering the Salary Cap implications ~ offloading Vrabel's contract was considered more beneficial than retaining his services, to one Coach Belichick.

 

[moosekill]

Yup.

Didn't the Lions offer us #33 for Cassel, straight up?? If true, that would clearly show that ~ considering the Salary Cap implications ~ offloading Vrabel's contract was considered more beneficial than retaining his services, to one Coach Belichick.

No they didn't.

 

[moosekill]

moose learn to type u said to me?? what r u talking about:bricks:

I am the last person in the world to act as the spelling or grammar police. That being said, your posts have so many spelling and grammatical errors, coupled with emoticons and abbreviated words, that they cross the line and become almost illegible. U is not a word, by the same token, r isn't a word either, it is ok to use them for texting, but you shouldn't use them when posting on a board with grown ups. Your posts are so bad they distract from your point, which then begs the question, why bother posting at all if you don't care how you say something?

 

[livinginthe past]

I am the last person in the world to act as the spelling or grammar police. That being said, your posts have so many spelling and grammatical errors, coupled with emoticons and abbreviated words, that they cross the line and become almost illegible. U is not a word, by the same token, r isn't a word either, it is ok to use them for texting, but you shouldn't use them when posting on a board with grown ups. Your posts are so bad they distract from your point, which then begs the question, why bother posting at all if you don't care how you say something?

I'd be surprised if Solderking was a day over 10 - its posts equate to unintelligible white noise broadcast all across this forum.

Part of me hopes its a fake account set up by one of our regulars to help pass the lockout.

 

[Miguel]

I don't have the article saved. PATS Cassel was offered a #1 from Denver

I think that you are referring to a rumored 3-way trade. Supposedly the Bucs were going to trade their 1st round to the Broncos for Jay Cutler. The Broncos were then going to trade a 1st rounder to the Pats for Cassel.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Hoyer has no real value, though he's looked composed in limited action.

Cassel was a weird case because he got stuck behind two of the highest rated QBs on the best team in college football.

He stepped in and continually improved and played like a pro against top competition.

Sometimes opportunity meets need, but I'd be surprised if Hoyer could attract a 7th, barring some sort of notable heroics.

Sage Rosenfels, at 31, was traded for a 4th. Drew Henson had been retired from football for 4 years and was traded for a 3rd.

The 2nd may be too optimistic, but a 7th seems way beyond what the market has been paying for young QBs with some potential.

 

[Ring 6]

Yup.

Didn't the Lions offer us #33 for Cassel, straight up?? If true, that would clearly show that ~ considering the Salary Cap implications ~ offloading Vrabel's contract was considered more beneficial than retaining his services, to one Coach Belichick.

No. They drafted Stafford #1.
Why would including Vrabel help the Patriots? They could have just cut him. At best it was inconsequential to include him, at worst it was necessary to include him in order to get the #2.
My take is that he was going to be cut anyway, so BB included him in the deal so he could keep his contract in tact if he made the Chiefs, because as a FA he never would have gotten as much.

 

[RayClay]

Sage Rosenfels, at 31, was traded for a 4th. Drew Henson had been retired from football for 4 years and was traded for a 3rd.

The 2nd may be too optimistic, but a 7th seems way beyond what the market has been paying for young QBs with some potential.

Look at Rosenfels record compared to Hoyers. He has a 62.5% completion percentage, he's started games in four different seasons.

What about Rosenfels wouldn't be worth a fourth if you needed a backup with some experience?

What about Hoyers actual production would?

We tend to think the other 31 teams only want our players, but that's not the case.

Is there a statistic on trades involving UDFA QBs with 42 career passes?

 

[TheSolderKing]

I am the last person in the world to act as the spelling or grammar police. That being said, your posts have so many spelling and grammatical errors, coupled with emoticons and abbreviated words, that they cross the line and become almost illegible. U is not a word, by the same token, r isn't a word either, it is ok to use them for texting, but you shouldn't use them when posting on a board with grown ups. Your posts are so bad they distract from your point, which then begs the question, why bother posting at all if you don't care how you say something?

I'll keep typing shortcuts and abbreviations b/c it saves time.


I'll worry about my 3.5 GPA as a History/BA Major w/ 1 semester left