Qb 2 & qb 3???

[TheSolderKing]

YouTube - ‪No 8 QB Brian Hoyer vs the Dolphins 2010 season‬‏





Hoyer's time to play^

 

[goheels22002]

I can't see us getting a 2nd for Hoyer. He was an undrafted free agent who's only thrown 42 career passes. Then again, I don't think Kolb is worth a 1st.

I'd bet you that BB could get a 2nd Rounder from the Oakland Raiders for a photograph of Hoyer and a 3-month supply of Depends from that old nut-job Al Davis. Trader Bill is one hypnotizing dude when he's after your draft picks. I feel sleepy........

 

[goheels22002]

Why would a gm spend a 2nd or 3rd for a player when he has no competition?

Just to have something friggin' to do! Here I am reading about trading the Patriots' backup QB and wondering what he might bring and it can't even be done. No way, Jose. Obama can sneak into weird countries with the nuclear bomb, snatch and kill guys, dump 'em in the ocean and see his ratings skyrocket while the Patriots can't even trade their backup QB. The world has gone completely mad.

 

[TheSolderKing]

The gm would still be competing against the value the patriots have for him.

you downplay the VALUE of a QB.


Hoyer Pro experience. College kids none. Hoyer has Tom Brady as mentor college kids wish they could even meet TFB.


u base it on Hoyer being a UDFA/ un-drafted



curious? what round was BRADY drafted in again? (Rhetorical 1 for Mr. Moose)


I rest my case.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

you downplay the VALUE of a QB.


Hoyer Pro experience. College kids none. Hoyer has Tom Brady as mentor college kids wish they could even meet TFB.


u base it on Hoyer being a URFA/ undrafted



curious? what round was BRADY drafted in again? (Rhetorical 1 for Mr. Moose)


I rest my case.

You don't understand what you read. We can't understand what you write. It might be better for everyone's sake if what you gave a rest to was posting and in particular starting threads... doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

[goheels22002]

You don't understand what you read. We can't understand what you write. It might be better for everyone's sake if what you gave a rest to was posting and in particular starting threads... doesn't even begin to cover it.

I think you discovered the first fatality of the lockout: the previous poster is brain dead and his vital organs should be harvested and put in the beer cooler we won't need this fall.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Mallett has completed as many NFL passes as I have. Let's not get too carried away just yet. We don't even know if he'll make the team or self-destruct.

I also think he needs to learn how to compete, fight for snaps with Hoyer, and not be gift-wrapped the primary back-up job.

+1 to this. Mallet has proven NOTHING yet. Nada. He's 3rd string, he's not going to be given the backup job on a platter. Hoyer is the 2nd string. The Pats generally LIKE to carry 3 QBs. The situation of having only 2 QBs is actual unusual for them rather than being the norm. Don't expect any of the backups to be traded unless we draft another QB in 2012.

 

[TheSolderKing]

You don't understand what you read. We can't understand what you write. It might be better for everyone's sake if what you gave a rest to was posting and in particular starting threads... doesn't even begin to cover it.

how dont u understand??? why DRAFT a QB in 2nd round when HOYER a far superior option can be had w/ a second rounder? can u read man??? it is very simple. I covered that in last post.:bricks:

 

[TheSolderKing]

I think you discovered the first fatality of the lockout: the previous poster is brain dead and his vital organs should be harvested and put in the beer cooler we won't need this fall.

i'm brain dead for seeing Hoyer's worth??? I am brain dead for seeing the true worth of an experienced backup QB that could start right away on most NFL teams???? lol u have it wrong not me.


he has PRO experience. COLLEGE DRAFT KIDS HAVE 0


I h8 dumbing posts down for ppl

 

[supafly]

you downplay the VALUE of a QB.


Hoyer Pro experience. College kids none. Hoyer has Tom Brady as mentor college kids wish they could even meet TFB.


u base it on Hoyer being a UDFA/ un-drafted



curious? what round was BRADY drafted in again? (Rhetorical 1 for Mr. Moose)


I rest my case.

First of all, where is this 'experience' that you keep referring to? Where does this thought even come from that Hoyer has proven himself in the NFL?

Secondly, just for the sake of argument--let's say that he had. Playing in the NFL as opposed to the NCAA is just one aspect in a list of many that would go into choosing a particluar QB for your team. Yes, experience would be important (although Hoyer has none), but it's not the end all..be all either.

What were the results of his game reps? Were the play calls dumbed down for him (obviously)? What did he do right? What did he struggle with?

If you see a blue-chip prospect coming out of the NCAA who has more upside, better skillset, better size, a stronger arm, more intelligence, better comments from coaches/GM's etc----you are still going to take Brian Hoyer as your QB of the future??? Especially in your 2nd round (lower cost involved vs 1st round/'high' pick) scenario, would you rather not have a cost-efficient QB of the future, or at least a chance at a QB of the future? Or would you rather have Brian Hoyer, who belongs in a VERY long list of backup QB's in the NFL (that include some pretty recognizable names)?

I'd be completely shocked at the Pats getting anything better than a 5th rounder for Hoyer, and the only reason it's even as high as a 5th rounder is because he has backed up Brady for a couple years. There are a high number of options out there for bigger named guys who will be outright cut for ZERO compensation, guys that were drafted to be the 'future QB of the franchise' who will be cut, guys off of the practice squads that will be cut.

Who in their right mind would even consider giving up potential compensation like that (a 2nd round pick!!!) for someone who is just another name in a terribly long list of Chase Daniels', Brian Brohms etc? Are you related to Hoyer or something, because there's something that we just aren't getting?

 

[Deus Irae]

how dont u understand??? why DRAFT a QB in 2nd round when HOYER a far superior option can be had w/ a second rounder? can u read man??? it is very simple. I covered that in last post.:bricks:

You're making a claim, that Hoyer is a far superior option than a second rounder, while your basing your argument on the idea that a 3rd rounder can step in and replace Hoyer.

How are you missing the problem with that argument?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

We're going in circles at this point so just a few short points.

*Your info about Whitehurst is off. He was a 3 and a half year starter who was great as a sophomore, he threw for about 9600 yards in college--3500 more than Hoyer.

* Draft status doesn't matter in and of itself, it matters because it says something about what people thought a guy's NFL potential was at a point in time. If a player improves the draft info becomes obsolete but you can only tell that if the guy actually plays.

* Hoyer's preseason and mop-up duty are close to meaningless. NFL teams aren't going to trade for him based on 42 regular season and 101 preseason passes.

* Painter, Hoyer and Daniel are comparable because they are limited athletes who haven't played enough minutes to judge them fairly but who have earned NFL backup jobs on good teams.

*Teams trade for guys like Rob Johnson/Whitehurst/Henson/Kolb in large part because they have physical attribtues that a guy like Hoyer doesn't have.

Hoyer's a good enough player but nobody's going to think he's worth a three or a four until he sees actual action.

I agree, we're going in circles. I do want to correct a few things though, on both sides.

First, on Whitehurst's stats. Yeah, I looked at ESPN.com but that was missing his first two seasons, including 2003 which was a big year for Whitehurst. Given that context, the numbers are a lot closer. However, Whitehurst's 3,500 additional yards aren't really that impressive when you factor in that he started an extra year and a half.

I would also add that Hoyer had a very good junior season, throwing for 2,700 yards, 20 TDs vs. 11 INTs. He struggled the year after, which led a lot of people to overlook him. But Whitehurst had a great second year as a starter, throwing for 3,500 yards, 21 TDs vs. 13 INTs. But then he struggled as well, and for two seasons, throwing a combined 18 TDs vs. 27 INTs. It seems weird to downplay Hoyer's junior season because he struggled the next year without mentioning the same thing with Whitehurst, who experienced larger struggles.

As for Hoyer's limited tape, I agree it makes it very difficult to evaluate. I'm simply stating that other QBs have been taken with less passes thrown. This is fact. We can argue over the why, but the total number of meaningful passes is not an immutable law is all I'm trying to say.

Ultimately, we probably won't ever know what Hoyer's true value is to another team unless they make a crazy offer. He'll probably stay our back-up, and depending on the rules, perhaps be signed as an RFA for a few more years. But if he does get traded for more than a 7th, I won't be surprised.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Ultimately, we probably won't ever know what Hoyer's true value is to another team unless they make a crazy offer. He'll probably stay our back-up, and depending on the rules, perhaps be signed as an RFA for a few more years. But if he does get traded for more than a 7th, I won't be surprised.

I could see some form of conditional pick(s) happening more quickly than just a flat high round offer.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I could see some form of conditional pick(s) happening more quickly than just a flat high round offer.

That's a good alternative, though my guess is BB wouldn't accept until he's a bit more comfortable with Mallett or called a few veteran back-ups he was comfortable with.

 

[moosekill]

you downplay the VALUE of a QB.


Hoyer Pro experience. College kids none. Hoyer has Tom Brady as mentor college kids wish they could even meet TFB.


u base it on Hoyer being a UDFA/ un-drafted



curious? what round was BRADY drafted in again? (Rhetorical 1 for Mr. Moose)


I rest my case.

The gm would still be competing against the value the patriots have for him.

I was actually arguing your point with this post, I guess they cover that in your next semester of college. Perhaps reading and writing will be covered then.

 

[RayClay]

The gm would still be competing against the value the patriots have for him.

I was actually arguing your point with this post, I guess they cover that in your next semester of college. Perhaps reading and writing will be covered then.

when the argument gets to "Brady was drafted in the 6th, therefore" it's time to go home.

Trying to find the worst example of overpaying for a QB, or luckiest find in the draft ever and make that the norm just shows a weak argument.

If Brady twists his ankle and Hoyer comes in and rally's the team from three TDs down on Monday night football, he might draw a first, who knows?

Until then he is an unknown, simple as that. He's had preseason and mopup duty only.

 

[Triumph]

how dont u understand??? why DRAFT a QB in 2nd round when HOYER a far superior option can be had w/ a second rounder? can u read man??? it is very simple. I covered that in last post.:bricks:

I think Belichick would take that deal all day long.

Take an undrafted QB every draft, keep him 2 seasons where he plays mop up duty in 10 games and then trade for a 2nd round pick.

 

[TheSolderKing]

moose i questioned ur VALUE of a QB u said Hoyer aint worth a 2. I say BS u did not agree w/ me as u said u did.


will we really carry 3 QB's seems like a waste imo

 

[TheSolderKing]

I think Belichick would take that deal all day long.

Take an undrafted QB every draft, keep him 2 seasons where he plays mop up duty in 10 games and then trade for a 2nd round pick.

many ppl say Hoyer was Undrafted and therefore we would never get a 2:bricks:


ur value of Hoyer undermines the 2 I know he could receive. You don't agree w/ me.

 

[Triumph]

many ppl say Hoyer was Undrafted and therefore we would never get a 2:bricks:

Hoyer was undrafted and hes done absolutely nothing to suggest that some team will spend a 2nd round pick for him. Seymour was worth a 1st. Bledsoe brought a 1st and hed been starting in the NFL for 6 years.

ur value of Hoyer undermines the 2 I know he could receive. You don't agree w/ me.

Who is going to give NE a 2nd for Hoyer?