POST Game Thread: It was the Best of Times, It was the Worst of Times Edition

[woolster22]

I never said that Gray should never see the field. I said I think people overrate him. I said I think Blount is better. Still do.

If I end up being wrong, then I end up being wrong.

I'll agree that Gray has been vastly overrated around here. I will say I prefer Gray earlier to soften things up for Blount later. As I have said earlier, I feel Blount has regressed from his one cut, lower the shoulder style of this time last year. While he doesn't necessarily "dance," he seems hesitant to simply hit the hole far to often for a back of his size.

 

[Rob0729]

They were getting killed in that first half on offense.

Do you know how they scored all 14 of their points?

Blocked FG for a TD and Harmon's INT down to the 7 yard line.

The Pats offense in the first half was dysfunctional.

It was dysfunctional in all aspects. I felt the passing game was the real problem. Brady was off in the first half and pulled it together in the second. The passing offense stalled the offense in the first half and caused it to explode in the second.

 

[shmessy]

It was dysfunctional in all aspects. I felt the passing game was the real problem. Brady was off in the first half and pulled it together in the second. The passing offense stalled the offense in the first half and caused it to explode in the second.

What personnel change did they make in the 2nd half?

 

[Rob0729]

What personnel change did they make in the 2nd half?

You aren't going to credit Gray for the offensive explosion are you? I will give more credit to the fact that Gronk was used as a sixth lineman blocking in the first half and they let him run routes in the second half. Add the fact that the Pats came out angry in the second half rather than sleep walking to through the game in the second half and the o-line did a much better blocking.

You are really stretching the argument if you think it was because of Gray. In fact, many of the big plays in the second half, Gray wasn't on the field.

 

[manxman2601]

It does seem that BB and/or McDaniels don't feel they can run Gray without giving him an extra blocker. Not sure why that is because he looks to be an accomplished runner, albeit not one who can break a game open. If they can find a Hooman replacement that can block and catch equally well (poor mans Gronk or a quality move TE that can block), then I think this offense is better off with Gray as the lead back over Blount or Vereen.

 

[shmessy]

You aren't going to credit Gray for the offensive explosion are you? I will give more credit to the fact that Gronk was used as a sixth lineman blocking in the first half and they let him run routes in the second half. Add the fact that the Pats came out angry in the second half rather than sleep walking to through the game in the second half and the o-line did a much better blocking.

You are really stretching the argument if you think it was because of Gray. In fact, many of the big plays in the second half, Gray wasn't on the field.

I'm not crediting Gray for the offensive explosion in the second half.

I am pointing out the ridiculous EMBARGO of Gray in the first half was a major factor in the Patriots offense deserving a 13-0 halftime deficit. If it weren't for the ST TD and the INT to the 7, McDaniels and Crew were looking at a shutout at halftime. Keeping that kid off the field was ridiculous.

 

[woolster22]

You aren't going to credit Gray for the offensive explosion are you? I will give more credit to the fact that Gronk was used as a sixth lineman blocking in the first half and they let him run routes in the second half. Add the fact that the Pats came out angry in the second half rather than sleep walking to through the game in the second half and the o-line did a much better blocking.

You are really stretching the argument if you think it was because of Gray. In fact, many of the big plays in the second half, Gray wasn't on the field.

I think you have mentioned two back sets in the second half as well...again, I missed much of the third quarter.

 

[woolster22]

It does seem that BB and/or McDaniels don't feel they can run Gray without giving him an extra blocker. Not sure why that is because he looks to be an accomplished runner, albeit not one who can break a game open. If they can find a Hooman replacement that can block and catch equally well (poor mans Gronk or a quality move TE that can block), then I think this offense is better off with Gray as the lead back over Blount or Vereen.

Or maybe he takes advantage of that extra blocker. Vereen tries to make production through athleticism. Blount looks to create home run lanes. I'd argue a lead blocker would be (almost) wasted with Blount, and especially with Vereen.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think that gray has definitely earned more playing time next week, provided he has a good week of practice.

I love when the pats go third offensive tackle and keep gronkowski in the field and run the ball.

I know we try to run the ball about 40 percent of the time, but if we can run the ball on the bills and jets closer to 50 percent of the time against two teams with good d lines, we should be set up well for the playoffs.

 

[Joker]

Cameron Fleming was inactive again today. Perhaps(and this is just ME stretching a point), the Pats are saving Gray for the future/post season when they can once again utilize that crushing offensive formation that Gray ran for 200 yards behind. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Fleming was an integral part of that 6 O linemen formation they used that day to run amok.

 

[manxman2601]

He does take advantage of the extra blocker but they don't seem to want to put him in there without it which limits the offense because there's one less playmaker on the field.

 

[manxman2601]

Cameron Fleming was inactive again today. Perhaps(and this is just ME stretching a point), the Pats are saving Gray for the future/post season when they can once again utilize that crushing offensive formation that Gray ran for 200 yards behind. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Fleming was an integral part of that 6 O linemen formation they used that day to run amok.

You are spot on and they don't seem to be so happy using Cannon in that role for whatever reason.

 

[woolster22]

He does take advantage of the extra blocker but they don't seem to want to put him in there without it which limits the offense because there's one less playmaker on the field.

Problem is it is effective, and does not allow for pass orientated sets that the play caller adores.

 

[manxman2601]

Problem is it is effective, and does not allow for pass orientated sets that the play caller adores.

Well McDaniels is a spread offense guy. I like what Gray offers, I just think they're reluctant to use him too much because of the limitations the extra blocker puts on the offense. I'd also pay attention to what Joker said about Gray and Fleming. Maybe it is a case of waiting for Fleming to come back and then they'll unleash the Gray beast.

 

[shmessy]

Well McDaniels is a spread offense guy. I like what Gray offers, I just think they're reluctant to use him too much because of the limitations the extra blocker puts on the offense. I'd also pay attention to what Joker said about Gray and Fleming. Maybe it is a case of waiting for Fleming to come back and then they'll unleash the Gray beast.

11 for 62 without Fleming. I'll take that over the 2 and 1/2 game Embargo previous.

 

[woolster22]

Well McDaniels is a spread offense guy. I like what Gray offers, I just think they're reluctant to use him too much because of the limitations the extra blocker puts on the offense. I'd also pay attention to what Joker said about Gray and Fleming. Maybe it is a case of waiting for Fleming to come back and then they'll unleash the Gray beast.

And therein lies the rub. McDaniels needs to forget what he prefers abd take advantage of (or at least attempt to) relatively obvious match up advantages. Establishing the run, even with a heavy set and a back specific to said set, opens up the play book. You get the line going and you can then reasonably expect Vereen to be effective in a limited rushing role. Instead, our offensive "genius," does the opposite, almost as if to justify the air game.

His track record of this is absolutely maddening. I hope he jumps ship to another HC job, where he will implode attempting the same crap with a lesser QB and defense. I'm incredibly tired of seeing the run game abandoned for no good reason.

 

[manxman2601]

And therein lies the rub. McDaniels needs to forget what he prefers abd take advantage of (or at least attempt to) relatively obvious match up advantages. Establishing the run, even with a heavy set and a back specific to said set, opens up the play book. You get the line going and you can then reasonably expect Vereen to be effective in a limited rushing role. Instead, our offensive "genius," does the opposite, almost as if to justify the air game.

His track record of this is absolutely maddening. I hope he jumps ship to another HC job, where he will implode attempting the same crap with a lesser QB and defense. I'm incredibly tired of seeing the run game abandoned for no good reason.

He was the play caller in the second half too, you can't criticise him when things don't go well and then don't credit him when it does.

 

[manxman2601]

11 for 62 without Fleming. I'll take that over the 2 and 1/2 game Embargo previous.

I'm not saying Gray is dependent on Fleming, I'm agreeing with joker that maybe BB/McDaniels think that's the optimum use of Gray. On those 11 carries, how many times did they use an extra blocker? I think Gray should be allowed to go solo, I'm saying that it's possible that BB/McDaniels don't.

 

[ausbacker]

Well McDaniels is a spread offense guy. I like what Gray offers, I just think they're reluctant to use him too much because of the limitations the extra blocker puts on the offense. I'd also pay attention to what Joker said about Gray and Fleming. Maybe it is a case of waiting for Fleming to come back and then they'll unleash the Gray beast.

I think the Patriots should do what works against the opposition. I have no issue with a Fleming-Gray set because Gronk, LaFell and Edelman are more than good enough to create separation on the play-action.

 

[woolster22]

He was the play caller in the second half too, you can't criticise him when things don't go well and then don't credit him when it does.

And as I've stated I missed the third for the most part. That said it sounds like personnel groupings changed a bit(based off snippets from this thread), and I think there was a turnover or two. I don't think I discredited anyone for the second v half, I haven't seen much of the important part (before the score was out of hand).