Poll: Is Chris Long an upgrade from Chandler Jones?

[patfanken]

Holy ****!

Nice find. These stats are nice as far as these kind of stats go, and for Pats fans they are at least encouraging if you are thinking about the Trade.

All that being said, Chandler Jones, at this stage of his career, probably the better pure pass rusher. But I think we all knew that already. But maybe stats like this will allow us to think that Long has been a more effective pass rusher than we thought.

But even without those stats, I think most Pats fans have been pleased with the Long signing, and he's certainly played up to his cap number. His best skill, imo, has been his "dependability". He's been there every game and practice, and has been a productive contributor to a defense which is definitely better as a whole than the individual parts.

 

[TheBeers]

Pats list Flowers on the depth chart at RDE. Not that means a whole lot. I mean Slater is listed as a WR so... it seems Flowers' role is as a pass rush specialist regardless of where he lines up.

 

[70Dart]

Of course he's not an upgrade

Long may not be an upgrade, but I don't think he is a downgrade either. As I said, he may not have the sack numbers, but he certainly is disruptive and his motor is non stop. Plus you'll see him drop back in shallow coverage. The guy is versatile.

 

[nabwong]

Pats list Flowers on the depth chart at RDE. Not that means a whole lot. I mean Slater is listed as a WR so... it seems Flowers' role is as a pass rush specialist regardless of where he lines up.

That's just deceptive. Get ready for a fine.

 

[patfanken]

I do notice that Reiss lists him with the DEs in his snapcounts.

That';s because he is. DI is misrepresenting the Long quote. Long was impressed because Flowers has been rushing from both the inside and outside.

There is no doubt that "in certain situations" Flowers as been rushing from the inside. But so too did Chandler Jones last season, and DI isn't calling him a DE. As far as the Pats coaching staff is concerned Flowers is a DE. But then again, what do they know. If DI tells us he's a DT, then he must be a DT. Don't forget ere all living in DI's world, and we are just guests.

 

[JayNM]

Holy ****!

Long comes off the field much more often than Jones ever did. When he is in, he is good, but if we would rely on Long as much as we did with Jones, his productivity would plummet, no doubt. That being said, i'd rather have both Long and Flowers more than one Jones.

Also, if we considered that we got Thuney too (who I might be more excited than most), Jones trade seems to be leaning our way, even in the short term

 

[Deus Irae]

A Defensive Lineman is what they called him. Who cares if he lines up on the edge or on the inside. He has played both roles and he has done it well. The Patriots website has him listed as a DE, to me, he is making plays, I don't care if they drop him back a LB..lol

My initial post was in response to someone who was using Flowers, rather than Long, as the replacement/upgrade over Jones. My point was simply that Flowers is the replacement/upgrade for Easley. The actual DL labels are not really applicable for all the DL, this year, and the snap count percentages reflect that.

 

[Deus Irae]

That';s because he is. DI is misrepresenting the Long quote. Long was impressed because Flowers has been rushing from both the inside and outside.

There is no doubt that "in certain situations" Flowers as been rushing from the inside. But so too did Chandler Jones last season, and DI isn't calling him a DE. As far as the Pats coaching staff is concerned Flowers is a DE. But then again, what do they know. If DI tells us he's a DT, then he must be a DT. Don't forget ere all living in DI's world, and we are just guests.

I'm not doing what you claim, and quit being an ass.

 

[70Dart]

Long comes off the field much more often than Jones ever did. When he is in, he is good, but if we would rely on Long as much as we did with Jones, his productivity would plummet, no doubt. That being said, i'd rather have both Long and Flowers more than one Jones.

Also, if we considered that we got Thuney too (who I might be more excited than most), Jones trade seems to be leaning our way, even in the short term

They can rotate the players out. Nink, Sheard, Flowers and Long all play spot duty. I like this to be honest. No one player gets worn out. I agree.

 

[70Dart]

My initial post was in response to someone who was using Flowers, rather than Long, as the replacement/upgrade over Jones. My point was simply that Flowers is the replacement/upgrade for Easley. The actual OL labels are not really applicable for all the DL, this year, and the snap count percentages reflect that.

I agree. In years past we had distinct roles. the 3-4 we had Seymour and Warren at DE, But if switched to a 4-3 one went inside to a DT. That is what I like best about defense as a whole. They are all role players. Even now the the DL, mostly Nink and Long drop back and can play the coverage as well. I really like this defense and what they can do.

 

[Deus Irae]

They can rotate the players out. Nink, Sheard, Flowers and Long all play spot duty. I like this to be honest. No one player gets worn out. I agree.

Just to follow this up:

Long: 66%
Ninkovich: 44%
Flowers: 54$
Sheard: 56%
Branch: 59%
Brown: 59%
Valentine: 24%


New England Patriots 2016 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[farn]

Long may not "be an upgrade", but when you consider (1) lack off "stats" (yes, stats aren't everything) for Chandler Jones in NOV-DEC (2) money (3) rotation/many players being used (4) the return of Thuney & MM- you can make a very solid argument that the Jones to Arizona trade has been a success.

"Is Long an upgrade" isn't a fair way to assess the decision. But, Mankins left & the trophy arrived. Chandler Jones & Collins left & a 12-2 record PLUS an excellent points against D stares us in the face.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Long comes off the field much more often than Jones ever did. When he is in, he is good, but if we would rely on Long as much as we did with Jones, his productivity would plummet, no doubt. That being said, i'd rather have both Long and Flowers more than one Jones.

Also, if we considered that we got Thuney too (who I might be more excited than most), Jones trade seems to be leaning our way, even in the short term

Last year Jones played 78% of the snaps. This year, Long plays 66% of the snaps. Based on 60 defensive snaps, thats only about 7 snaps a game.

Considering after Halloween, as a NEP Jones went from 1.5 sacks every 2 games to 1 sack every 3 games.

Playing him less and keeping him fresh might have been the better approach to using him.

 

[chasa]

its not a 1 to 1 trade.

it would silly to compare it that way.

Chandler jones as a player fades as the season progresses. he did it his entire career here, and hes doing it in his first season in Az.

our team is better without him.

 

[TheBeers]

Just to follow this up:

Long: 66%
Ninkovich: 44%
Flowers: 54$
Sheard: 56%
Branch: 59%
Brown: 59%
Valentine: 24%


New England Patriots 2016 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

This is great to see. Remember in recent years the snap counts Nink/Jones/Wilfork were getting were way to high. This allows them to keep everyone fresh over the course of the season and into the playoffs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree. In years past we had distinct roles. the 3-4 we had Seymour and Warren at DE, But if switched to a 4-3 one went inside to a DT. That is what I like best about defense as a whole. They are all role players. Even now the the DL, mostly Nink and Long drop back and can play the coverage as well. I really like this defense and what they can do.

You also had Jarvis Green and Mike Wright as sub-rushers from the inside and they would team with Warren/Sey while Willie, Vrabel, Colvin would line up on the outside.

 

[70Dart]

You also had Jarvis Green and Mike Wright as sub-rushers from the inside and they would team with Warren/Sey while Willie, Vrabel, Colvin would line up on the outside.

Absolutely, there were a lot of role players that could sub in and out. Much like now. For a while there we suffered at linebacker, the thin years between Bru, McGinest, Vrabes and Mayo. We had some bad LB's in between. Now though, we look great.

 

[Patjew]

Long looks much more likely to get in trouble with synthetic weed. Oh the irony...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Long looks much more likely to get in trouble with synthetic weed. Oh the irony...

That and as an extra on "Sons of Anarchy".

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Not an upgrade, but when you consider the cost for production, it worked out fine.