PFT: High-level executive: "IR issue way bigger than taping"

[OhExaulted1]

Well now we are getting into whether the IR rule is good or not. That's a whole other discussion.

sdfan

I'm a big picture guy. You're a whatever the media tells you to focus on guy. The IR rules are the bottom line of this whole discussion, are they not?

There is also the fact that if a player on IR practiced then he had to agree to do so. Shouldn't that make him just as culpable as his employer? Or does he get a free pass because he snitched (albeit years after the fact).

Am I missing something here? Did someone hold a gun to Tucker's head? If they threatened his job couldn't he sue?

 

[pao]

Dude, you are all over the place! It is tough to talk to you with your shotgun approach.

Nice of you to NOT answer the questions asked of you. Typical of a spin artist.

Dude, you didn't ask ME the questions. I was just pointing out that your questions weren't analoguos. As for being a spin artist? Well we are all spin artists to a certain degree if you get right down to it. I mean, really, another word for spin is opinion.

First of all, you have absolutely NO PROOF that BB broke the IR rule continuously. None at all. You have two incidents, neither of which have been confirmed. That makes it heresay. Hardly damning proof.

Come on, lets not get into this. They broke the rule, they don't even argue it. They were punished, they accepted it, it's done.

Also, YOU are the hypocrite, not Belichick.

I never said BB was a hypocrite. You said the other poster was a hypocrite. I just pointed out that your questions were not analoguous to the discussiona and, if answered as written, wouldn't prove the poster hypocritical. AND I said that even if he was a hypocrite his point could still be correct.

And I argue the poster because it shows you have no credibility on the subject. You make half-assed assumptions and act as if they are true.

Arguing the poster does not change his mind or make your "spin" any more palatable.

You clearly don't understand the difference between breaking a rule and cheating. There IS a difference.

Well, within the scope of this arguement you are wrong. By definition breaking the rules is cheating. There are varying degrees of punishment for breaking the rules but it is cheating to break the rules. It's as simple as that.

I'll give YOU the same examples I've given every other person on this subject. Its pretty funny to see their reactions when I do it also.

• If a player wears the wrong color socks, its breaking a rule. But its not cheating because it provides no competitive advantage.
• All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

Please show me in any definition of cheating that it requires a "competitive advantage" qualification to be cheating. I'll save you some time, there isn't one. The only thing that changes with the rule being broken. or the cheating, is the punishment.

As someone else pointed out, and you ignored, teams have 61 players in practice when they have a full roster. ONE extra player or even 2 extra players isn't going to make a damn bit of difference in terms of resting the other 61.
Second, Having a player go through moves as part of rehab isn't necessarily practicing with the team. And that is what Tucker and Walsh didn't mention. When I was rehabbing my knee, they physical therapist actually had me go to the soccer field and practice in between sessions. I couldn't play because it would have been to much, but I did practice with my team. What "competitive advantage" does it give me or them?

You are rationalising again. It's against the rules, don't do it. Or if your team does, don't get upset when there are consequences.

I am going to ask you one final question. Do you get into an uproar when players HOLD or commit pass interference? Because those are both against the rules. And they are cheating.

You are right they ARE both cheating and my answer doesn't really matter but I'll give it to you in a bit. It doesn't matter because even if I'm a hypocrite, if a team gets caught cheating and gets disciplined for it, they deserve it. To answer your question I only get in an uproar when players commit holding or pass interference against my team if it doesn't get called or, if it is against my team and gets called, I am pissed at the player...not the ref that called it nor do I begrudge the penalty assessed.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Yes, it's obvious you can't think for yourself. You need the media to tell you how to think.

Whats it like to be a sheep in the herd?

LOL. You've made quite a leap in your assumptions my friend. Whatever makes you feel better, eh?

sdfan

 

[pao]

I think the part in bold is really the key, and the fact that the Patriots have been singled out for all this time has made even many of the more rational Patriots posters very touchy when it comes to accusations against the team or its players. The team lost a first round draft pick, 3/4 of a million dollars and piece of mind for more than 6 months now over the placement of a video camera. It was a moronic penalty by the Ommissioner, and there are many Patriots fans who feel guilty for having initially sided with that clown and going after fellow fans who defended the team at the time. This makes them even more defensive than the others.

The bottom line is that it's become a sore that isn't healing because it keeps getting re-opened on a seemingly weekly basis.

As for the star thing, I find the special treatment given to league stars to be one of the most repugnant things about professional sports. If these 'great' players are so great, why should they need help from the officials?

Outstanding post. Thank you.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Exactly. We feel the same way...it SHOULD be over already. But ESPN keeps beating the dead horse, piling on, whatever cliche you like. So, while I don't speak for every Pats fan, I think I have an idea about most of them, before we even know the facts, we feel like "Ok, ESPN is revving up the BS machine again." And alot of fans are more than willing to jump in and support whatever ESPN says.

We all heard Commisioner Goodell mention there was an IR rule broken during his press conference. Why wasn't ESPN beating this drum that day? Because they knew once the Spygate furor simmered down they could pull the IR thing out of their back pocket and whip people into a frenzy again.

He also said the penalty for practicing a guy on IR is a fine. But ESPN fails to report that. They (and their guests like Joey "I will only jump someone with 4 friends around" Porter) plant the idea of asteriks and suspensions and how every locker room hates BB.

Great post. Thank you. I definitely understand how you feel.

sdfan

 

[blackglass3]

Great post. Thank you. I definitely understand how you feel.

sdfan

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I will take it as you aren't. You and DFWChargersFan are two of the good ones.

 

[pao]

Tell me pao, do you root for Merroidman? Shouldn't all of his stats have a * next to them to indicate he was a cheater? How many game changing plays were made while he was on the juice?

You see, you assume that I am one that believes there should be an asterisk by the Patriots accomplishments, I'm not. Or that I believe that Merriman should not have been punished for what he did, I don't. Or that because one of the players on my favorite team broke a rule somehow takes away my right to have an opinion about another team's problems.

Great role model.

Actually he is a "great role model". Some bad, some good. It's up to me to determine which parts of his model is good and which is bad.

Maybe you should go back to your SD board and finger-wag at your fellow Sparkler fans. Obviously they won games because Merroid cheated.

LOL. Er, OK, I'll just go back to my Charger board with my tail between my legs because you told me to. Some people just don't get it. Just because someone on my favorite team breaks a rule doesn't mean I am defending him or that it precludes me from commenting on other team's transgressions. It would be one thing if I was saying Merriman was wronged or didn't deserve punishment but that is just not the case.

sdfan

 

[pao]

How about the end-of-regular-season game that was fixed btwn. Non-Competition Committee comrades Jeff the Fisher king and Dad of the Year Dungheap, so that Tenn. made the POs?

How about zebras in NaPolian's back pocket?

How about artificial crowd noise?

Do I really need to go on?

First, I apologise. By "Dolts" I though you meant "Bolts". Second, none of those allegations have been proven as the IR violation was.

sdfan

 

[pao]

I'm a big picture guy. You're a whatever the media tells you to focus on guy. The IR rules are the bottom line of this whole discussion, are they not?

The breaking of the IR rules as they now exist are the bottom line of this whole discussion not the rule itself.

There is also the fact that if a player on IR practiced then he had to agree to do so. Shouldn't that make him just as culpable as his employer?

If you want to go that far I guess he should be. But the fact is the organisation has all the power, what's the player going to say? No, I will not practice because it would be breaking the rules? I don't know that's pretty tough for a guy trying to make it if he's on the bubble.

Or does he get a free pass because he snitched (albeit years after the fact).

Well the guy that "snitched" wasn't the guy on IR and praciticing, which is what we ar talking about.

Am I missing something here? Did someone hold a gun to Tucker's head? If they threatened his job couldn't he sue?

Tucker wasn't on IR. He just reported that the Patriots allowed an IR player to practice.

sdfan

 

[pao]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I will take it as you aren't. You and DFWChargersFan are two of the good ones.

I definitely was not being sarcastic. We all have an opinion based on what we read and what we believe. The only way to change someone's opinon, imo, is reasoned explanation of your side of things. You did a good job with your post and, in fact, changed somewhat my opinion of Patriots fans and what they are going through right now. Thanks.

sdfan

 

[OhExaulted1]

Tucker wasn't on IR. He just reported that the Patriots allowed an IR player to practice.

sdfan

What player was it then?

 

[OhExaulted1]

LOL. Er, OK, I'll just go back to my Charger board with my tail between my legs because you told me to. Some people just don't get it. Just because someone on my favorite team breaks a rule doesn't mean I am defending him or that it precludes me from commenting on other team's transgressions. It would be one thing if I was saying Merriman was wronged or didn't deserve punishment but that is just not the case.

sdfan

What other teams transgressions besides the Patriots have you been commenting on? Feel free to post links.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but imo you're wrong - they aren't trying to get a rise out of us...that isn't the point of their witch hunt, they're trying to get a rise out of the other fans by reporting semi-truths and omitting information as they sensationalize nothing after nothing. Personally, I feel like it's my duty to point out the fact that the only taints involved are the ones reporting the stories. But I guarantee you that if we, at patsfans and other Pats forums stop talking about it, ESPN and other fans will most certainly not stop their smear campaign. We may not help (I like to think we do) but we are certainly not the ones fueling the fire by any stretch.

Not true at all. If Patriot fans took the Belichick/Patriot approach to this whole thing, it would end a whole lot faster.

The media would throw the bait out, fans of other teams will take it and say "CHEATERS" (maybe high five each other), and that would be it. If we didn't feed into their crap, they would have nobody to argue back and forth with, and people would lose interest pretty quickly.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no matter what we say or do, it is not going to change the fact that Belichick's reputation is tarnished in the minds of most (non) football fans outside of the NE area. The only thing you do by continuing to argue it, is help keep the story a hot topic.

 

[BSR]

The one comment that I would like to add to this mess of a thread: There are many here that have made the mistake of confusing Laws/Rules with Morals/Ethics. Violating the IR Rule is certainly a violation but that doesn't mean that it is a moral or ethical violation. Having IR'd players practice is certainly a rules violation. If Belichick is making players practice when they are clearly injured and thus jeapordizing their careers then it is also an ethical issue. However, if he is letting these young players get valuable practice time in after they have fully recovered then it is a benefit to them and I hardly see it as an ethical issue. Lets take a for instance. Dieon Branch was IR'd early in his first year. There was absolutely no chance of him being cut given his high draft status. Would it me immoral to have him take some reps after his full recovery to help him transition for the following year? Of course not.

As for the media coverage, there is no coincedence that ESPN is the only major new source picking this up. It is a speeding ticket at the worst.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Not true at all. If Patriot fans took the Belichick/Patriot approach to this whole thing, it would end a whole lot faster.

The media would throw the bait out, fans of other teams will take it and say "CHEATERS" (maybe high five each other), and that would be it. If we didn't feed into their crap, they would have nobody to argue back and forth with, and people would lose interest pretty quickly.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no matter what we say or do, it is not going to change the fact that Belichick's reputation is tarnished in the minds of most (non) football fans outside of the NE area. The only thing you do by continuing to argue it, is help keep the story a hot topic.

I disagree. Until the NE goes 5-11 and becomes just another also ran the accusations will never go away. As long as we are competing for titles year in and year out, then I accept it.

As long as trolls from other fan bases come here to try to browbeat and antogonize us we have the right to rebuff them at every turn.

This is our house.

Fans from the rest of the league will never let it rest as long as were beating them. It actually makes it more enjoyable to watch when we beat the rest of the sore losers every week. They can't stand it and thats the best medicine.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I disagree. Until the NE goes 5-11 and becomes just another also ran the accusations will never go away. As long as we are competing for titles year in and year out, then I accept it.

As long as trolls from other fan bases come here to try to browbeat and antogonize us we have the right to rebuff them at every turn.

This is our house.

Fans from the rest of the league will never let it rest as long as were beating them. It actually makes it more enjoyable to watch when we beat the rest of the sore losers every week. They can't stand it and thats the best medicine.

As long as you all continue to react to every bit of nonsense that the media puts out there, you do nothing but allow them to take enjoyment out of what is likely the greatest period of NE Patriot football that we will ever be witness to.

I for one could not care less about what the haters are saying. The second I let that garbage get to me… THEY win. I’m content letting the teams play do the talking on the field.

We have a great team, lead by an all time great coach, with an all time great QB, throwing to an all time great WR!! Now is the time to enjoy it... not let these ass clowns get us all riled up.

Why care what they are saying?? BB doesn't, neither does the rest of the team. We don’t need the approval of opposing fans, agenda driven media *******s, and attention whores!! We should be happy that we are STILL lined up for multiple SB runs, after a decade of dominance!! This is an amazing time to be a fan, don't let the haters take even a SECOND of enjoyment from you!!

 

[pao]

What player was it then?

Who cares? They broke the rule, were punished for it, it's over. You said it was Tucker, it wasn't.

sdfan

 

[pao]

What other teams transgressions besides the Patriots have you been commenting on? Feel free to post links.

Why? Does that change whether my posts are correct or not? No. It doesn't matter what else I have been commenting on, I was participating in this thread. Nothing else matters.


sdfan

 

[otis p. driftwood]

Why? Does that change whether my posts are correct or not? No. It doesn't matter what else I have been commenting on, I was participating in this thread. Nothing else matters.


sdfan

If part of your riff is that you comment on and condemn cheating and rule breaking from any and sundry, then yes, we have the right to demand you show proof of your so called even handedness.

 

[Deus Irae]

If part of your riff is that you comment on and condemn cheating and rule breaking from any and sundry, then yes, we have the right to demand you show proof of your so called even handedness.

Nonsense. He has no need to produce any such evidence.