PFT: High-level executive: "IR issue way bigger than taping"

[pao]

Bingo, bango, bongo.
The IR rules, as currently constituted, are ******ed and unenforceable, just like the hysterical anti-marijuana laws.

They may be ******ed but they are not unenforceable, certainly not as unenforceable as the marijuana laws.

Why in the world can't the league adopt Disabled List rules like MLB and, to a lesser extent, the NHL and NBA? A 3-tiered system of 3 weeks, 8 weeks and season-ending is much more reasonable than what we have now. Now, a player can suffer a knee injury on Opening Day and, although a 10-week rehab can have him ready after Thanksgiving, be forced to sit the entire season. This helps neither the team nor the NFL, because its best players are not all on the field, and on television. A product that is less attractive than what it should be may begin to attract fewer viewers, and fewer sponsors.

Yes, GREAT points! I agree with you on this.

If I were HC, I would use IR'ed players who are physically able to practice exactly the way that the NEP are accused of using them. And if someone's moral sensitivity is offended by their stashing of low-round/UDFA rookies on IR? Then expand the effin Practice Squad to an even dozen.

But the problem, besides it being against the rules, is that it wouldn't just be "low-round/UDFA". Teams would abuse it and players who, if not placed on IR, would be released and could catch on with another team. I like your practice squad idea, but remember, those on it are virtually free agents, that's how the Chargers lost Welker. Your ideas above make more sense, imo.

When the league does something - anything - about Real cheating, as practiced by NaPolian, by the Dolts and Titans, and by the career-threatening teachings of Alex Gibbs, then wake me up.

Please identify "real cheating" by the above mentioned, that they have been caught doing, that has gone unpunished. Specifically the "Dolts". Please.

sdfan

 

[pao]

I'm going to ask you some questions. Answer honestly.

1) Do you speed?
2) Do you change lanes without using your blinker?
3) Do you wear your seatbelt?
4) Do you hit the gas when you see the light turn yellow?

If you answered yes to any of those, then you are a hypocrite for complaining about Belichick and the IR rule.

No, you are wrong. The only way your examples would be analoguos is if he broke one of those rules continuously, as BB did with the IR rule. Every single day, continuously, BB made the decision to break that rule. So, to make your questions analoguos they should be more like this...

1) Do you break the speed limit continuously from the time you leave home until the time you return?
2) Do you change lanes continuously without using your blinker?
3) Do you continuously not wear your seatbelt?
4) Do you continuously hit the gas when you see the light turn yellow?

Also, even if he IS a hypocrite it doesn't mean he is wrong. Right? I mean if I say that "You should practice safe sex", but don't do it myself, I may be a hypocrite but it doesn't make the message any less true. Let's argue the subject rather than the poster.

sdfan

 

[pao]

Yeah, sure. I'll bet they had whips and chains forcing them into submission.

Oh, so in your opinion it's ok to cheat if those affected go along with it?

sdfan

 

[pao]

Have you checked the WNBA schedule yet? You might find what you are
looking for there. So far as I can tell neither the NFL, NHL, NBA, or MLB has
the choir boys you want to root for so you might as well switch genders and
go watch the girls.

Oooh, got me there. You're so tough, I think I may never post here again. Good thing I'll have that helmet once Zeke sends it to me. I might get hit in the head by big 'ole tough words like yours. It's really cute, though, the way you use those cute little smileys. That takes some of the edge off your meany words.

sdfan

 

[pao]

I can't stand it. The biggest role model in your life should be YOURSELF!

Lead, don't follow.

LoL. Easy there cowboy. Listen, if you don't believe that your children are looking at how every person they see acts and reacts then you'd better start. If you don't believe that we, as people, learn how to act and react by watching or reading about or learning about other people you are sadly mistaken. My biggest role model in my life is most certainly NOT myself.

sdfan

 

[blackglass3]

Pao, may I ask how you feel about this? http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/24/bucs-asking-for-trouble/

I see this as just as big of a deal as the IR thing. If the Bucs have their players practicing and hitting weeks before everyone else does, doesn't that mean they are unfairly getting in more practice than 31 other teams? Yet, ESPN has no story on it. The article doesn't have 40 comments from people wanting to * the Bucs Super Bowl.

Will ESPN have Warren Sapp and David Boston on NFL Live talking about how this type of thing only happened on the Bucs and not other teams?

The point you are missing is that everything ESPN has reported since September about the Pats has had a negative slant to it. Hell, even during the NCAA Basketball season, the crawl at the bottom said: Memphis 18-0 win streak (last 18 game win streak New England Patriots - Lost Super Bowl).

It's mudslinging they are participating in, and no one wants to call them on it because they are the great and powerful ESPN.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Oh, so in your opinion it's ok to cheat if those affected go along with it?

sdfan

My point is there should NO INJURY LISTS WHATSOEVER. Why is there an injury list in the first place? Only to cater to the billion dollar industry of GAMBLING.

Belichicks job is as a coach. Part of that job is protecting his players. By specifying a players injury you're giving the opponent information on where he could hit him and possibly take him out of the game or end his career.

The NFL wants specific information on players injuries to keep people in Vegas happy. Protecting players from injury is the least of their concern. They could care less about the health and well being of their employee's. That especially evident with how they treat retired veterns.

If protecting you're players from a mob-run gambling enterprise requires "cheating", then yes. I'm all for it.

You'll be crying about cheating come October 12th when you get stomped in your own house. I'm going to teach my son why it's not good to be a sore loser by pointing out your posts.

Enjoy the cry-baby soup loser. Again.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, you are wrong. The only way your examples would be analoguos is if he broke one of those rules continuously, as BB did with the IR rule. Every single day, continuously, BB made the decision to break that rule. So, to make your questions analoguos they should be more like this...

1) Do you break the speed limit continuously from the time you leave home until the time you return?
2) Do you change lanes continuously without using your blinker?
3) Do you continuously not wear your seatbelt?
4) Do you continuously hit the gas when you see the light turn yellow?

Also, even if he IS a hypocrite it doesn't mean he is wrong. Right? I mean if I say that "You should practice safe sex", but don't do it myself, I may be a hypocrite but it doesn't make the message any less true. Let's argue the subject rather than the poster.

sdfan

Nice of you to NOT answer the questions asked of you. Typical of a spin artist.

First of all, you have absolutely NO PROOF that BB broke the IR rule continuously. None at all. You have two incidents, neither of which have been confirmed. That makes it heresay. Hardly damning proof.

Also, YOU are the hypocrite, not Belichick. And I argue the poster because it shows you have no credibility on the subject. You make half-assed assumptions and act as if they are true.

You clearly don't understand the difference between breaking a rule and cheating. There IS a difference.

I'll give YOU the same examples I've given every other person on this subject. Its pretty funny to see their reactions when I do it also.

• If a player wears the wrong color socks, its breaking a rule. But its not cheating because it provides no competitive advantage.
• All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

As someone else pointed out, and you ignored, teams have 61 players in practice when they have a full roster. ONE extra player or even 2 extra players isn't going to make a damn bit of difference in terms of resting the other 61.

Second, Having a player go through moves as part of rehab isn't necessarily practicing with the team. And that is what Tucker and Walsh didn't mention. When I was rehabbing my knee, they physical therapist actually had me go to the soccer field and practice in between sessions. I couldn't play because it would have been to much, but I did practice with my team. What "competitive advantage" does it give me or them?

I am going to ask you one final question. Do you get into an uproar when players HOLD or commit pass interference? Because those are both against the rules. And they are cheating.

 

[OhExaulted1]

My biggest role model in my life is most certainly NOT myself.

sdfan

Yes, it's obvious you can't think for yourself. You need the media to tell you how to think.

Whats it like to be a sheep in the herd?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ah, the crux of the matter, imo. Here is where we get into the "this is breaking the rules too, how can you accept this type of breaking the rules, but not breaking the IR rule, if you are so righteous" argument. And there is the addendum that star players are allowed even MORE lattitude (I always hated that pitchers like Greg Maddox got a wider strike zone than the rules called for...and he is now a Padre!). I would be really interested in hearing your thoughts on this. I guess my opinion would be that if the officials are allowing it then the players can't be blamed for taking advantage of it. But boy let me tell you, if they are going to crack down on it they better crack down on EVERYONE that is doing it (I'm sure we all agree on that!).

sdfan

I think the part in bold is really the key, and the fact that the Patriots have been singled out for all this time has made even many of the more rational Patriots posters very touchy when it comes to accusations against the team or its players. The team lost a first round draft pick, 3/4 of a million dollars and piece of mind for more than 6 months now over the placement of a video camera. It was a moronic penalty by the Ommissioner, and there are many Patriots fans who feel guilty for having initially sided with that clown and going after fellow fans who defended the team at the time. This makes them even more defensive than the others.

The bottom line is that it's become a sore that isn't healing because it keeps getting re-opened on a seemingly weekly basis.

As for the star thing, I find the special treatment given to league stars to be one of the most repugnant things about professional sports. If these 'great' players are so great, why should they need help from the officials?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Tell me pao, do you root for Merroidman? Shouldn't all of his stats have a * next to them to indicate he was a cheater? How many game changing plays were made while he was on the juice?

Great role model. Maybe you should go back to your SD board and finger-wag at your fellow Sparkler fans. Obviously they won games because Merroid cheated.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

LoL. Easy there cowboy. Listen, if you don't believe that your children are looking at how every person they see acts and reacts then you'd better start. If you don't believe that we, as people, learn how to act and react by watching or reading about or learning about other people you are sadly mistaken. My biggest role model in my life is most certainly NOT myself.

sdfan

well, you must think that athletes that cheat(steroids) are the lowest form of life because kids will definitely be presented with that decision. as for videotaping defensive signs, not only is it not detrimental to their health or against the law, but not too many kids are going to have to make that decision. for that reason, you should join us in calling for the permanent ban of luis castillo, shawn merriman and stephen cooper (there's probably more because this problem is endemic on the chargers, but the nfl may be covering it up ). do it for the children.

 

[pao]

Pao, may I ask how you feel about this? http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/24/bucs-asking-for-trouble/

I think it is BS. Either enforce the rule or get rid of it.

I see this as just as big of a deal as the IR thing. If the Bucs have their players practicing and hitting weeks before everyone else does, doesn't that mean they are unfairly getting in more practice than 31 other teams? Yet, ESPN has no story on it. The article doesn't have 40 comments from people wanting to * the Bucs Super Bowl.

Great points. The NFL needs to punish them for breaking the rule.

Will ESPN have Warren Sapp and David Boston on NFL Live talking about how this type of thing only happened on the Bucs and not other teams?
The point you are missing is that everything ESPN has reported since September about the Pats has had a negative slant to it.

Ok, I see this point. I get that and understand it. I try not to speak in absolute terms so I have a bit of a problem with "everything ESPN has reported...about the Pats...had a negative slant" and I haven't been watching ESPN, I mostly watch NFLN, so I can't comment on what I think of ESPN's behavior. I can believe that there has been a negative slant most of the time. Some of it IS deserved, imo, but, dang, it should be over already. I was speaking more to the IR rule and its enforcement more than the perception and reaction by ESPN and others. Thanks for the comments, they were enlightening.

sdfan

 

[blackglass3]

I think it is BS. Either enforce the rule or get rid of it.

Great points. The NFL needs to punish them for breaking the rule.
Ok, I see this point. I get that and understand it. I try not to speak in absolute terms so I have a bit of a problem with "everything ESPN has reported...about the Pats...had a negative slant" and I haven't been watching ESPN, I mostly watch NFLN, so I can't comment on what I think of ESPN's behavior. I can believe that there has been a negative slant most of the time. Some of it IS deserved, imo, but, dang, it should be over already. I was speaking more to the IR rule and its enforcement more than the perception and reaction by ESPN and others. Thanks for the comments, they were enlightening.

sdfan

Exactly. We feel the same way...it SHOULD be over already. But ESPN keeps beating the dead horse, piling on, whatever cliche you like. So, while I don't speak for every Pats fan, I think I have an idea about most of them, before we even know the facts, we feel like "Ok, ESPN is revving up the BS machine again." And alot of fans are more than willing to jump in and support whatever ESPN says.

We all heard Commisioner Goodell mention there was an IR rule broken during his press conference. Why wasn't ESPN beating this drum that day? Because they knew once the Spygate furor simmered down they could pull the IR thing out of their back pocket and whip people into a frenzy again.

He also said the penalty for practicing a guy on IR is a fine. But ESPN fails to report that. They (and their guests like Joey "I will only jump someone with 4 friends around" Porter) plant the idea of asteriks and suspensions and how every locker room hates BB.

 

[pao]

My point is there should NO INJURY LISTS WHATSOEVER. Why is there an injury list in the first place? Only to cater to the billion dollar industry of GAMBLING.

Belichicks job is as a coach. Part of that job is protecting his players. By specifying a players injury you're giving the opponent information on where he could hit him and possibly take him out of the game or end his career.

The NFL wants specific information on players injuries to keep people in Vegas happy. Protecting players from injury is the least of their concern. They could care less about the health and well being of their employee's. That especially evident with how they treat retired veterns.

Well now we are getting into whether the IR rule is good or not. That's a whole other discussion.

If protecting you're players from a mob-run gambling enterprise requires "cheating", then yes. I'm all for it.

Yeah, yeah, that's what BB was doing. He was "protecting" that guy from evil gamblers. Right. Dang, that was pretty twisted how you got from letting a player on IR practice against the rules to it's ok to do it to protect your players from mob-run gambling enterprises. Wow.

You'll be crying about cheating come October 12th when you get stomped in your own house. I'm going to teach my son why it's not good to be a sore loser by pointing out your posts.

That may be difficult since my posts aren't an example of being a sore loser. I haven't once said anything about a game between the Patriots and Chargers in this thread. But I guess anyone that could get to "it's ok to cheat to protect players from the mob" from allowing a player to practice on IR against the rules can come up with just about anything. Good luck with that, I hope it helps your kid.

Enjoy the cry-baby soup loser. Again.

Dang, you really put me in my place with that one. sniffle, sniffle.

sdfan

 

[Mogamedogz]

As long as you all continue to feed the monster with 10 page discussions on message boards across the internet... The beast will continue to grow and grow and grow.

Pats fans don’t seem to realize it, but WE are the ones driving this train. As soon as we stop reacting to every little negative thing they throw out there, they will move on to the next shiny little object.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

As long as you all continue to feed the monster with 10 page discussions on message boards across the internet... The beast will continue to grow and grow and grow.

Pats fans don’t seem to realize it, but WE are the ones driving this train. As soon as we stop reacting to every little negative thing they throw out there, they will move on to the next shiny little object.

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but imo you're wrong - they aren't trying to get a rise out of us...that isn't the point of their witch hunt, they're trying to get a rise out of the other fans by reporting semi-truths and omitting information as they sensationalize nothing after nothing. Personally, I feel like it's my duty to point out the fact that the only taints involved are the ones reporting the stories. But I guarantee you that if we, at patsfans and other Pats forums stop talking about it, ESPN and other fans will most certainly not stop their smear campaign. We may not help (I like to think we do) but we are certainly not the ones fueling the fire by any stretch.

 

[captain stone]

Please identify "real cheating" by the above mentioned, that they have been caught doing, that has gone unpunished. Specifically the "Dolts". Please.

sdfan

How about the end-of-regular-season game that was fixed btwn. Non-Competition Committee comrades Jeff the Fisher king and Dad of the Year Dungheap, so that Tenn. made the POs?

How about zebras in NaPolian's back pocket?

How about artificial crowd noise?

Do I really need to go on?

 

[blackglass3]

As long as you all continue to feed the monster with 10 page discussions on message boards across the internet... The beast will continue to grow and grow and grow.

Pats fans don’t seem to realize it, but WE are the ones driving this train. As soon as we stop reacting to every little negative thing they throw out there, they will move on to the next shiny little object.

Sorry, but I have to agree with Zeke. If we stick our heads in the sand, ESPN will continue to report this and chip away at BB's legacy.

 

[Boondr]

I would have put this in a new topic but my postcount precludes that.

how is this any different than players on IR practicing? Both involve violations of practice rules.

Only difference I see is that one was by the Patriots and the other was by multiple other teams.



http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/24/bucs-asking-for-trouble/