PFT: High-level executive: "IR issue way bigger than taping"

[OhExaulted1]

Many here just want to disregard this saying no big deal.

But it is. Cheating in any way is NOT acceptable.
If you think it is ... we have nothing to discuss.
If you believe Cheating is ok .... I just hope you are not responsible for
raising children.

Cheating is Cheating .... and it is wrong! it is not the message you want to
give to the youth of our Nation.

Assume this is true about ... Belichick allowing an IRed player to practice
then we got another violation of rules by our head coach.
How many other rules has he violated in order to get a competitive
advantage?

This is wrong and shows the Character of this man. Basically this man
is showing what he believes by his actions. It surely seems that
coach Belichick believes it is alright to break the rules if you don't get
caught. His sense of right and wrong gets thrown under the rug when
he is trying to get a competitive advantage.
He may be the greatest Xs and Os guy ever but he cheats and it
breaks my heart because I have believed in and defended this man more
times then I can remember.

If you want a prime example of breaking rules, lying and cheating maybe you should take a look at our government and the media. This is sports. No one is going to lose their life. No one is going to lose their house or job over someone practicing while on IR.

Think about that. How many guys go back to work when still injured but simply can't sustain with Workmans Comp? Do companies look the other way? Do they look the other way in unhealthy and unsafe working enviroments? Sure, some get caught. Most do not.

I am a father and I'm going to make sure my kid knows the difference between the real world and the fake world the media portrays. Some football player making hundreds of thousands of dollars practices while he's "hurt". Big E'ffn deal.

If I wanted my kid to emulate sports figures as his main source of character and integrity, then I've already failed as a parent. It's my job to help him set his values and I will never let the media set that agenda for me.

If you want to send the right message to the "youth of this nation" you do it as a parent. You don't leave it up to someone they see on TV.

 

[PonyExpress]

Many here just want to disregard this saying no big deal.

But it is. Cheating in any way is NOT acceptable.
If you think it is ... we have nothing to discuss.
If you believe Cheating is ok .... I just hope you are not responsible for
raising children.

Cheating is Cheating .... and it is wrong! it is not the message you want to
give to the youth of our Nation.

Assume this is true about ... Belichick allowing an IRed player to practice
then we got another violation of rules by our head coach.
How many other rules has he violated in order to get a competitive
advantage?

This is wrong and shows the Character of this man. Basically this man
is showing what he believes by his actions. It surely seems that
coach Belichick believes it is alright to break the rules if you don't get
caught. His sense of right and wrong gets thrown under the rug when
he is trying to get a competitive advantage.
He may be the greatest Xs and Os guy ever but he cheats and it
breaks my heart because I have believed in and defended this man more
times then I can remember.

You really know nothing about football. its origins, its history, its strategy, the men who created it, how it developed, what it is. You have been told Football is a college math test, and that's what you believe. So when the people who tell you it is a college math test tell you someone "cheated' it offends your delicate sensibilities.

I don't blame you. You just don't know the game.

If you understood that football was created by military men to mimick war; that it flourished in its origins at military institutions; that the greatest coaches in its history were all military vets or coached at the academies; you would realize that the military ethos permeates the game to its foundations.

These men brought a military perspective on physical training, formations, assignments terminology, scouting and intelligence. The one principle rule is: Think Out of the Box.

Every rule must be creatively bent, every loophole exploited. That's what Halas, Brown, Lombardi, Landry all did. And no one got in trouble because it was a boy will be boys barracks culture.

But now you have a media watching the game that has no comprehension of its ethos, and commissioner who grew up with a silver spoon up his @$$. They are judging a military game by a University "honor code" and you are falling for it. And it's pathetic.

 

[fgssand]

Many here just want to disregard this saying no big deal.

But it is. Cheating in any way is NOT acceptable.
If you think it is ... we have nothing to discuss.
If you believe Cheating is ok .... I just hope you are not responsible for
raising children.

Cheating is Cheating .... and it is wrong! it is not the message you want to
give to the youth of our Nation.

Assume this is true about ... Belichick allowing an IRed player to practice
then we got another violation of rules by our head coach.
How many other rules has he violated in order to get a competitive
advantage?

This is wrong and shows the Character of this man. Basically this man
is showing what he believes by his actions. It surely seems that
coach Belichick believes it is alright to break the rules if you don't get
caught. His sense of right and wrong gets thrown under the rug when
he is trying to get a competitive advantage.
He may be the greatest Xs and Os guy ever but he cheats and it
breaks my heart because I have believed in and defended this man more
times then I can remember.

Come on JR......Pony's response to you was dead nuts on.

Do not let the likes of FESPN or other mediots get to you......they have an agenda driven by Comcast & ratings to stir things up and make us look bad.

The more they whip things up - the more people watch and respond.

Best thing you can do is step back and enjoy the greatest football team that has ever played this game win a few more championships.

As Pony pointed out, there is nothing this team is doing that hasn't been done since football started.

Tell me what he Raiders philosophy back in their period of excellence was....I'll help you:

"Al Davis coined the notorious phrase, "Just win, baby," but the images of Hayes' Stickum-coated jerseys are undisputed evidence that he was a devoted believer in that philosophy.

Hayes played on two of the Raiders' three Super Bowl championship teams, and he wasn't the only player who knew how to gain an advantage. "The sole focus of our team was to win consistently," said Hayes, who helped the Raiders win Super Bowls XV and XVIII. "Whether it was a mental or a physical advantage, we were going to do whatever was necessary to win. Our attitude was that if we could get away with something, we were going to do it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/cheat/news/story?id=2957892

Its only football dude.....

 

[Hardboiled]

Odd how the "a high-level exec" is saying CameraGate was overblown now. He was writing to Florio with the same opinion over the last 8 months?

 

[JR4]

You really know nothing about football. its origins, its history, its strategy, the men who created it, how it developed, what it is. You have been told Football is a college math test, and that's what you believe. So when the people who tell you it is a college math test tell you someone "cheated' it offends your delicate sensibilities.

I don't blame you. You just don't know the game.

If you understood that football was created by military men to mimick war; that it flourished in its origins at military institutions; that the greatest coaches in its history were all military vets or coached at the academies; you would realize that the military ethos permeates the game to its foundations.

These men brought a military perspective on physical training, formations, assignments terminology, scouting and intelligence. The one principle rule is: Think Out of the Box.

Every rule must be creatively bent, every loophole exploited. That's what Halas, Brown, Lombardi, Landry all did. And no one got in trouble because it was a boy will be boys barracks culture.

But now you have a media watching the game that has no comprehension of its ethos, and commissioner who grew up with a silver spoon up his @$$. They are judging a military game by a University "honor code" and you are falling for it. And it's pathetic.

Poney, I may not know much about alot of things but I know this.
This is a game with rules.
War is not a game it has no rules.
Big Difference ...

IF what you imply "all the biggies did it .. so it's Ok" is what you believe then I suppose you live that way.
Listen guys ... the real world is bad right now and at the root of it all
is the notion it's ok to break the rules ... every one does it.
Winning is all that counts in the end. But that is a whole ....big big topic ...

Cheating is not right it is wrong and Belichick is a cheat. Like it or not
that is the bottom line and all the twisting, excuses, history lessons and finger pointing will not change that fact.

 

[pao]

Of for phuck's sake...I am reading Management Secrets of the NEP published in 2005 by James Lavin and on page 196, which I just read YESTERDAY he states for all and sundry to read that "...the Patriots sat him (Kliff Kingsbury) down and told him he would be 'injured' in 2003. The Patriots wanted to retain Kingsbury and let him learn their offense, but they couldn't sacrifice an active roster spot for a rookie quarterback who would never make it off the bench." How serious could this type of IR related thing be if it was written right out in the open by a guy who has a ton of respect for the Pats?

WTH?

sdfan

 

[pao]

If they start investigating IR stashing, then they might as well punish the whole league because Kraft and Belichick are not going to be the only whipping boys on this one.

It's not like the league went looking for it. Walsh brought it up, Tucker confirms it. BB's "misinterpretation" put the Patriots in the spotlight now every little thing is blown out of proportion.

sdfan

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Poney, I may not know much about alot of things

You don't say!?!

but I know this.

I'm already skeptical

This is a game with rules
War is not a game it has no rules.

I think you were right the first time...

Big Difference ...
IF what you imply "all the biggies did it .. so it's Ok" is what you believe then I suppose you live that way.
Listen guys ... the real world is bad right now and at the root of it all
is the notion it's ok to break the rules ... every one does it.
Winning is all that counts in the end. But that is a whole ....big big topic ...

The real world has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COACH OF THE NEP. You should have quit at "I may not know much about alot[sic] of things"

Cheating is not right it is wrong

And the tooth fairy brings you a quarter when you lose a baby tooth, and Santa is real and so is the Easter Bunny and Mr. Moppet went to go stay with Aunt Berta on the farm where he could run around and...

and Belichick is a cheat.

I go back to your first point.

Like it or not
that is the bottom line and all the twisting, excuses, history lessons and finger pointing will not change that fact.

No, the bottom line is you should have quit when you were ahead...just because every idiot in the media has a dumb opinion doesn't give every other idiot the right to voice their dumb opinion. Please STFU and go back to the Jets, Bolts, Colts, Dolts or whatever board you came from.

 

[DaBruinz]

Many here just want to disregard this saying no big deal.

But it is. Cheating in any way is NOT acceptable.
If you think it is ... we have nothing to discuss.
If you believe Cheating is ok .... I just hope you are not responsible for
raising children.

Cheating is Cheating .... and it is wrong! it is not the message you want to
give to the youth of our Nation.

Assume this is true about ... Belichick allowing an IRed player to practice
then we got another violation of rules by our head coach.
How many other rules has he violated in order to get a competitive
advantage?

This is wrong and shows the Character of this man. Basically this man
is showing what he believes by his actions. It surely seems that
coach Belichick believes it is alright to break the rules if you don't get
caught. His sense of right and wrong gets thrown under the rug when
he is trying to get a competitive advantage.
He may be the greatest Xs and Os guy ever but he cheats and it
breaks my heart because I have believed in and defended this man more
times then I can remember.

I'm going to ask you some questions. Answer honestly.

1) Do you speed?
2) Do you change lanes without using your blinker?
3) Do you wear your seatbelt?
4) Do you hit the gas when you see the light turn yellow?

If you answered yes to any of those, then you are a hypocrite for complaining about Belichick and the IR rule.

 

[DaBruinz]

Poney, I may not know much about alot of things but I know this.
This is a game with rules.
War is not a game it has no rules.
Big Difference ...

IF what you imply "all the biggies did it .. so it's Ok" is what you believe then I suppose you live that way.
Listen guys ... the real world is bad right now and at the root of it all
is the notion it's ok to break the rules ... every one does it.
Winning is all that counts in the end. But that is a whole ....big big topic ...

Cheating is not right it is wrong and Belichick is a cheat. Like it or not
that is the bottom line and all the twisting, excuses, history lessons and finger pointing will not change that fact.

Why is Belichick a cheat? WHAT competitive advantage does it truly give people DURING the game if a person on the IR practices? Be HONEST here.

No, the ROOT of all the issues in the world right now is that no one takes responsibility for their actions. Not this BS idea of yours that its ok to break the rules.

If you really feel that way, send your Jersey to Bob Kraft telling him that you're sorry and can't root for the team anymore. Then go root for the Colts. OH WAIT. They cheat too with all the holding they do during games. And all the pass interference they get away with. Not to mention the noise they pipe into the stadium. Hmmm.. Maybe the Raiders...errr.. nope.. The Cowboys... errr... nope.. Umm.. Hmm.. I got it.. The Jets.. OH Wait. Nope.. They cheat too.... So do the Dolphins.. Hmm.. I know.. You can root for the Arizona Cardinals... There you go. I don't know of them having cheated at all.. well.. wait.. I seem to remember something about the owners....

The fact of the matter is that you are making a mountain out of a molehill and that this really isn't a big issue. Roger Goodell said so himself. So why are you making it one?

 

[DaBruinz]

It's not like the league went looking for it. Walsh brought it up, Tucker confirms it. BB's "misinterpretation" put the Patriots in the spotlight now every little thing is blown out of proportion.

sdfan

This is NOT a new issue for the league. Why do people think it is? Other teams have done it and gotten caught. They paid a fine. A MINOR fine. But that's it.

 

[pao]

Are your hands sore from all the wringing?

Funny, you see hand wringing, I see ethics.

Get over yourself,...

What is that supposed to mean? Get over yourself? LOL.

...this is just ESPN making up a story that fits their agenda.

This story is most certainly not made up by ESPN. Brought up by Walsh, confirmed by Tucker.

Goodell said these types of things are never reported...which is why we have never heard of it from other teams.

Total BS. You either misquoted or "misinterpreted" what Goodell said. And we have not heard of it from other teams because other teams have not been caught doing it.

sdfan

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Funny, you see hand wringing, I see ethics.

What is that supposed to mean? Get over yourself? LOL.
This story is most certainly not made up by ESPN. Brought up by Walsh, confirmed by Tucker.
Total BS. You either misquoted or "misinterpreted" what Goodell said. And we have not heard of it from other teams because other teams have not been caught doing it.

sdfan

Strong arguments, except that this was recorded in the public view for years with regard to the Kliff Kingsbury quote given earlier - if it was significant, it would have been handled then. More to the point, Goodell already put this to bed and lumped it in with the fine we received. By the way, Walsh left in 03 iirc and Tucker Carlson was here in 05, one can't confirm the other as you try to insinuate. Neither has any credibility or proof, one has an axe to grind, the other has a career to kick start, and neither have a shred of evidence. If you can't keep up, please let us know so we can assign you a Short Bus and a Helmet.

 

[pao]

If you want a prime example of breaking rules, lying and cheating maybe you should take a look at our government and the media. This is sports. No one is going to lose their life. No one is going to lose their house or job over someone practicing while on IR.

It is still against the rules, like it or not. It doesn't matter how much you prove that others elsewhere are breaking rules it is what it is. Cheating. Putting any other name on it, or comparing it to other forms of cheating doesn't change the facts.

Think about that. How many guys go back to work when still injured but simply can't sustain with Workmans Comp? Do companies look the other way? Do they look the other way in unhealthy and unsafe working enviroments? Sure, some get caught. Most do not.

What does that have to do with breaking the rule for players on IR? NOTHING. It is wrong. Stop doing it until they change the rule. Who cares what other companies or guys on Worker's Comp are doing. It has nothing to do with this.

I am a father and I'm going to make sure my kid knows the difference between the real world and the fake world the media portrays. Some football player making hundreds of thousands of dollars practices while he's "hurt". Big E'ffn deal.

So what you're telling your kid is it's ok to break the rules, in a word to cheat. He is the one that determines what rules to break or not? Interesting. You say "Big E'ffn deal" but what you fail to realise is that the IR rules are there to protect the player too. The organisation is taking advantage of some players if they put them on IR then force them to practice, especially if they're not really hurt.

If I wanted my kid to emulate sports figures as his main source of character and integrity, then I've already failed as a parent. It's my job to help him set his values and I will never let the media set that agenda for me. If you want to send the right message to the "youth of this nation" you do it as a parent. You don't leave it up to someone they see on TV.

Everyone in life is a role model. From the single mother down the street to Bill Bellichik. It is our job as parents to teach our children the difference between a good role model and a bad role model. Unless you don't allow your kids to watch TV or sporting events you better believe they are learning something from what they are watching, good and bad.

sdfan

 

[DaBruinz]

Total BS. You either misquoted or "misinterpreted" what Goodell said. And we have not heard of it from other teams because other teams have not been caught doing it.

sdfan

Actually, Mr. "I don't know wtf I'm talking about" SDFAN, Goodell said that this sort of thing is handled internally and is NOT reported to the press. Its handled with a fine. He insinuated that this is something that goes on in the league and the league handles it as the minor issue that it is.

So, you wouldn't have heard of it from other teams regardless of whether or not they got caught doing it. Because its an internal league issue. You don't hear about how every little operation works in the NFL so please take your BS opinion and go away already.

 

[pao]

This is NOT a new issue for the league. Why do people think it is? Other teams have done it and gotten caught. They paid a fine. A MINOR fine. But that's it.

I agree with you. It's done. They were wrong, they got punished, move on. I have a problem with people that try to claim there is nothing wrong with having players on IR practice with the team, a clear violation of the rules.

sdfan

 

[DaBruinz]

It is still against the rules, like it or not. It doesn't matter how much you prove that others elsewhere are breaking rules it is what it is. Cheating. Putting any other name on it, or comparing it to other forms of cheating doesn't change the facts.

Its not cheating. But people like yourself think that breaking a rule = cheating regardless of what occurs. Well, I have news for you. You're wrong. Just because you break a rule doesn't mean you are cheating. And its stupid for you to think that.

What does that have to do with breaking the rule for players on IR? NOTHING. It is wrong. Stop doing it until they change the rule. Who cares what other companies or guys on Worker's Comp are doing. It has nothing to do with this.

It was an example that was clearly LOST on you.

So what you're telling your kid is it's ok to break the rules, in a word to cheat. He is the one that determines what rules to break or not? Interesting. You say "Big E'ffn deal" but what you fail to realise is that the IR rules are there to protect the player too. The organisation is taking advantage of some players if they put them on IR then force them to practice, especially if they're not really hurt.

Unlike you, I tell my kids that just because you break a rule doesn't mean that you are cheating. There is a difference and I tell them so. Its not black and white like you claim.

How is the organization taking advantage of a player by teaching them and allowing them to LEARN the skill in which they are applying their trade? Also, you are making a huge assumption that the team FORCED the player to do this.

Everyone in life is a role model. From the single mother down the street to Bill Bellichik. It is our job as parents to teach our children the difference between a good role model and a bad role model. Unless you don't allow your kids to watch TV or sporting events you better believe they are learning something from what they are watching, good and bad.

sdfan

Unlike YOU, I sit down with my kids and talk with them and let them know that there is certain behavior that is acceptable and certain behavior that is not. I also explain that there are rules that are guidelines and rules that are not to be broken.

BTW, its pretty laughable that you sit here and preach about role models and such when you have some of the worst examples of role models on the Chargers that the sporting scene has ever had the pleasure of seeing.

 

[pao]

Strong arguments, except that this was recorded in the public view for years with regard to the Kliff Kingsbury quote given earlier - if it was significant, it would have been handled then. More to the point, Goodell already put this to bed and lumped it in with the fine we received.

I agree! The Patriots IR thing has been addressed by the league, punishment handed down and paid. It's over. I just have a problem with people that can't accept that it was wrong to break the rule.

By the way, Walsh left in 03 iirc and Tucker Carlson was here in 05, one can't confirm the other as you try to insinuate.

Walsh reported it to Goodell. Tucker confirms that he was a witness to the same thing happening. I'm not trying to tie the two together as a confirmation of either incident, just that there is more than one source, and one of them at least, imo, is pretty credible.

If you can't keep up, please let us know so we can assign you a Short Bus and a Helmet.

Wow, cool, are you going to send me a helmet! I'll PM you my address. Where's the bus? I don't want to miss it!!

sdfan

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree with you. It's done. They were wrong, they got punished, move on. I have a problem with people that try to claim there is nothing wrong with having players on IR practice with the team, a clear violation of the rules.

sdfan

How can you agree with me when you claimed that no other team had gotten caught? Dude, you are seriously confused and need to just stop speaking.

 

[bradmahn]

If you want a prime example of breaking rules, lying and cheating maybe you should take a look at our government and the media. This is sports. No one is going to lose their life. No one is going to lose their house or job over someone practicing while on IR.

Think about that. How many guys go back to work when still injured but simply can't sustain with Workmans Comp? Do companies look the other way? Do they look the other way in unhealthy and unsafe working enviroments? Sure, some get caught. Most do not.

I am a father and I'm going to make sure my kid knows the difference between the real world and the fake world the media portrays. Some football player making hundreds of thousands of dollars practices while he's "hurt". Big E'ffn deal.

If I wanted my kid to emulate sports figures as his main source of character and integrity, then I've already failed as a parent. It's my job to help him set his values and I will never let the media set that agenda for me.

If you want to send the right message to the "youth of this nation" you do it as a parent. You don't leave it up to someone they see on TV.

Excellent post.

Deferred parenting is a scapegoat (oh no, the videogames!) and it's refreshing to see someone accept responsibility.