Pete Prisco: "Old and slow linebacking corps will hurt Patriots' chances"

[Bo0MeR]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Here is the difference:

*********DISCLAIMER*****************

I have never had an Indy fan logically respond to this. It is either completely ignored or they respond with some comment about whining. I honestly don't expect otherwise anymore, but I will try again.

*********DISCLAIMER*****************

1) The first Indy/NE AFCCG was officiated consistently. Notice that I didn't say "fairly" because it was clear that both teams bent the rules a little. NE definitely got away with some IC, but Indy got away with plenty of OL holds and they were given three full seconds after the play clock hit zero on two seperate occasions. The officials didn't call anything it was consistent.

2) Your jack off of a GM actually was politicing for calls the week before the game. He is a dispicable human being.

3) Despite Polian's complaints that the officials need to call illegal contact, it was Indy that benefited from all three questionable calls. The improper OPI call on Brown when the defender initiated all the contact, the PI call on Hobbs and the worst of them all, the no call on Hayden when he literally grabbed Caldwell with both hands before the ball even appeared on the screen.

Let's review: The Patriots are called for a terribly ticky tack call that the league ultimately admits to Hobbs was incorrect. The Colts are twice allowed to essentially deck the WR without being flagged - actually one got NE flagged!. What I find truly amazing is that the plays that Indy got away with were precisely what Polian was asking the league to call! But beyond that, the calls were embassingly inconsistent. If you want to call the Hobbs call, fine. But then NE has to get both the other ones.

Yes, this is whining. But it is also the truth. Colt fans spent three years complaining about a game that was consistently called, but they scoff at NE fans when the lament about a game that was clearly called in Indy's favor? If you want to call NE fans hypocrites then you must also be willing to look in the mirror.

Guess there's a first for everything

1) I try not to bring this game up much but..... You try to make the argument that the 1st AFCCG NE/IND game was officiated consistently. Tell me whats consistent about this, a team who's VERY offense heavy being aloud to be MAULED by the defense the entire game. I'm sure it was consistent to you, because the NE defenders were aloud to rape our recievers the entire game. And in case you forget the Colts offense is a timing based offense, that makes a HUGE difference to how "consistent" you seem to think this was. NE being aloud to interefere with the recievers as much as they did GREATLY affected the Colts more than the Pats for the simple fact the Colts are more so built around the offense and their passing game. And as BLATENT and OBVIOUS MULTIPLE penalties were in that particular game. As far as your other claims against the Colts for that game I can't say I saw them or knew about them but I can't say they didn't happen either, its just maybe I was too PO'ed about the mauling our receivers were legally given in that game

2) OF COURSE Polian politiced after the game, he's a freaking GM what exactly is he supposed to do? Maybe try to better his teams chances of being successful?? Obviously his politiciing was warranted seeing how the NFL REINFORCED THE RULES BECAUSE OF HOW OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD BEEN IGNORED. You read that? The NFL did that, not Polian or Irsay. You can sit here and argue all day on how Polian got those rules re-inforced (not changed or added) but the fact of the matter is they were re-inforced by the NFL (not sent some "apology letter", you know what I'm talking about)

3) Find me one SB winner in the last 10 years that has not benefited from questionable calls somewhere along their run. I still don't think what you'r beef about in this game will ever come close to the 1st AFCCG between these two teams but I think we will have to agree and disagree on these points. Still, the referrees didn't allow NE to BLOW a 18 point lead

No matter how you put it, the results are the results. You learn that after watching your team lose in some unfavorable manners in the playoffs. Myself and the majority of Colts fans will ALWAYS think that the First AFCCG was one of the biggest travesties in NFL history. But now we have that big shiny trophy to wipe away some of those tears. Now understandably your team has now been beaten by the Colts 3 times in a row and you find yourself on the opposite end of this feeling, so for as about sincere as I can be to Pats Fan....I feel where you're coming from. But sitting here and trying to argue this point when your own team has benefited from questionable to just plain TERRIBLE (ie tuck rule) calls throughout their entire superbowl run is just kind of ironic to me

 

[Fixit]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Sanders YANK on Clarks arm in the end zone took away four points.
I don't remember that one clearly, but you may have a point. I'd have to see it again.

Troy Brown RAN INTO, and PICKED our D, great call.
Uh, no. Replays clearly showed the defender moving back into Brown's path just before contact. And that would have been legal, because it was within 5 yards, but it sure as hell wasn't OFFENSIVE PI.

Gaffney's "push out" was as big a gift as there has ever been.
As I recall, Gaffney tiptoed the endline, went straight up and was coming straight down. If you think that's "as big a gift as there has ever been" in the history of football, you are in sore need of some history lessons.

PI, league admitted? Bull****. Reported by some bogus Pats publication. Dude was burned, Reggie attempts to catch, Hobbs runs into him, preventing the catch. I don't give a **** if face guarding is not called anymore, no way Hobbs should benefit from his poor defense on that play.
Hobbs never "ran into him." That's flat-out fantasy on your part. The last sentence in your post tells me that you agree the call was wrong, but you're fine with it because you disagree with the rule anyway. That makes sense.

Stop your *****ing and move the hell on.

Your whole post is idiocy.

Then again, aren't you the guy who disputes that Caldwell was interfered with? That tells me how good your eyes are.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Guess there's a first for everything

1) I try not to bring this game up much but..... You try to make the argument that the 1st AFCCG NE/IND game was officiated consistently. Tell me whats consistent about this, a team who's VERY offense heavy being aloud to be MAULED by the defense the entire game. I'm sure it was consistent to you, because the NE defenders were aloud to rape our recievers the entire game. And in case you forget the Colts offense is a timing based offense, that makes a HUGE difference to how "consistent" you seem to think this was. NE being aloud to interefere with the recievers as much as they did GREATLY affected the Colts more than the Pats for the simple fact the Colts are more so built around the offense and their passing game. And as BLATENT and OBVIOUS MULTIPLE penalties were in that particular game. As far as your other claims against the Colts for that game I can't say I saw them or knew about them but I can't say they didn't happen either, its just maybe I was too PO'ed about the mauling our receivers were legally given in that game

2) OF COURSE Polian politiced after the game, he's a freaking GM what exactly is he supposed to do? Maybe try to better his teams chances of being successful?? Obviously his politiciing was warranted seeing how the NFL REINFORCED THE RULES BECAUSE OF HOW OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD BEEN IGNORED. You read that? The NFL did that, not Polian or Irsay. You can sit here and argue all day on how Polian got those rules re-inforced (not changed or added) but the fact of the matter is they were re-inforced by the NFL (not sent some "apology letter, you know what I'm talking about)

3) Find me one SB winner in the last 10 years that has not benefited from questionable calls somewhere along their run. I still don't think what you'r beef about in this game will ever come close to the AFCCG of 03, but I think we will have to agree and disagree on these points. Still, the referrees didn't allow NE to BLOW a 18 point lead

No matter how you put it, the results are the results. You learn that after watching your team lose in some unfavorable manners in the playoffs. Myself and the majority of Colts fans will ALWAYS think that the First AFCCG was one of the biggest travesties in NFL history. But now we have that big shiny trophy to wipe away some of those tears. Now understandably your team has now been beaten by the Colts 3 times in a row and you find yourself on the opposite end of this feeling, so for as about sincere as I can be to Pats Fan....I feel where you're coming from. But sitting here and trying to argue point when you're own team has benefited from questionable to just plain TERRIBLE (ie tuck rule) calls throughout their entire superbowl run is just kind of ironic to me

I appreciate you comments.

1) I agree with you that NE got away with plenty of rough stuff. But you can trust me when I tell you that Indy had three "grabbing the back of the jersey" type holds in that game. Indy fans may have no reason to have that game saved, but I know that I do.

BTW, the most blatant PI - the Phifer/Pollard play on 4th down - was actually an obvious push off by Pollard. Phifer grabs his wrist because Pollard is shoving his arm into Phifer's chest.

I can see your point. But I still stand by the fact that both teams were given the same treatment.

2) Polian was politicing for calls 3 years after the game in question and 3 years after the competition committee made a "re-emphasis" of the rule. Did he *really* need to bring it up again?

3) You are correct. I have said on numerous occassions that despite all my complaints, Indy still needed to play a near perfect second half to win that game. And they did. The defense made a terrific tackle to stop a Heath Evans 3rd down conversion. They won the battle at the LOS whenever NE tried to run in the second half. They were virtually unstoppable on offense and made a few tactical changes that went against how Indy usually attacks. No matter who was out on the field, Indy still needed to drive 80 yards with only 2:30 minutes left and probably could have done it in less than a minute if they really wanted to.

But I still help think about how that game would have gone had Watson's 1st down on the 19 with NE up 21-3 stayed. NE was going in for a TD and everyone knew it - especially Indy's D. But the call changed things and then Gafney was flagged and then it was a 3rd and really long out of FG range.

With the way Indy's offense was playing, the Hobbs call was possibly irrelevent, but Hayden one was huge. Give NE the probable 7 points instead of 3 and they are in their typical position - driving for a game winning FG at the end.

NE had their chances. Even at the end, Evans was wide open when the game sealing int occured. I am not excusing NE nor am I implying that Indy was handed the game. All I am saying is that so much went against NE in that game, that it is impossible to garner anything meaningful from it as a basis for future projections. I truly do believe that NE suffered through a historic level of unhealth during that game and that most teams - including Indy - would have had their doors blown in if the shoe was on their foot. Nothing against Indy, I feel the same way about Baltimore and SD, just that people don't seem to realize - or don't want to - that NE overcame a ridiculous amount of crap just to be close in that game.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Souhnds like a bunch of whining and excuses to me. Here are the facts I know

1.) Patriots had the biggest choke in Conference championship history (100% True and verified)

2) The Colts beat the Patriots and are the current and defending Superbowl Champions (100% true and verified)

You keep brinnging up these "circumstances" (That NO player who played in the game for the Pats has ever come close yo verifying) just sound like bad excuses to me. You keep playing the if, and, and but game and trying to push it off as fact. Just accept the better team won the game and the SB and stop pushing this list of excuses

Points one and two are completely true and verified.

Enjoy it while it lasts. The second one is harder.

 

[He Ban Me]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Your whole post is idiocy.

Then again, aren't you the guy who disputes that Caldwell was interfered with? That tells me how good your eyes are.

I guess we disagree on Brown. Our man had position, Brown pushed off.

On Gaffney, IMO, an incredibly interesting play just from a pure football/referee/freak play. Great effort by Gaffney to

1.) Stay in bounds the entire play (seemingly, hard to tell if his heels were touching before he jumped)
2.) Maintain concentration and hold onto the ball

I think this play is overlooked way too much. Here is how I see it, maybe to much for a ref to think about in that span, although they did consult one another-

When Gaffney goes up, he is just barely in, his leap and the ball in his hands while in mid air puts his upper body off balance (and force of the ball initiates some backward momentum). Naturally, one leg/foot comes down while the other is trying to establish some balance by staying higher in the air. Eventually, his hips are actually closer to the ground than his second leg/foot. I think it is a difficult proposition at this point to say that his second foot comes down in bounds at all, and definately comes down AFTER his lower back/hips hit the turf, out of bounds. Point is that this was not a lay down decision. There was a call in the Atlanta game the other night that clearly shows that the receiver WOULD have gotten both feet in bounds, were it not for the defender pushing him out, but no call. Generally, in my experience, referees are not very generous when making this call, and I don't think there was ONE IOTA of evidence in that play where the ref should have assumed and granted the second foot. Again, great play be Gaffney, but generous as well. Take that call, and the call on Clark, and you have an eight point swing. I still say on the Wayne call that the man was beat, Reggie had the position, the ball was NOT over or under thrown, no way does NE deserve to benefit from that play. He got beat, and paid for it. Hey '03 hurts, '04 just sucked, and we got our ass whipped. In '06, HAD you secure HFA (by beating us in NE), you guys get us at home and probably win that game. As it turned, Colts had HFA, and took full advantage of it, by winning the game.

 

[Fixit]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

I guess we disagree on Brown. Our man had position, Brown pushed off.

On Gaffney, IMO, an incredibly interesting play just from a pure football/referee/freak play. Great effort by Gaffney to

1.) Stay in bounds the entire play (seemingly, hard to tell if his heels were touching before he jumped)
2.) Maintain concentration and hold onto the ball

I think this play is overlooked way too much. Here is how I see it, maybe to much for a ref to think about in that span, although they did consult one another-

When Gaffney goes up, he is just barely in, his leap and the ball in his hands while in mid air puts his upper body off balance (and force of the ball initiates some backward momentum). Naturally, one leg/foot comes down while the other is trying to establish some balance by staying higher in the air. Eventually, his hips are actually closer to the ground than his second leg/foot. I think it is a difficult proposition at this point to say that his second foot comes down in bounds at all, and definately comes down AFTER his lower back/hips hit the turf, out of bounds. Point is that this was not a lay down decision. There was a call in the Atlanta game the other night that clearly shows that the receiver WOULD have gotten both feet in bounds, were it not for the defender pushing him out, but no call. Generally, in my experience, referees are not very generous when making this call, and I don't think there was ONE IOTA of evidence in that play where the ref should have assumed and granted the second foot. Again, great play be Gaffney, but generous as well. Take that call, and the call on Clark, and you have an eight point swing. I still say on the Wayne call that the man was beat, Reggie had the position, the ball was NOT over or under thrown, no way does NE deserve to benefit from that play. He got beat, and paid for it. Hey '03 hurts, '04 just sucked, and we got our ass whipped. In '06, HAD you secure HFA (by beating us in NE), you guys get us at home and probably win that game. As it turned, Colts had HFA, and took full advantage of it, by winning the game.

This is awesome. You're all about enforcement of existing rules, unless it'll cost your team points.

What if the ball had simply hit the back of Hobbs' helmet? Should he be flagged for PI then, or was it his hands up in the air that bothered you? It doesn't matter what you think of the rule, it's a rule...or non-rule, as it were.

It was clear that Gaffney kept his heels up the entire time he was on the endline. Saying it was "hard to tell" is, again, fantasy.

No comment about Caldwell getting mugged, I see.

Now, take a look at this and tell me the defender didn't move back into Brown's path:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrjk7Rg8K7k

If you say he wasn't, you're either blind or a liar. That's a non-call, period.

 

[He Ban Me]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

This is awesome. You're all about enforcement of existing rules, unless it'll cost your team points.

What if the ball had simply hit the back of Hobbs' helmet? Should he be flagged for PI then, or was it his hands up in the air that bothered you? It doesn't matter what you think of the rule, it's a rule...or non-rule, as it were.

It was clear that Gaffney kept his heels up the entire time he was on the endline. Saying it was "hard to tell" is, again, fantasy.

No comment about Caldwell getting mugged, I see.

Now, take a look at this and tell me the defender didn't move back into Brown's path:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrjk7Rg8K7k

If you say he wasn't, you're either blind or a liar. That's a non-call, period.

LOL, that piece of **** video where the contact is just out of view, puhleeze! Back of helmet, depends on where his helmet is, if he's a couple yards from Wayne, then I'd say the ball was underthrown, no flag.

CLEAR that his heels were up, HARDLY CLEAR, his heels/ankles were white, area beyond end zone was white, he certainly was NOT up on his tippy toes, maybe you could have slid a piece of paper underneath, I don't know.

Sitting at field level. Pats side, that end, I thought for certain a flag would be thrown. As in the Baltimore game, where Wayne flag was picked up, because there was insufficient contact. In addition, Caldwell positioned himself poorly for the catch, it was up over his shoulder, behind his left ear, just a difficult position to have a legit shot at catching it. In the end, probably should have been called, but as many Pats fans on Indy board stated after the game, while the officiating may not have been the greatest, the calls evened out. You guys had 60 minutes, an 18 point lead, and you lost it. That's it, bottom line. Colts earned it and earned their ring. Tally Ho and see you in November. May the best team win and not get robbed by piss poor officiating.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

LOL, that piece of **** video where the contact is just out of view, puhleeze! Back of helmet, depends on where his helmet is, if he's a couple yards from Wayne, then I'd say the ball was underthrown, no flag.

CLEAR that his heels were up, HARDLY CLEAR, his heels/ankles were white, area beyond end zone was white, he certainly was NOT up on his tippy toes, maybe you could have slid a piece of paper underneath, I don't know.

Sitting at field level. Pats side, that end, I thought for certain a flag would be thrown. As in the Baltimore game, where Wayne flag was picked up, because there was insufficient contact. In addition, Caldwell positioned himself poorly for the catch, it was up over his shoulder, behind his left ear, just a difficult position to have a legit shot at catching it. In the end, probably should have been called, but as many Pats fans on Indy board stated after the game, while the officiating may not have been the greatest, the calls evened out. You guys had 60 minutes, an 18 point lead, and you lost it. That's it, bottom line. Colts earned it and earned their ring. Tally Ho and see you in November. May the best team win and not get robbed by piss poor officiating.

Did you watch the entire video? In the opening of the clip you can't see much, but later on they show two slow motion clips were it is clear that the defender steps up into the contact. Neither party did anything wrong and it is the definiton of a non-call.

Caldwell was in fine position if the DB didn't grab him with two hands and keep him from sliding over.

The officiating was badly slanted towards Indy. There is no two ways about it.

I don't expect Indy fans to feel bad about it. Indy dominated NE on their own turf earlier in the year and they had a historic comeback in the playoffs. It is their time in the sun. But there is no reason to steadfastedly deny something that is blatantly obvious. Just shrug and say, "nah, nah, nah, nah-nah, nnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!"

 

[He Ban Me]

Re: Pete Prisco: "Old and slow Linebacking corps will hurt Patriots chances"

Did you watch the entire video? In the opening of the clip you can't see much, but later on they show two slow motion clips were it is clear that the defender steps up into the contact. Neither party did anything wrong and it is the definiton of a non-call.

Caldwell was in fine position if the DB didn't grab him with two hands and keep him from sliding over.

The officiating was badly slanted towards Indy. There is no two ways about it.

I don't expect Indy fans to feel bad about it. Indy dominated NE on their own turf earlier in the year and they had a historic comeback in the playoffs. It is their time in the sun. But there is no reason to steadfastedly deny something that is blatantly obvious. Just shrug and say, "nah, nah, nah, nah-nah, nnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!"

Blatently obvious my ass. You guys are a bunch of ******' whiners. When things go you're way, it's great play, above board, when they don't, excuses, excuses. Screw you and the horse you rode in on buddy.