Per 98.5: Pats won't renew Brandon Lloyd's deal

[eom]

I think it's kind of ironic that he put up almost identical stats to deion branch in 2005, and in another thread there's a guy pissed because they let branch get off the hook after only offering him a 3 yr deal that averaged more than the tag, while in this thread those same receiving numbers have to get lloyd cut because he's due to make half the franchise tag figure this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think it's kind of ironic that he put up almost identical stats to deion branch in 2005, and in another thread there's a guy pissed because they let branch get off the hook after only offering him a 3 yr deal that averaged more than the tag, while in this thread those same receiving numbers have to get lloyd cut because he's due to make half the franchise tag figure this year.

If you go by the numbers he put up (catches and yards), no free agent WR in the BB era has been better. Now, the Patriots have a more in depth grading system, and Lloyd may not score nearly as well there, but the numbers are what they are.

 

[JackBauer]

Have you see the WRs they have drafted over the years? busts. No thanks. Stick to FA where they are good at

Eh. I think as far as the draft goes the notion that past performance is a strong indicator of future performance is tenuous, at best.

 

[BradyFTW!]

BB does not operate like A and B. His decisions are made completly independent of each other regardless of the results.

For example, Sanders was cut for salary cap reasons even though Meriweather had been cut. This left a void at safety for which there
were no options in place.

When Givens left, Branch could have been retained by tearing up the last year of his rookie contract like other teams offered to do. Branch's
departure left the Patriots without their #1 and #2 receivers and no
replacements in sight.

Lloyd will be cut shortly no matter what happens to Welker. Before free
agency, Welker will be presented with a last, best offer well below market value and will be told to take it or leave it. BB will not care one iota that
Slater will be only experienced WR.

I don't disagree, but personally, I'm still holding out hope that maybe Belichick has learned from the two examples that you cited. Because those two decisions are two of the major deciding factors in why the Pats have 3 rings instead of 5.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Eh. I think as far as the draft goes the notion that past performance is a strong indicator of future performance is tenuous, at best.

The Patriots were terrible at drafting TEs until they got Gronk and Hernandez. They were really bad at drafting linebackers until they got Mayo, Spikes, and Hightower. Some people would even tell you that they sucked at drafting RBs right up until they got Ridley and Vereen.

The general pattern is that, as soon as the Pats draft a good player at a position that they 'can't draft', the complaints will vanish as if they never existed, and the same crowd that was complaining will just move on to a new position. If the Pats draft a strong receiver in this draft, the complaints will shift to corner, and if it's followed by a good corner next year, the complainers will probably circle all the way back to the defensive line, ignoring the fact that the dynasty Pats dominated up front by drafting the best 3-man line in the business.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The Patriots were terrible at drafting TEs until they got Gronk and Hernandez. They were really bad at drafting linebackers until they got Mayo, Spikes, and Hightower. Some people would even tell you that they sucked at drafting RBs right up until they got Ridley and Vereen.

The general pattern is that, as soon as the Pats draft a good player at a position that they 'can't draft', the complaints will vanish as if they never existed, and the same crowd that was complaining will just move on to a new position. If the Pats draft a strong receiver in this draft, the complaints will shift to corner, and if it's followed by a good corner next year, the complainers will probably circle all the way back to the defensive line, ignoring the fact that the dynasty Pats dominated up front by drafting the best 3-man line in the business.

They haven't even put in the capital in the position in the draft to be considered that bad at it IMO. When 2nd round picks have a 50% bust rate and 3rd rounders even greater, drafting this in a total of 13 drafts just doesn't cut it.

0 1st round WRs
3 2nd round WRs (Branch, Johnson, Jackson)
2 3rd round WRs (Tate, Price)
0 4th round WRs
1 5th round WR (P.K Sam)
0 6th round WRs
2 7th round WRs (Edelman and Givens)

The record isn't even that bad. 3/8, considering we haven't spend one 1st rounder on a WR.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

For what it's worth, here's Reiss's take on it, from today's weekly chat.

But if it's economics relative to production as Reiss says, where are the Pats gonna get a WR who puts up 900 yards for that "low" WR contract money?

 

[DocHoliday]

It's time to draft WRs. Been fooling around far, far too long in that regard.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

It's time to draft WRs. Been fooling around far, far too long in that regard.

It's time to draft a DB or CB in the first round..not a WR

 

[DocHoliday]

It's time to draft a DB or CB in the first round..not a WR

In my admittedly casual draft opinion, for the pick you can get a far better WR than you can get a corner.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Get the CB in FA. Draft the WR.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

In my admittedly casual draft opinion, for the pick you can get a far better WR than you can get a corner.

much harder for a WR to learn learn a complex system compared to a CB

 

[Patsrock]

Hartline is good, but not that good.

Hartline got his 5 year deal worth 30M

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/07/dolphins-keep-brian-hartline/

 

[ctpatsfan77]

To my knowledge he needs at least 4 years of service not to go thru waivers.

If he's not offered a tender, there's no contract for teams to pick up. He would be a UFA until he signs, at which point he would revert to an RFA.

 

[Rob0729]

Hartline got his 5 year deal worth 30M

Dolphins keep Brian Hartline | ProFootballTalk

So much for him never getting $6 million a year. He might have gotten $6.5-7 million if he hit the open market.

People need to be prepared that if the Pats cut Lloyd and try to find his replacement in free agency that it is going to cost $5-7 million a year in contract unless the Pats shop in the bargain bin.

 

[borg]

So much for him never getting $6 million a year. He might have gotten $6.5-7 million if he hit the open market.

People need to be prepared that if the Pats cut Lloyd and try to find his replacement in free agency that it is going to cost $5-7 million a year in contract unless the Pats shop in the bargain bin.

I'm prepared

 

[patsinthesnow]

So much for him never getting $6 million a year. He might have gotten $6.5-7 million if he hit the open market.

People need to be prepared that if the Pats cut Lloyd and try to find his replacement in free agency that it is going to cost $5-7 million a year in contract unless the Pats shop in the bargain bin.

People need to be prepared that their are no Lloyd replacements at all, when you factor in Welker, Jennings, and Wallace will all be 8mil+ guys.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Wide Receivers

Brandon Gibson and David Nelson, very slim pickings.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm prepared

Considering the way the market is shaping up, the Pats could be paying $6 million a year for a downgrade from Lloyd.

At this point, the only reason it makes sense to cut Lloyd is if he truly is a problem off the field. You aren't likely to upgrade his on the field production in free agency as a #2 WR with the current market unless you gamble on an Austin Collie to get healthy by the start of the season or a David Nelson to get healthy and be a sleeper who is a star who was suppressed by a mediocre QB.

 

[Rob0729]

People need to be prepared that their are no Lloyd replacements at all, when you factor in Welker, Jennings, and Wallace will all be 8mil+ guys.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Wide Receivers

Brandon Gibson and David Nelson, very slim pickings.

I agree. The free agent WR sucks this year. If the Pats go that route to replace Lloyd, they will have to gamble on an injury problem like Collie or gamble a guy like Nelson can emerge under Brady. A guy like Collie can come with a relatively inexpensive one year, prove it deal; but a decent young guy might get an overvalued contract with the devoid of any decent WR talent on the market.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I agree. The free agent WR sucks this year. If the Pats go that route to replace Lloyd, they will have to gamble on an injury problem like Collie or gamble a guy like Nelson can emerge under Brady. A guy like Collie can come with a relatively inexpensive one year, prove it deal; but a decent young guy might get an overvalued contract with the devoid of any decent WR talent on the market.

It's nerve wracking there could be a chance we will be left with nothing with Welker and Lloyd leaving. Teams like the Falcons, Broncos, Colts, Bengals, Seahawks are salivating at the chance of getting Wes...