Pats work out Connor Barwin

[Mike the Brit]

Can you tell the Patchicklets were not on their best behavior tonight?

Personally, I feel overwhelming gratitude to American parents who respond with gentleness and patience when their offspring behave like loathsome toads. The strategy apparently works since, by the time they are eighteen, most Americans are exceptionally courteous, helpful and well socialized. But I have no idea whatsoever how their parents manage to restrain themselves in the period before.

 

[Seneschal2]

But I have no idea whatsoever how their parents manage to restrain themselves in the period before.

Patriots message board therapy. :disagreement: :nono:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Patriots message board therapy. :disagreement: :nono:

You go sit down and take a timeout. No, I'll tell you when you can get up.

 

[patchick]

All I can say is, guys, you're darned lucky you finally picked up the playing cards and magic markers you left strewn all over this nice draft forum.

 

[PATSNUTme]

OK everybody, I'm going to totally overstep my bounds as a moderator and declare a new rule for the Draft Forum: everyone has to act like they're over the age of 5. That means no pulling hair, no calling anybody a poopoohead, and no chanting "I know something you don't know and I'm no-ot tellllling!"

I have enough kids to deal with in the real world, I don't need more in cyberspace. Thank you.

So that means I can't post here?:confused2:

 

[OhExaulted1]

Didn't see this posted.

Scout.com: Patriots Continue To Scout Vrabel Clone

"Barwin's already had an official visit with the Buffalo Bills in March, but he has three visits planned for April aleady. He'll kick off his road trips with the Kansas City Chiefs on April 1st and 2nd, then he's off to Tennessee to meet with the Titans on the 5th and 6th. Then it's off to Jacksonville for a visit on the 12th and 13th followed by the Rams on the 15th and 16th.

The Atlanta Falcons and the Chiefs have also expressed interest in setting up a private workout, but a date hasn't been firmed-up as of yet. "

That's bad reporting with the Chiefs comment, but he also said this that struck me:

"But in an odd twist, Giants tight ends coach Mike Pope and Jacksonville assistant head coach and tight ends coach, Mike Tice, were also in Cincinnati to get a first-hand look at how Barwin would perform."

 

[Cramden]

It seems that the Barwin chatter around the league is picking up steam. A week ago there were mock drafts showing the Pats passing on him 4 times and Barwin being selected in the early 3rd. The more I read about him the less likely I think he'll be around at #34.

 

[patsfaninpa]

It seems that the Barwin chatter around the league is picking up steam. A week ago there were mock drafts showing the Pats passing on him with 4 times and Barwin being selected in the early 3rd. The more I read about him the less likely I think he'll be around at #34.

Pass rushers almost always go early. There's a little run on them and everyone seems to jump in. After the top guys gone like E.Brown and Orakpo. I think Maybin, Ayers,
English and Barwin will go quicker than most think. Houston traded up to 27 for J.Babin in 04.
Isn't Barwin a better prospect than he was?

 

[Blizzzard]

Didn't see this posted.

Scout.com: Patriots Continue To Scout Vrabel Clone

"Barwin's already had an official visit with the Buffalo Bills in March, but he has three visits planned for April aleady. He'll kick off his road trips with the Kansas City Chiefs on April 1st and 2nd, then he's off to Tennessee to meet with the Titans on the 5th and 6th. Then it's off to Jacksonville for a visit on the 12th and 13th followed by the Rams on the 15th and 16th.

The Atlanta Falcons and the Chiefs have also expressed interest in setting up a private workout, but a date hasn't been firmed-up as of yet. "

That's bad reporting with the Chiefs comment, but he also said this that struck me:

"But in an odd twist, Giants tight ends coach Mike Pope and Jacksonville assistant head coach and tight ends coach, Mike Tice, were also in Cincinnati to get a first-hand look at how Barwin would perform."

The Chefs must think he might drop to the 3rd. Obviously they aren't taking him at #34 and I am sure he is not going at #3

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The Chefs must think he might drop to the 3rd. Obviously they aren't taking him at #34 and I am sure he is not going at #3

Probably not, then again they might be able to trade back a bit if one of the teams in the Top 10 want someone at #3 badly enough...but I'm not confident Barwin won't go at #3 - if he's the next Vrabel, who better to mentor him? AND, he's a pretty decent TE, who's the best TE to mentor him?

 

[Seneschal2]

The Pats (BB & Pioli) have been scouting particular prospects for their entire college careers. Do we really think that Pioli is all of a sudden going to ignore potential Pats prospects because of his new employer? The two teams may have different needs, but I'm absolutely positive that Pioli will prefer the same type of qualities in his prospects that BB does.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm really hoping for a ILB, OLB, S in the first two rounds - OT after that would be perfect but if I get my top three I will be happy however.

I do like the depth at OLB so much more so if Maualuga is who they want I would be fine trading up for him and getting, say, English (or pick your OLB) at #34. If we don't get Maualuga (or if that's not their guy) then I like Sintim, I'd like to think we could get him at #34. Which is where it gets tough with so many OLB it would be real tempting to get Britton or Beatty at #23 then hope for Sintim at #34 and still get an OLB in the mid second with a Safety with our natural pick.

 

[PatsFan37]

First, let me say that I'm not a draftnik and I don't watch college ball. The closest I get is to read this forum, which I find fun and amusing. Anyway, here goes ....

It seems that the Barwin chatter around the league is picking up steam. A week ago there were mock drafts showing the Pats passing on him 4 times and Barwin being selected in the early 3rd. The more I read about him the less likely I think he'll be around at #34.

I struggle with this notion of stock rising and falling. It seems to me that teams make up their draft boards based on film, scouting and interviews, most of which are invisible to the likes of us. Once the combine has passed, why would the general fit of the player to the team change more than a few spots on the team's board, unless the player had a bad interview (which we wouldn't know anyway).

Short of an arrest it's hard to imagine a player rocketing up and down. Is it Barwin's stock that's rising? Or are media expectations rising to the level of those invisible team draft boards. Or is the rise and fall strictly a fan phenomenon.

...then again they [the Chiefs] might be able to trade back a bit if one of the teams in the Top 10 want someone at #3 badly enough...but I'm not confident Barwin won't go at #3 - if he's the next Vrabel, who better to mentor him? AND, he's a pretty decent TE, who's the best TE to mentor him?

Wow, third overall! Stratospheric. Does this make Barwin the first Nuclear Binkie of the modern age? Is Pioli going to drop the Bomb on April 25th?

 

[sg14]

Wouldn't you think all this rising/ falling stuff is what the media is hearing?? All the GMs have differing opinions, the only way to make an accurate prediction is by picking up little bits of info here and there,,

I think it's totally related to "leaked info", not that a player is actually being rated different.

Once the combine has passed, why would the general fit of the player to the team change more than a few spots on the team's board, unless the player had a bad interview (which we wouldn't know anyway).

Short of an arrest it's hard to imagine a player rocketing up and down. Is it Barwin's stock that's rising? Or are media expectations rising to the level of those invisible team draft boards. Or is the rise and fall strictly a fan phenomenon.Wow, third overall! Stratospheric. Does this make Barwin the first Nuclear Binkie of the modern age? Is Pioli going to drop the Bomb on April 25th?

 

[patsfaninpa]

First, let me say that I'm not a draftnik and I don't watch college ball. The closest I get is to read this forum, which I find fun and amusing. Anyway, here goes ....I struggle with this notion of stock rising and falling. It seems to me that teams make up their draft boards based on film, scouting and interviews, most of which are invisible to the likes of us. Once the combine has passed, why would the general fit of the player to the team change more than a few spots on the team's board, unless the player had a bad interview (which we wouldn't know anyway).


When would you like the evaluation process to stop? After they played their last game?
Many players were unheralded going into their senior season and drastically improved their pre-season grade. They are bigger, stronger and faster. You have to look at them now.
Not, what they were previously. It's an evolving process. Players don't standstill in time.
Some work harder than others. That's why grades change.


Short of an arrest it's hard to imagine a player rocketing up and down. Is it Barwin's stock that's rising? Or are media expectations rising to the level of those invisible team draft boards. Or is the rise and fall strictly a fan phenomenon.Wow, third overall! Stratospheric. Does this make Barwin the first Nuclear Binkie of the modern age? Is Pioli going to drop the Bomb on April 25th?

I believe the reference to Barwin going 3rd was in jest. But, KC has an early pick in round 3. Do you think it's possible to move from 67 to say 50 if he goes in the 2nd round? Hmmm. That sounds plausible to me. You have a lot of background work on players to do also. Let's say a kid looks good on film. Do you draft him? Well, you want to know his background. Is he grounded off of the field? Any past legal trouble? Interview coaches and players he's had contact with to see what kind of teammate he will be. Not quite as simple a process as you think. Player A All-American at USC. Player B relatively unknown at smaller school emerges his senior season. Player A not automatically better than Player B.
Mike Williams, Fred Davis, Keith Rivers, Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart prove that a players evolution doesn't stop when their college season ends. A lot of work to be done to play in the league.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I struggle with this notion of stock rising and falling.

It happens, scouts are human too.

Is it Barwin's stock that's rising?

Yes. This is a classic case for why a stock would rise.
-- Prior to Spring 2008, Barwin was on scout's notes as a TE, then his profile changed, he was now a DE. 90+% of the scouting on him had to be re-done, and the data wasn't available until the end of the season.
-- So now we have one season's worth of data on film for DE and three seasons film for TE, and four seasons film on Special Teams...and you might be considering projecting him to a new position at OLB (and it's not just 3-4 teams, he's an excellent SLB prospect for a 4-3), which means you also have to focus on his athleticism, adaptability, and intelligence to assess his potential for that change.
-- Next we get to testing, he was expected to test well, but was he expected to test as well as he did? Not from the stories I've read or the comments of punditry covering the draft.
-- Then you also have a kid who is marketing himself well: think about this, he did full drills for a DE, a LB, and a TE/WR, then he does full drills for OL to demonstrate his potential as a blocker. Media observers are talking about Barwin doing multiple drills while his team mates are all gasping for air after doing one set of drills...work ethic √, conditioning √, prepared √, versatile √, √√√√√√

Yep, we're reading about it in the media, and he's getting the hype, but put your Human Resources cap on and view this as a job interview for a multi-million dollar salaried position you need to fill:
- Solid resume, though some of it is for doing a different job than the one you ae looking to fill (film, production)
- Good job fair interview (Senior Bowl)
- Another job far with a surprisingly good follow-up interview (Combine)
- Yet another job fair interview where he does even better and clearly shows that he wants to work for your company (Pro Day)
- You're skeptical because there is a lot of hype building around this kid, but everytime you meet with him in person he wows you...

Late riser? You bet...and it really sucks.

 

[Mark Morse]

I have tried to put a good spin on having two developmental players, but I am not sure that it is the most reasonable use of resources.

I agree with your assessment of having two developmental players at the backup position. Woods is the starter until someone replaces him. I'm not sold on Crable and his weak lower body (skinny legs).
I like Barwin's versatility, but he put up those sack numbers for one season only. He had a tendancy to disappear against better teams. Taking Barwin will depend upon who they take first.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I believe the reference to Barwin going 3rd was in jest.

No, I'm on record saying he could legitimately receive Top 10 consideration shortly after the Combine - after his Pro Day, why wouldn't a Top 5 team at least get their due diligence done on him?

 

[PatsFan37]

When would you like the evaluation process to stop? After they played their last game?

Silly me for thinking the actual games count for so much (which is not a knock on Barwin -- according to his boosters, he played exceptionally well -- I plead ignorance on that).

The evaluation doesn't stop, of course not, but the team's evaluation of 'fit' is based on so many factors (including the combine) that by now there's little movement in team's draft boards based on info we find out.

So yes, I do think stock rising and falling is largely a media creation. That it's partly hype and partly the media and fans coming to realize what the coaches already knew. And yes, there is the element of deception as well, though how much of that is real, I have no idea.

 

[PatsFan37]

Yes. This is a classic case for why a stock would rise.
-- Prior to Spring 2008, Barwin was on scout's notes as a TE, then his profile changed, he was now a DE. 90+% of the scouting on him had to be re-done, and the data wasn't available until the end of the season.
-- So now we have one season's worth of data on film for DE and three seasons film for TE, and four seasons film on Special Teams...and you might be considering projecting him to a new position at OLB (and it's not just 3-4 teams, he's an excellent SLB prospect for a 4-3), which means you also have to focus on his athleticism, adaptability, and intelligence to assess his potential for that change.
-- Next we get to testing, he was expected to test well, but was he expected to test as well as he did? Not from the stories I've read or the comments of punditry covering the draft.
-- Then you also have a kid who is marketing himself well: think about this, he did full drills for a DE, a LB, and a TE/WR, then he does full drills for OL to demonstrate his potential as a blocker. Media observers are talking about Barwin doing multiple drills while his team mates are all gasping for air after doing one set of drills...work ethic √, conditioning √, prepared √, versatile √, √√√√√√

So what you're saying is his Pro Day raised his stock because the new and real information is his commitment and work ethic, which might not have been in evidence before.

I just think that the mania here on this board tells me it might have been in evidence before that. And that maybe the folks here are quicker than some of the dullards in the media. (But that the coaches are already there).