Pats work out Connor Barwin

[Leave No Doubt]

Ummm . . . let's not have any more defensive players @ FB. . . .

And, BTW, this is the guy who just ran a 4.5 40, and has a 40" vertical. . . .

Now imagine what he could do with two or three years of coaching from Belichick. . . .

Mercy

Reading about some of the other players we've worked out and other draftees who may also be available for the positions we seem to need, how can we lose in this draft? And if we get Connor Binky-win plus one or even 2 of the others you guys mention? Holy * :rocker:

I like CB as a TE for us; Red Zone TE is his position of strength (he says) and
that's something we lacked. Thinking back to Kyle Brady and what hopes we had for him- huge guy with blocking skills,etc- and it just didn't work out. It would have been awesome if it did tho. CB would be a very nice addition as TE.

In time his OLB skills would be pretty nice too, but BB runs a complex defense, one that usually takes time to grasp and execute and probably a tough one to step into and contribute to right away.

It's good to see this thread back on top

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Oh,
what do you mean the more public the Pats are? I could understand if your talking about the scouts. But if your talking about about the Carucci article that was true because I have a good idea who hinted the Pats interest in Rey and what Vic actually did was asked somebody a series of questions that went something like this:
Vic: I noticed you guys interviewed Rey at the Senior Bowl and you guys have been at multiple USC games over the years is their a good interest there?
Source: Yes
Vic: Do you guys feel the OLBer in this draft class is deeper than MLB?
Source: Yes
Vic: Do you think the Pats could use a ILBer next to Mayo to replace Tedy Bruschi?
Source: Yes
Vic: You guys seem to be looking at players like Peppers or Jason Taylor, If you get one of these guys and a Rey Maualuga was available to draft would he be an ideal type ILBer that would fit next to Mayo.
Source: Possibly, yeah he could fit.

Then Vic looks at the roster and writes the article. The Pats filled the Corner Position and are rumored to be looking at the OLBer. So with ILB being thin and ammo to trade up an grab an elite ILB he puts 2 and 2 together.

What I find interesting is how much the fans on here feel the Pats are still the same Pats (organizational wise) that they were in the early 2000's. The Pats are not as stealth anymore. Partly because the turn-over in the organization on the scouting levels and coaches changing teams. Also, the clever way these insiders now ask question to the others coaches' and assume the simularities. The Pats will let you know the plan but you have to know what to look for.
The problem with the fans on this board is they can't let go of the past and don't think out of the box. Also, the fans tend to latch onto certain players who they feel are best for this team and not whom really is best for this team. The Patriots are always changing things. BB is a master at staying ahead of the curve and thinking out of the box and being creative on changing the schemes. Some things are very suttle.

Enjoy the draft this year will be interesting to say the least if they do what I'm hearing.

PT55

Okay, you're hearing things, I guess as long as it's not your dog telling you to kill people it's only a mild concern.

Like others who have attempted to critique Barwin, you begin with the premise that those of us who consider him a good fit for NE do so only because we saw his Combine numbers and went all John Madden on his potential. Hardly your finest detective work sir, you're tone suggests you aren't really interested and are only here to continue the hype surrounding Maualuga, but on the chance you might be a tad curious, try the search function above using 'advanced search' and plugging in the names of various Barwinite posters...and look for mentions of Barwin 'older' than 3 monthes - you know, back before he was projected as a Day One pick.

Now, as a change of pace, and if you can get the voices in your head to take a break; perhaps you'd be kind enough to elaborate on what Maualuga does on the football field that makes him such a good fit for NE? I especially would like to read your thoughts on how NE uses an ILB in it's defense and how Maualuga "consistently" demonstrates that talent in a game. Thank you kindly.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Actually, we disagree.

First, there's a big difference between taking a DE/LB conversion project at #6 vs. #23 in terms of financial commitment and cap hit. Second, Barwin shows much better agility and ability to play in space than Gholston ever did. There's nothing wrong with a DE/OLB conversion in the 1st round (see Terrell Suggs, DeMarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman), but the higher the pick the more certain you have to be that the player has what it takes. Barwin's TE background in particular make him particularly well suited to playing in space.

Finally, I disagree strongly about Barwin's value as a potential 1st round pick. If he does go in the 1st it won't be as a TE or a 4-3 DE, it will be as a 3-4 OLB. That's clearly where his future is.

You may or may not be right about Maualuga being a better player. But every year there are lesser-known players who turn out to be better prospects than the college stars, and often end up to be better pros. Derrick Johnson was the media darling at LB in 2005, not Merriman or Ware. Ware was a riser after his combine workout. Mayo last year clearly rose after the combine as well. So it's not ridiculous to suppose that Barwin could end up being a better pro than Maualuga. He's clearly more physically gifted, and has better intangibles (intelligence, character, motor, versatility, etc.). The biggest difference right now is positional experience.

Mayo,
I understand your liking to Barwin here's a great kid and interesting prospect. But you are assuming some things here. 1st, He's no Suggs, Ware, Merriman. He's just not at that level, which is fine. 2nd, In your mind he's best suited to be an 3-4 OLB but I guarantee you he disagrees with you and your evaluation of his skills and abilities. I say in your mind because you don't know what other teams are projecting him as. The Patriots have made it clear what they believe he is better suited for in their eyes but most Barwin fans just don't want to see it. Does it mean they couldn't change him around? Of course not, but when they change a players position they draft that player with that position in mind much like Bruschi not place him on the board as one position then draft him and all the sudden switch the first day of camp. At least if they invest a 1st day pick on that player. On their board they will have Barwin as they project him and rate him as such.

Mayo was a known player and was rising well before the combine according to scouts. The media pundits finally caught on sometime after the combine and started talking about him. But the Pats and other teams had him highly graded before the combine. In fact, some scouts predicted he would become very popular after the combine especially when Rey went back to school.

I think the obsession with Conner is because people are looking for the next Mike Vrabel. That doesn't mean the Patriots are looking for the next Mike Vrabel in terms of a jack of all trades and master of none player. They would love an explosive edge rusher and decent cover man.

Well see who picks Conner and I hope he becomes a great player in this league but unless something drastically changes he won't be making a home at Gillette Stadium. What hurts him is how the Patriots project him compared to other OLB's in this draft and the vision they have for that player.

I remember the same thing happening last year with a player named Chris Long. Who many thought would be a legit 3-4 OLBer. Which he wasn't and got drafted by a 4-3 team to play DE. Many on here agrued with me about him when I told them the Dolphins interest was to bait Jake Long to sign the deal that was on the table (which he did).

He's not their favorite OLB prospect. That's all I'm going to say.
PT55

 

[mayoclinic]

Oh,
what do you mean the more public the Pats are? I could understand if your talking about the scouts. But if your talking about about the Carucci article that was true because I have a good idea who hinted the Pats interest in Rey and what Vic actually did was asked somebody a series of questions that went something like this:
Vic: I noticed you guys interviewed Rey at the Senior Bowl and you guys have been at multiple USC games over the years is their a good interest there?
Source: Yes
Vic: Do you guys feel the OLBer in this draft class is deeper than MLB?
Source: Yes
Vic: Do you think the Pats could use a ILBer next to Mayo to replace Tedy Bruschi?
Source: Yes
Vic: You guys seem to be looking at players like Peppers or Jason Taylor, If you get one of these guys and a Rey Maualuga was available to draft would he be an ideal type ILBer that would fit next to Mayo.
Source: Possibly, yeah he could fit.

Then Vic looks at the roster and writes the article. The Pats filled the Corner Position and are rumored to be looking at the OLBer. So with ILB being thin and ammo to trade up an grab an elite ILB he puts 2 and 2 together.

What I find interesting is how much the fans on here feel the Pats are still the same Pats (organizational wise) that they were in the early 2000's. The Pats are not as stealth anymore. Partly because the turn-over in the organization on the scouting levels and coaches changing teams. Also, the clever way these insiders now ask question to the others coaches' and assume the simularities. The Pats will let you know the plan but you have to know what to look for.
The problem with the fans on this board is they can't let go of the past and don't think out of the box. Also, the fans tend to latch onto certain players who they feel are best for this team and not whom really is best for this team. The Patriots are always changing things. BB is a master at staying ahead of the curve and thinking out of the box and being creative on changing the schemes. Some things are very suttle.

Enjoy the draft this year will be interesting to say the least if they do what I'm hearing.

PT55

Obviously you have "inside" information, though it seems that it is mostly inside your own head. I personally wouldn't speculate on what a hypothetical conversation went like. I would suggest that most of the time there is considerable media speculation that the Pats are in love with a player, it bears taking with at least a grain of salt.

Consider Vernon Gholston last year. There were reports from the press that Mike Vrabel had been working out personally with Gholston and loved him. Writers tend to jump at what BB is "likely" to do with no evidence whatsoever. They cite things like "bloodlines" or "coaching tree" like it is the gospel truth.

You say that "the Pats will let you know the plan but you have to know what to look for." Again, perhaps you have a crystal ball, but I highly doubt it. In the general sense, what you say is true. As Belichick said last year, anyone who had followed what he said for years could deduce that he wanted to get younger and faster on defense. It doesn't take a genius to see that we will continue that trend this year, and that there are holes at OLB and ILB. So the Pats wouldn't be doing due diligence if they ignored a prospect like Maualuga, and they are nothing if not diligent. But to suggest that they would public announce interest in a prospect 5 weeks before the draft is ludicrous, and my suspicion remains that if any interest came from them then it is a smokescreen. Again, you only have to look at the Gholston situation last year to see that the Pats clearly still use smokescreens to mask their true intentions from other teams, despite your claims that they have evolved to a kinder, gentler, more open style.

But again, maybe it's all just too "suttle" for me.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Okay, you're hearing things, I guess as long as it's not your dog telling you to kill people it's only a mild concern.

Like others who have attempted to critique Barwin, you begin with the premise that those of us who consider him a good fit for NE do so only because we saw his Combine numbers and went all John Madden on his potential. Hardly your finest detective work sir, you're tone suggests you aren't really interested and are only here to continue the hype surrounding Maualuga, but on the chance you might be a tad curious, try the search function above using 'advanced search' and plugging in the names of various Barwinite posters...and look for mentions of Barwin 'older' than 3 monthes - you know, back before he was projected as a Day One pick.

Now, as a change of pace, and if you can get the voices in your head to take a break; perhaps you'd be kind enough to elaborate on what Maualuga does on the football field that makes him such a good fit for NE? I especially would like to read your thoughts on how NE uses an ILB in it's defense and how Maualuga "consistently" demonstrates that talent in a game. Thank you kindly.

Well hello Mr. Box,

Glad to here from you again. I remember last year when I warned you about the Pats interest in a Virginia DE you where so in love with.
Look, You believe what you want to but just like last year you argued with me then and here we are again.
I challenged anybody to call me out as a fraud last year and got no response.
All you had to do is take the date and times when I posted the event with the date and time the signing or rumor broke in the media and you would see I was at least 2-3 days ahead of the curve.

I'm not posted my information this year because I don't care to be an internet sensation for all that is Patriot.
So I will just say this: Don't be upset come draft day.

Oh, I already said which SC LBer I believe will be on the roster but things are taking a turn right now. And if the Patriots don't take 1 SC player I don't care either way because it's not about "MY" feelings, it's about what's best for the New England Patriots Organization and if a Rey, Clay, Brian etc. just happens to be available and acquired then great.

PT55

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo,
I understand your liking to Barwin here's a great kid and interesting prospect. But you are assuming some things here. 1st, He's no Suggs, Ware, Merriman. He's just not at that level, which is fine. 2nd, In your mind he's best suited to be an 3-4 OLB but I guarantee you he disagrees with you and your evaluation of his skills and abilities. I say in your mind because you don't know what other teams are projecting him as. The Patriots have made it clear what they believe he is better suited for in their eyes but most Barwin fans just don't want to see it. Does it mean they couldn't change him around? Of course not, but when they change a players position they draft that player with that position in mind much like Bruschi not place him on the board as one position then draft him and all the sudden switch the first day of camp. At least if they invest a 1st day pick on that player. On their board they will have Barwin as they project him and rate him as such.

Mayo was a known player and was rising well before the combine according to scouts. The media pundits finally caught on sometime after the combine and started talking about him. But the Pats and other teams had him highly graded before the combine. In fact, some scouts predicted he would become very popular after the combine especially when Rey went back to school.

I think the obsession with Conner is because people are looking for the next Mike Vrabel. That doesn't mean the Patriots are looking for the next Mike Vrabel in terms of a jack of all trades and master of none player. They would love an explosive edge rusher and decent cover man.

Well see who picks Conner and I hope he becomes a great player in this league but unless something drastically changes he won't be making a home at Gillette Stadium. What hurts him is how the Patriots project him compared to other OLB's in this draft and the vision they have for that player.

I remember the same thing happening last year with a player named Chris Long. Who many thought would be a legit 3-4 OLBer. Which he wasn't and got drafted by a 4-3 team to play DE. Many on here agrued with me about him when I told them the Dolphins interest was to bait Jake Long to sign the deal that was on the table (which he did).

He's not their favorite OLB prospect. That's all I'm going to say.
PT55

1. Would you please stop referring to Barwin as "Conner"? I doubt you're on a 1st name basis with him, and if you are, it's the wrong first name, as his first name is "Connor". Dan Conner was a 3rd round MLB in last year's draft.

2. I never likened Barwin to Suggs/Ware/Merriman (though from a size/speed/agility standpoint he comes closer to Ware than any propect in the past 4 years). You mentioned Vernon Gholston, who was taken at #6 by the Jets as a possible Suggs/Ware/Merriman kind of guy, and I pointed out that the higher you take one of those prospects (Gholston at 6, Suggs at 10, Ware at 11, Merriman at 12) the surer you had to be because of the financial commitment. You mention Chris Long, but he was always a top 5 pick, and again there's a huge financial outlay to pay top 5 money to a conversion project. It was much safer to take him at 4-3 end where he was a proven commodity. Barwin at 23 would not have the same level of pressure, financial commitment or expectation on him.

3. Some teams may be looking at Barwin as a 4-3 DE or even as a TE, but he has publicly stated that the strongest interest in him had been expressed by teams looking at him as a 3-4 OLB. That is not a secret. Of course, a 4-3 team may take him before #23 at DE, but right now Everett Brown and Robert Ayers look to be more likely to go at 4-3 DE before Barwin.

4. Jerod Mayo was rated a 2nd round prospect at MLB going into the combine. He showed up at 242 lbs. (vs. 230 that he had been listed at) and ran a 4.53 40, and immediately started a steady climb up draft boards. He was still listed as a mid-to-late first round prospect until the week before the draft, when he made a steep climb up to the Pats at #10.

I don't know if the Pats will take Barwin at #23. They could take Maualuga. Unlike you, I'm just guessing. But Barwin has clearly cracked the 1st round ceiling as a prospect at this point. He could go early 2nd, but it is unlikely that a team will pass on someone with his athleticism, versatility, and potential. He reportedly looked smooth in position drills at his pro day at TE, DE and LB, as well as continuing to post unreal numbers. He was extremely productive last year for a guy learning a new position. He will have ST and situational value no matter what. And several teams are reportedly very interested in him. So my guess is that he won't last that long.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well hello Mr. Box,

Glad to here from you again. I remember last year when I warned you about the Pats interest in a Virginia DE you where so in love with.
Look, You believe what you want to but just like last year you argued with me then and here we are again.
I challenged anybody to call me out as a fraud last year and got no response.
All you had to do is take the date and times when I posted the event with the date and time the signing or rumor broke in the media and you would see I was at least 2-3 days ahead of the curve.

I'm not posted my information this year because I don't care to be an internet sensation for all that is Patriot.
So I will just say this: Don't be upset come draft day.

Oh, I already said which SC LBer I believe will be on the roster but things are taking a turn right now. And if the Patriots don't take 1 SC player I don't care either way because it's not about "MY" feelings, it's about what's best for the New England Patriots Organization and if a Rey, Clay, Brian etc. just happens to be available and acquired then great.

PT55

Oh deary me, so impatient - research takes time old Trojan.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/81123-way-i-hear.html - An interesting preview, some of it is certanly unknowable, but overall, I think the post-draft thread critiquing your perspective justifiably labels your effort to be no better then anyone else's here.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ensen-c-long-2-parcells-board.html#post870536 - "I personnally like Gholston, Long, Rivers, Groves ahead of him but on a trade down I could see Mayo as a target." Broad minded of you to say the least, but by that point in the process you were not alone in viewing Mayo as a likely prospect and we at least know that BB rated him ahead of Rivers and Groves.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...8-michael-holley-convinced-patriots-want.html - "Mayo is a possibility but he's not my sources "preferred" option." Poor Michael Holley, out on a limb and you sawed him off...still, we can make a reasonable guess that your source wasn't Belichick himself.

Neighbor, I don't lay claim to "inside" information. I certainly can't boast that I "know" NE liked Gholston more than Chris Long or that Miami liked him more than Chris Long. Sucks to be me, I'm just a fan with a keyboard trying to analyze draft prospects and project them as fits for NE within the limits of my ignorance on all things football. I would however note that if you are going to ask me to check your track record, AND you are going to insist that track record supports your claims of insider knowledge and prescience regarding NE draft selections - you might want to establish a different track record. Just saying.

 

[Cramden]

On Sirius this afternoon, Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan held a mock draft. They alternated picks and Ryan had Barwin, who he loved going to the Pats at #23. Maualuga went #20 to the Lions, Mathews #24 to Atlanta. English and Laurinaitis went undrafted.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

On Sirius this afternoon, Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan held a mock draft. They alternated picks and Ryan had Barwin, who he loved going to the Pats at #23. Maualuga went #20 to the Lions, Mathews #24 to Atlanta. English and Laurinaitis went undrafted.

Mr. Ryan is an intelligent man.

 

[StyLeZ X]

1. Would you please stop referring to Barwin as "Conner"? I doubt you're on a 1st name basis with him, and if you are, it's the wrong first name, as his first name is "Connor". Dan Conner was a 3rd round MLB in last year's draft.

2. I never likened Barwin to Suggs/Ware/Merriman (though from a size/speed/agility standpoint he comes closer to Ware than any propect in the past 4 years). You mentioned Vernon Gholston, who was taken at #6 by the Jets as a possible Suggs/Ware/Merriman kind of guy, and I pointed out that the higher you take one of those prospects (Gholston at 6, Suggs at 10, Ware at 11, Merriman at 12) the surer you had to be because of the financial commitment. You mention Chris Long, but he was always a top 5 pick, and again there's a huge financial outlay to pay top 5 money to a conversion project. It was much safer to take him at 4-3 end where he was a proven commodity. Barwin at 23 would not have the same level of pressure, financial commitment or expectation on him.

3. Some teams may be looking at Barwin as a 4-3 DE or even as a TE, but he has publicly stated that the strongest interest in him had been expressed by teams looking at him as a 3-4 OLB. That is not a secret. Of course, a 4-3 team may take him before #23 at DE, but right now Everett Brown and Robert Ayers look to be more likely to go at 4-3 DE before Barwin.

4. Jerod Mayo was rated a 2nd round prospect at MLB going into the combine. He showed up at 242 lbs. (vs. 230 that he had been listed at) and ran a 4.53 40, and immediately started a steady climb up draft boards. He was still listed as a mid-to-late first round prospect until the week before the draft, when he made a steep climb up to the Pats at #10.

I don't know if the Pats will take Barwin at #23. They could take Maualuga. Unlike you, I'm just guessing. But Barwin has clearly cracked the 1st round ceiling as a prospect at this point. He could go early 2nd, but it is unlikely that a team will pass on someone with his athleticism, versatility, and potential. He reportedly looked smooth in position drills at his pro day at TE, DE and LB, as well as continuing to post unreal numbers. He was extremely productive last year for a guy learning a new position. He will have ST and situational value no matter what. And several teams are reportedly very interested in him. So my guess is that he won't last that long.

are you seriously nitpicking him calling Barwin by his first name? lmao

 

[Cramden]

Mr. Ryan is an intelligent man.

Kirwan too. They both said he's a faster Mike Vrabel. Talked about how he's a superior athlete who played 12-15 minutes a game for a D-1 basketball program, ran a 4.4 40 at his pro day and had a 40 1/2" vertical. Had a very good Senior Bowl and will be in packages on both sides of the ball for NE.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The funny thing is I like both of Barwin and Maualuga. I'd love to see 23 and 34 be these two guys.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

2nd, In your mind he's best suited to be an 3-4 OLB but I guarantee you he disagrees with you and your evaluation of his skills and abilities.

Just a couple of quotes from Barwin himself:

"What do you think of going from a hand-down, 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB?

Barwin: I’m very excited to play a 3-4 OLB because I would be able to not only use what made me successful at DE but what made me successful as TE and that was the ability to play in space."

SC: Does the thought of playing OLB in a 3-4 excite you and can you pick up the nuances of it quickly with a pro team?
Barwin: “The idea of playing OLB gets me really excited because I think it will completely take advantage of my athleticism and ability to make plays in space while at the same time I can still rush the quarterback, which I discovered a passion for during this last season.”

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

The funny thing is I like both of Barwin and Maualuga. I'd love to see 23 and 34 be these two guys.

I can see Barwin at 34, but Maualuga will probably be gone before pick 20!! If hes down at 23 dont think just DO IT!!

 

[mayoclinic]

Just a couple of quotes from Barwin himself:

"What do you think of going from a hand-down, 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB?

Barwin: I’m very excited to play a 3-4 OLB because I would be able to not only use what made me successful at DE but what made me successful as TE and that was the ability to play in space."

SC: Does the thought of playing OLB in a 3-4 excite you and can you pick up the nuances of it quickly with a pro team?
Barwin: “The idea of playing OLB gets me really excited because I think it will completely take advantage of my athleticism and ability to make plays in space while at the same time I can still rush the quarterback, which I discovered a passion for during this last season.”

Thanks for the supporting quotes.

I think Barwin could be an excellent 4-3 DE if he bulked up to around 265, but that wouldn't take advantage of his best attributes, which are his incredible athleticism and comfort playing in space. He seems born to play 3-4 OLB. JMHO - unlike some, I won't make "guarantees".

 

[patchick]

OK everybody, I'm going to totally overstep my bounds as a moderator and declare a new rule for the Draft Forum: everyone has to act like they're over the age of 5. That means no pulling hair, no calling anybody a poopoohead, and no chanting "I know something you don't know and I'm no-ot tellllling!"

I have enough kids to deal with in the real world, I don't need more in cyberspace. Thank you.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK everybody, I'm going to totally overstep my bounds as a moderator and declare a new rule for the Draft Forum: everyone has to act like they're over the age of 5. That means no pulling hair, no calling anybody a poopoohead, and no chanting "I know something you don't know and I'm no-ot tellllling!"

I have enough kids to deal with in the real world, I don't need more in cyberspace. Thank you.

I sowwy.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I think we can make it to the age of 7 by midnight. ;}

 

[patchick]

I sowwy.

Can you tell the Patchicklets were not on their best behavior tonight?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Can you tell the Patchicklets were not on their best behavior tonight?

Mother's influence comes with a price. :singing: