PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Pats "TOP" priorty


Status
Not open for further replies.
I read all the posts.

If we think that there is an all-pro pass-rusher there when we pick (in whatever pick), we will draft him. No one disagrees.

Another example is a shutdown corner. Another is a stud 3-4 nose tackle. Of course, we would take any of these if they are available.

The same is true for all-pro at almost any postion, certainly including ALL the defensive positions.

So, in the end, it is not a matter of disagreeing with you. It is a matter of judging whether such a player (in the eyes of Belichick and Pioli) will be there when we pick. My guess is not.




this message is to mgteich

you totally misinterpreted what i said, in fact, you responded to my message in all likelihood without even taking 2 seconds to comprehend it.

DaBruinz made a point that we dont target pass rushers...my point, and i am right (i usually am) is that if there is one available we will take one. especially if a top notch rush guy is available. I am right, you did not read my post. if you did you would understand that i am right....
 
Why are you attacking someone based on his opinion. He can't disagree with you. Grow up.

I didn't realize that I wasn't entitled to my own opinion or that I wasn't entitled to voice it. Thanks for bringing nothing to the conversation.
 
so if a DeMarcus Ware type player was available in the draft you dont think we would get him because we havent had a pass rushing stud in the past? are you crazy? we actually picked up adalius and colvin hoping they would be that type of player...so what are you talking aabout?

I can guarantee you that I am not crazy and that my list of priorities are based much on how this team has been run than anything you've provided. Also, the Patriots have passed on "sack specialists" in the past because they haven't fit the system. Its because of the type of 3-4 2 GAP defense the Patriots play. If you go and look through the drafts, the Patriots haven't bothered with them. And they've been there.

As for Colvin and Thomas, you don't know what you are talking about. Neither was a PURE sack artist. And, since you brought up Thomas, how long did it take him to earn a starting position? Don't know? How about 3 years. Colvin was very similar. So, unless the Pats go with a veteran, no one they draft is going to come in right away and make an impact at the OLB position.
 
Last edited:
DaBruinz...i really think you believe you are apart of a 3 headed monster involving you pioli and bellicheck

Nope. Sorry. I don't believe that in the least. However, I do believe that its MY OPINION and that I've based it on my perception of how they've run this team during the last 9 years.

There are people who I have no respect for (Mr. Bigglesworth) and some I do. This is because over time, I 've come to realize that some people just talk out their arse (Biggles) and others have done their research and can provide sensible and well founded arguments to support their ideas.
 
this message is to mgteich

you totally misinterpreted what i said, in fact, you responded to my message in all likelihood without even taking 2 seconds to comprehend it.

DaBruinz made a point that we dont target pass rushers...my point, and i am right (i usually am) is that if there is one available we will take one. especially if a top notch rush guy is available. I am right, you did not read my post. if you did you would understand that i am right....

First of all, I'd appreciate it if you STFU in regards to what I said unless you are quoting me directly.

Secondly, I did NOT say that the Patriots don't target pass rushers. I said that they haven't ever had a SACK SPECIALIST on the team. A sack specialist is someone who ONLY knows how to rush the Passer. Someone who can't set the edge against the run and someone who can't drop back into coverage. And they haven't under Belichick and Pioli. They've not drafted a "sack specialist" nor that they signed a "sack specialist"

Third, neither Colvin nor Thomas were considered sack specialists by ANYONE. Colvin was a good pass rusher and could drop back into coverage with Chicago and he was mediocre at best against the run. Adalius Thomas was considered a great 3-4 LB because he could rush the Passer from any position, he could cover people, and he knows how to set the edge against the run.

The Patriots have yet to add a "sack specialst" via the draft. They've not drafted a single one the entire time during BB and Pioli's tenure.
 
first question. is migtech the same person as dabruinz? if so that would make 15,000 posts. INCREDIBLE. ill give you props to that, although i dont know how that could happen.....wow
 
2nd...i think it is amazing how i read this website so often and have come across a lot of people who actually bring a lot to this site. while i think you (dabruinz) have a good idea of what goes on, i find it insulting that you basically "quote" everybody and their opinion and attempt to rip into them. if it is a ridiculous statement, i understand, but you try and rip into EVERYONE that comes into here. that is pathetic. jmo, but probably everyone elses. you need to like relax. you are not belichek. while you might want to be, which is fine, and you may think you know what he is doing, you dont. you can speculate based on the past...too fine. but stop copying every single persons quotes in here
 
3rd. . . . I agree Adalius Thomas is a versatile player. his skill set is perfect for our system, and everyone elses in this league. you make a good point this is why he was brought in. but at the end of the day, if a 3-4 (or any pro system) is going to work you need to put pressure on the QB. we brought both colvin and thomas to do just that.

i believe, and i think most people would, that if you are able to put pressure on the qB you can get by with a secondary that may not be as good as others. the giants, while they play a 4-3, were, and are, able to put pressure on the QB and their CBs, while good, look very good. whether in a 4-3 or 3-4, if you put pressure on the QB you can get by with better QBs.

we need an OLB to put pressure on the QB. me and you have argued about vrabel in the past. i think we need another olb with the ability to get to the qb.

this is why i think OLB is something we should address. i would love suggs, but i dont know if thats going to be possible. we may have to do it in the draft in the 1st or 2nd round. i do think that we can go OL, DL, LB, or DB in the draft and be fine. i just would hope a top LB would be available when we are up


AND STOP QUOTING EVERYONE. its annoying
 
first question. is migtech the same person as dabruinz? if so that would make 15,000 posts. INCREDIBLE. ill give you props to that, although i dont know how that could happen.....wow

Its typical of a loser to have to resort to talking about people's message counts. It doesn't matter what time span those counts cover.

Also, MG and I are not the same person.

BTW, there are people on this board with much more than 15,000 posts.
 
I'm sorry but if you are prioritizing Long Snapper of all positions as a top 5 need, you are off your rocker. Paxton is not going to cost a fortune to resign and he is a NICHE player on special teams. I'd place punter ahead of long snapper as a need, and punter ain't in my top 5, no way no how. Who is out there waiting to snatch Paxton away from us? the Colts? Being a little paranoid here?

By the way, just because you've got bodies at a position, OLB, if those bodies are filled by jags, by no means are you set at that position. AD has played nicely when healthy but has hardly been the impact guy we envisioned replacing McGinest and taking this defense to the next level. Rosie was similarly disappointing. Woods and Crable have proven nothing. And PUH-LEEZ don't cite practice squad guys as the answer either.

The Pats inside linebacker combo currently has the highest upside of any other position on our defense and both guys are YOUNG and healthy. That is the position needing the LEAST upgrading. A 3rd developmental ILB can be found in round 5 or 6 of the draft or a jag FA ILB signed to rotate. I wouldn't place ILB in my top 5 either or even near it, in fact it would be near the bottom of needs, though admittedly ahead of LONG SNAPPER!!

Let's try this again. Pass rusher is a NEED on this team. Someone who can pressure the QB so that the Chad Pennington's of the world don't look like the second coming of Dan Marino because he has ALL DAY to throw. I don't care if you have Champ Bailey back there, if the QB gets that much time to throw the defense will get burned.

Now there are 3 feasible ways to get a passrusher - draft, free agency, trade. Trade is the least likely scenario in the NFL because of salary cap implications. So it's gonna be the draft or free agency. BB and his staff will do their homework and find an answer because pass rushing IS a need. The same people who assert that it is NOT a need are the same people who said we would be just fine at WR after Branch and Givens left town and our WR corps was full of JAGS in 2006. Guess what, BB disagreed and not only got us Moss and Welker, but even spent a high 2nd round selection on Chad Jackson. Jackson was a bust but CLEARLY the front office went guns blazing to address the NEED. And it worked. See record setting 2007 season for details.
 
Last edited:
what are you talking about. who said anything about long snapper
 
if you think we need a pass rusher we are on the same page. you just gotta stop ripping people all the time. its rude
 
what are you talking about. who said anything about long snapper

Both mgteich and dabruinz have cited longsnapper in their 'top 5 needs'. It boggles the mind, but if you scroll back, it's right there in black and white.

if you think we need a pass rusher we are on the same page. you just gotta stop ripping people all the time. its rude

Apparently you don't have enough time dealing with Dabruinz. Rude is the only thing his brain can process. ;-) And trust me, this isn't even CLOSE to rude. Read more of his posts on this message board, and you'll see why.
 
Last edited:
hahah yah i dont know whats going through his mind
 
ohh. he really did mention long snapper. haha. i guess it was such a ridiculous comment i blocked it out of my mind. hahah
 
2nd...i think it is amazing how i read this website so often and have come across a lot of people who actually bring a lot to this site. while i think you (dabruinz) have a good idea of what goes on, i find it insulting that you basically "quote" everybody and their opinion and attempt to rip into them. if it is a ridiculous statement, i understand, but you try and rip into EVERYONE that comes into here. that is pathetic. jmo, but probably everyone elses. you need to like relax. you are not belichek. while you might want to be, which is fine, and you may think you know what he is doing, you dont. you can speculate based on the past...too fine. but stop copying every single persons quotes in here

Listen, instead of making dumb arse comments like in the previous post and in the one I quoted, why don't you try sticking to the topic? Or can't you be bothered?

I know what I am and what I am not. I know how I've based my opinions and I can support them with fact and have done so on many occasion. I don't pretend to be Bill Belichick and I do make mistakes. And when I do, I do one of two things usually. I either acknowledge it and correct it, or thank the person who corrected me.

As for your analysis of me, dude, you need to get off your Holier than thou soap box. You are so far off its pathetic in your attempt to analyze me. Just as pathetic as your attempt to slam myself and MG for the number of posts we have.

As for quoting people, I'll do what I damn well please. If you don't like it, you have 3 options. You can put me on ignore (which I think I'd be happy with), you can deal, or you can leave.
 
I'm sorry but if you are prioritizing Long Snapper of all positions as a top 5 need, you are off your rocker. Paxton is not going to cost a fortune to resign and he is a NICHE player on special teams. I'd place punter ahead of long snapper as a need, and punter ain't in my top 5, no way no how. Who is out there waiting to snatch Paxton away from us? the Colts? Being a little paranoid here?

VJC - You clearly don't understand the importance of the long snapper for you to have such an attitude. In fact, I'd say that you'd be bordline ignorant.

Some things to remember, Paxton was a free agent this past off-season. The Patriots had plenty of cap available to sign him to a long term deal, yet he only signed a 1 year deal. So either he refused a long term deal or the Pats didn't offer him one. In ANY case, that makes long snapper, which is the signle most important special teams position that is not a kicker or punter, a top need. You can feel otherwise, but IMHO, it just means you aren't bothering to look at all the facts.


By the way, just because you've got bodies at a position, OLB, if those bodies are filled by jags, by no means are you set at that position. AD has played nicely when healthy but has hardly been the impact guy we envisioned replacing McGinest and taking this defense to the next level. Rosie was similarly disappointing. Woods and Crable have proven nothing. And PUH-LEEZ don't cite practice squad guys as the answer either.

Do me a favor and go do some studying on 3-4 2GAP OLBs who have been successful. Or can't you be bothered? Also, your talent evaluation leaves a lot to be desired... Or did you suddently gain the ability to see the future so you know that Woods, Redd, Crabel, Robertson, and Craig are just only going to amount to JAGS in their careers. You're being a complete idiot in saying such.

Sorry, but Woods proved that he can play the 3-4 OLB position for the Patriots at a level that can allow this team to continue to succeed. The coaches saw that.

To call Colvin a disappointment because he suffered a career threatening injury during his second game as a Patriots is just sheer idiocy. Did you ever stop to think that maybe YOUR excpectations

BTW, I'll cite anything and everything I can to show that you are being close-minded to the point of being a buffoon.

The Pats inside linebacker combo currently has the highest upside of any other position on our defense and both guys are YOUNG and healthy. That is the position needing the LEAST upgrading. A 3rd developmental ILB can be found in round 5 or 6 of the draft or a jag FA ILB signed to rotate. I wouldn't place ILB in my top 5 either or even near it, in fact it would be near the bottom of needs, though admittedly ahead of LONG SNAPPER!!

That is you. Its clear that you have your own opinions, some of which aren't based on how the Patriots have handled things in the past. BTW, if you are going to say that Woods hasn't proven anything, then you have to say the same about Guyton, based on what you've presented as supporting evidence.. oh .. wait... you've not presented anything... Hmm....


Let's try this again. Pass rusher is a NEED on this team. Someone who can pressure the QB so that the Chad Pennington's of the world don't look like the second coming of Dan Marino because he has ALL DAY to throw. I don't care if you have Champ Bailey back there, if the QB gets that much time to throw the defense will get burned.

You have YOUR unfounded opinion. MG and I have ours. BTW, please show MG and myself where we said that OLB wasn't a need.....

Now there are 3 feasible ways to get a passrusher - draft, free agency, trade. Trade is the least likely scenario in the NFL because of salary cap implications. So it's gonna be the draft or free agency. BB and his staff will do their homework and find an answer because pass rushing IS a need. The same people who assert that it is NOT a need are the same people who said we would be just fine at WR after Branch and Givens left town and our WR corps was full of JAGS in 2006. Guess what, BB disagreed and not only got us Moss and Welker, but even spent a high 2nd round selection on Chad Jackson. Jackson was a bust but CLEARLY the front office went guns blazing to address the NEED. And it worked. See record setting 2007 season for details.

There is nothing like over-stating things in a poor attempt to support your case. No one said that a younger OLB who could meet the Patriots needs of someone who can rush the Passer, set the edge against the run and drop into coverage wasn't a need. That is your BS reaction to where MG and I have OLB on our list of needs.

I have news for you. If you are going to use an example, the least you could do is have your facts about the example correct. You have your whole time line screwed up and you are clearly forgetting a HUGE piece of the puzzle. Deion Branch. See, you are one of the people who forgets that Deion Branch LIED to the Patriots prior to the 2006 draft and said that he wouldn't hold out and that he'd play through his contract. It wasn't until AFTER the Patriots had drafted Chad Jackson in 2006 that Branch came out and said that he would be holding out. Jackson was hurt during the mini camps and, as such, missed a majority of training camp. The Pats were left with JAGS because of the Branch situation. And it was because of how good Welker played during the 2006 season against the Patriots that Belichick went out and got him. And Moss was a low risk, high reward offer that was too good to pass up.

So, I'm sorry, but you are wrong on three counts. You are wrong in your assertion that MG and I don't see OLB as a need. We do. We just don't see it as high of a need as you do. You are wrong with example. You're whole thought process was incorrect. And it shows you really aren't bothering to think through your rebuttles. The third count where you are wrong is in your definition of the type of OLB tht the Patriots need. They don't need a straight pass rusher. They need someone who can rush the passer, set the edge, and drop into coverage. They aren't going to find that in a draft pick.
 
3rd. . . . I agree Adalius Thomas is a versatile player. his skill set is perfect for our system, and everyone elses in this league. you make a good point this is why he was brought in. but at the end of the day, if a 3-4 (or any pro system) is going to work you need to put pressure on the QB. we brought both colvin and thomas to do just that.

i believe, and i think most people would, that if you are able to put pressure on the qB you can get by with a secondary that may not be as good as others. the giants, while they play a 4-3, were, and are, able to put pressure on the QB and their CBs, while good, look very good. whether in a 4-3 or 3-4, if you put pressure on the QB you can get by with better QBs.

we need an OLB to put pressure on the QB. me and you have argued about vrabel in the past. i think we need another olb with the ability to get to the qb.

this is why i think OLB is something we should address. i would love suggs, but i dont know if thats going to be possible. we may have to do it in the draft in the 1st or 2nd round. i do think that we can go OL, DL, LB, or DB in the draft and be fine. i just would hope a top LB would be available when we are up

Please show me where I say that OLB is NOT a need. I just reviewed my list and its at #6.

I think that part of your problem is that you think that this list of how I expect the Pats to draft or something. Its not. Its just where I see the Pats priorities being right now.


AND STOP QUOTING EVERYONE. its annoying

I quote the person that I am replying to. Its not annoying. Its actually polite. Its so that the person knows that the message is directed to him or her. What is annoying is people like yourself who insist on whining about things like that. It shows a lack of intelligence. Just like absurd attempts to belittle people about their post counts.
 
Both mgteich and dabruinz have cited longsnapper in their 'top 5 needs'. It boggles the mind, but if you scroll back, it's right there in black and white.

Yep. We did. For very valid reasons. Sorry that we are more thorough than you and don't make assumptions. I guess that is one of the many differences between us.
 
ohh. he really did mention long snapper. haha. i guess it was such a ridiculous comment i blocked it out of my mind. hahah

How is it a ridiculous comment? Because you say so? Because you can't think beyond the scope of your little box to realize that Paxton is a UFA. That Paxton wasn't signed to a long term deal this past season even though the Patriots had plenty of cap room to do so? Did you stop to think that maybe it was Paxton who didn't want to sign a another long term deal with the Patriots and wanted to see what his options were?

Prior to this one year deal, Paxton had been signed to a 5 year deal. Why wouldn't he want a longer deal that would give him a bit of security?

Long snapper is the single most important special teams position that not kicker or punter. Until someone is signed, its a priority in the opinion of myself and MG. Also, as I said in my addendum, this list will change based on what the Pats do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots QB Drake Maye Analysis and What to Expect in Round 2 and 3
Five Patriots/NFL Thoughts Following Night One of the 2024 NFL Draft
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/26: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots QB Drake Maye Conference Call
Patriots Now Have to Get to Work After Taking Maye
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf and Jerod Mayo After Patriots Take Drake Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Back
Top