Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[BradyFTW!]

Right here shows what i'm dealing with. If you think me stating he never really fully lived up to expectations as 'trashing' him, than you are extremely sensitive and getting way too defensive about it.

I've been nothing but complimentary towards Seymour aside from me stating that opinion about him, yet i'm trashing him?

I didn't say that you were trashing him. A lot of people here do, but you're not one of them.

Now, how about the rest of my post? Are you aware of the difference between 2 gap and 1 gap, and 3, 5 and 7 technique? If you think that Peppers would be the best 3-4 DEs in the league, then clearly you don't understand the difference. If you did, you'd understand that Seymour has met or surpassed all expectations that one could reasonably have had when he was drafted.

 

[mgteich]

And if we win the Super Bowl despite the enormous risk, then it worked out? If Mayo doesn't get injured, then it worked out not to have a backup? Ditto for Brady?

Yeah, this trade was like a WTF moment when I saw it. We are signinficantly less talented as a team. This hurts us this year but the draft pick will help us in 2011. We'll see how this turns out. Officially the end of an era. Big Sey was a major contributer in our 2001 Super Bowl team (his rookie year) and he was an integral part in all of our other Super Bowl teams. I have faith in Belichick, but the last couple of days have me scratching my head.

I am looking forward to our season even more.

 

[TeamFirst]

From what Wilfork said, Seymour knew this was coming a few months ago. Someone posted on here that Pioli may have been the calming voice in some of the decisions that Bill makes. Maybe this is one of them.

How do you trade Vrabel and Seymour in the same off-season?

Most importantly what if any is the next move?

I haven't seen enough of Burgess to think he is the answer.

The secondary is still weak. If this team can't rush the passer then they are in huge trouble.

They can't afford Peppers.

Wilfork is going to see double teams now.

Seymour will be missed.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What makes you think that? He's had one significant injury in his career, and he sustained it while playing fullback. At this point, Ty Warren's probably a more significant injury risk, since Seymour proved that he was 100% healthy in 2008.

Doesn't matter how he sustained it, and I think he's knees are going to be problematic going forward. He wasn't in on all downs last year and at one point publicly biatched about it...because he apparently began to see that as a diss...

He had a huge impact on the defense- teams couldn't run at him. Runs on the left tackle averaged over a yard less than they did anywhere else on the line. Teams stopped even trying to run at him after a while. On passing downs, he moved into the 3-technique, where he got 8.5 sacks, leading the team. He was our best player at both stopping the run and rushing the passer...

And it wasn't enough to justify his $10M AAV extension, and we're moving towards more 4-3 this season probably because the league is catching up and BB is always thinking ahead.

Wilfork's taken his contract negotiations public, and has made it very clear that he wants more money. Just like Seymour, he wants to get paid. If that's how you see things, then that's fair, as long as you're consistent and hit Wilfork with the same label.

Brady took his public in frustration in 2005 too, but neither held out. And in the end Brady's deal was a relative bargain considering the way Manning's deal was looming ($10M vs. $14). If Wilfork wants top 3 money he will be gone too. If he can live with top 5 he will probably beback and provide a great example to the young-uns' going forward. He has the personality to be a leader on and off the field. Richard never had that.



I at least partially agree with this. To me, it's a simple equation: Seymour wasn't coming back, so they valued a 2011 first rounder higher than Seymour in 2009 and a 3rd round comp pick in 2011. It's that simple: no more and no less. Trying to make it a matter of Milloy pt. 2 is just dumb. One guy was cut, the other was traded for a first round pick. How does that even warrant a comparison?

Milloy planted the seeds of dissent in the locker room post first championship. His play slacked off as well. Bill perhaps naively believed he could reel his heart and soul football player back in. Richard is coming off a rebound season, but the seed Lawyer planted in him as a rookie has always remained. How else do you explain his close bond with the mediot who once slammed BB for his foolish selection. Necessity. Both have nagging issues with the financial component of the system and the man who represents it no matter how often it proves to be consistently wildly successful (comparatively speaking...). Brady on the other hand will support fellow players to an extent, because he has to or face their tuning him out, but in the end he always acknowledges the discipline of the system on and off the field and including financially and how committment to it (tough as it may sometimes prove to be) is the cornerstone for continued competitiveness and success.

 

[IcyPatriot]

How do you trade Vrabel and Seymour in the same off-season?

Most importantly what if any is the next move?

A trade for Brandon Marshall???

 

[TeamFirst]

A trade for Brandon Marshall???

I was actually thinking that. Ocho Cinco would be nice!!! lol.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

alot of people are shocked and a bit upset. But i think the pats got a steal for a player who was gonna be a free agent, when in fact they are stacked a D-line. Seymour has alot of milage on him. need to continue to franchise transformation. if you're not changing and improving then you're falling behind

 

[slash83]

A trade for Brandon Marshall???

Peppersss...

 

[IcyPatriot]

Peppersss...

Broncos are on record (I think) of saying they'll take a 1st and 4th for Marshall.

 

[SVN]

Mights and could bes...there are all kinds of situations..and what ifs...He might have also been injured?? I mean Who knows!!
One point in all of this is that we really don't know the back story leading up to this at all. Only a bit has leaked out and I have to say that that is pretty good for BOTH parties..the team and Rchard. Usually the media gets involved and it accelerates a situation for theworst. Vince, to his credit, has played it straight, talking to the press and doing a great job to keep things civil. That's one way to do it. Another is to keep it totally away as seems to be in this other situation. THAT also is a good way to handle things..BOTH very professionally done. We may never know the whole story and that is OK. Richard is gone..he was a great Patriot player and it's really time to thank him for all that he did and move on.

as i posted elsewhere
does anyone know for a fact that pats were shopping seymour or the raiders called after their putrid run defense and asked for seymour ? everyone in the league knows which players are in the contract yrs and these are typical. thats how hobbs got traded if i remember correectly. Andy reid called BB after he drafted all these DB's and asked for hobbs. i guess Al davis did the same and made an offer which was too good to pass up .

 

[SteveBsFan]

I didn't say that you were trashing him. A lot of people here do, but you're not one of them.

Now, how about the rest of my post? Are you aware of the difference between 2 gap and 1 gap, and 5 technique and 7 technique? If you think that Peppers would be the best 3-4 DEs in the league, then clearly you don't understand these fairly elementary terms.

Yes I understand those things, I simply don't agree with you but there is no way to prove it so there was no need to reply about it. In fact, debating about football is extremely hard because there are little stats to help with anything because so few players are on even playing grounds with others, and a lot of stats are team based.

There is no way to really prove Peppers would be a great in a 3-4, just like there is no way to disprove it. It was my opinion he'd be great, and it is your opinion he wouldn't.

 

[TeamFirst]

Peppersss...

How do you expect to pay his salary this year? Last I checked they only have 5.7 mill maybe less in cap space, is the money growing on trees? Or is Bill going to trade Brady to the Raiders for 1st rounders for the next 10 years?

 

[slash83]

How do you expect to pay his salary this year? Last I checked they only have 5.7 mill maybe less in cap space, is the money growing on trees? Or is Bill going to trade Brady to the Raiders for 1st rounders for the next 10 years?

Havnet you heard of monopoly money, seriously? BTW dont be so gullible.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Doesn't matter how he sustained it, and I think he's knees are going to be problematic going forward. He wasn't in on all downs last year and at one point publicly biatched about it...because he apparently began to see that as a diss...

Of course it matters that he sustained it playing FB, because he doesn't play FB anymore. He plays DE, and he's never sustained a serious injury playing DE. When someone suffers an injury playing their position, it's worrisome because there's a good chance that they'll suffer it again, since whatever caused the injury, they have to keep doing it. When they sustain an injury playing a totally different position, then that's not an ongoing risk, because they're not being put in that situation anymore.

Do you know how Seymour hurt his knee? He was playing FB, and the running back kept running into the back of his knee while he was blocking. Therefore, he hurt his knee. Once that became apparent, he stopped playing fullback, and his knee healed and he was fine. Pretty simple stuff.

And it wasn't enough to justify his $10M AAV extension, and we're moving towards more 4-3 this season probably because the league is catching up and BB is always thinking ahead.

I agree with that, although I think there's a possibility that the cause and effect might be reversed. The premium on 3-4 DEs is so high right now (Ty Jackson getting picked #3 overall might have been the tipping point) that Belichick might be implementing the 4-3 specifically because 3-4 DEs are becoming too expensive. That's exactly the kind of forward-thinking that makes him the best at what he does.

Milloy planted the seeds of dissent in the locker room post first championship. His play slacked off as well. Bill perhaps naively believed he could reel his heart and soul football player back in. Richard is coming off a rebound season, but the seed Lawyer planted in him as a rookie has always remained. How else do you explain his close bond with the mediot who once slammed BB for his foolish selection. Necessity. Both have nagging issues with the financial component of the system and the man who represents it no matter how often it proves to be consistently wildly successful (comparatively speaking...). Brady on the other hand will support fellow players to an extent, because he has to or face their tuning him out, but in the end he always acknowledges the discipline of the system on and off the field and including financially and how committment to it (tough as it may sometimes prove to be) is the cornerstone for continued competitiveness and success.

Speculation.

 

[TeamFirst]

Havnet you heard of monopoly money, seriously? BTW dont be so gullible.

Lol Ok! Thank You

 

[BradyFTW!]

There is no way to really prove Peppers would be a great in a 3-4, just like there is no way to disprove it. It was my opinion he'd be great, and it is your opinion he wouldn't.

Peppers wouldn't be a good 3-4 DE, period. You need proof? How about that his most valued skill--explosiveness--is not consistently leveraged in systems that value gap discipline over penetration? Or that, at 285 pounds, he would have a very hard time managing 2-gap responsibilities? Because he's so freakishly talented, he'd probably be decent at it, but it would be one of the most egregious cases of jamming a square peg into a round hole that any of us had ever seen.

In the 3-4, Peppers is an OLB. He'd be a better Shawne Merriman. That's why Peppers demanded a trade this past offseason- his agent outright stated that he felt that his skills were better suited to being a 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE. This is what Carl Carey, Peppers' agent, said about it:

Carey said ideally Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 defensive system where he can stand up and roam the field as a hybrid defensive end/outside linebacker, similar to how the Dallas Cowboys use DeMarcus Ware and how the San Diego Chargers have used Shawne Merriman in the past before his injury.

This isn't a matter of opinion. Even Peppers has publicly stated that he's best leveraged in a position where his responsibilities are almost entirely pass-rush (aka: the antithesis of a 5-technique, 2-gap DE)

 

[ausbacker]

Wilfork is going to see double teams now.

You're clearly joking about this comment right? What part of 2 gap isn't a double team already?

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't see any pass rushing DE/3-4 OLB being brought in this season. 2010 is another matter. Sean Merriman and DeMarcus Ware may both be FA's. And the Pats have more than enough draft picks in the bank to make a run at either and not miss a beat:

2010: Our #1 and #2 and 2 extra #2's from Tennessee and Jax.
2011: Our #1 and #2 and an extra #1 from Oakland.

We could potentially sign a franchised player and give up our #1's from 2010 and 2011 and still be left with 3 2010 2nd round picks as well as our 2011 2nd rounder and a high 2011 1st round pick from Oakland. Not too shabby.

Not saying it's going to happen. Just saying that we have so much ammo that are positioned to be able to do just about anything we choose to.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't see any pass rushing DE/3-4 OLB being brought in this season. 2010 is another matter. Sean Merriman and DeMarcus Ware may both be FA's. And the Pats have more than enough draft picks in the bank to make a run at either and not miss a beat:

2010: Our #1 and #2 and 2 extra #2's from Tennessee and Jax.
2011: Our #1 and #2 and an extra #1 from Oakland.

We could potentially sign a franchised player and give up our #1's from 2010 and 2011 and still be left with 3 2010 2nd round picks as well as our 2011 2nd rounder and a high 2011 1st round pick from Oakland. Not too shabby.

Not saying it's going to happen. Just saying that we have so much ammo that are positioned to be able to do just about anything we choose to.

Super post.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Peppers wouldn't be a good 3-4 DE, period. You need proof? How about that his most valued skill--explosiveness--is not consistently leveraged in systems that value gap discipline over penetration? Or that, at 285 pounds, he would have a very hard time managing 2-gap responsibilities? Because he's so freakishly talented, he'd probably be decent at it, but it would be one of the most egregious cases of jamming a square peg into a round hole that any of us had ever seen.

In the 3-4, Peppers is an OLB. He'd be a better Shawne Merriman. That's why Peppers demanded a trade this past offseason- his agent outright stated that he felt that his skills were better suited to being a 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE. This is what Carl Carey, Peppers' agent, said about it:



This isn't a matter of opinion. Even Peppers has publicly stated that he's best leveraged in a position where his responsibilities are almost entirely pass-rush (aka: the antithesis of a 5-technique, 2-gap DE)

Well all right then, I stand corrected. Perhaps he wouldn't be good.