Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[BradyFTW!]

There is one more blocker free on every play now.

Pretty much. I guess that's why we're moving to the 4-3: takes 2 normal men to do Seymour's job.

 

[slash83]

Pretty much. I guess that's why we're moving to the 4-3: takes 2 normal men to do Seymour's job.

I think the Pats blitz a lot more this season, make up for the lost production Seymour brought; especially now since they have a secondary you'd think that could hold up longer in coverage.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

IF this trade was for the Raiders 2010 #1 I would say it is a "no brainer", still does anyone here think that the Raiders are not going to garner the Pats a top ten pick in 2011? The Pats just traded a guy in the last year of his contract, who they figured they could not resing, for a #1 pick. It is a steal anyway you look at it, especially if you look at Jarvus Green replacing Seymour, it's not like they are replacing him with a scrub.

Seymour was a great player here, and he still has plenty of wear left on his tires, but ther deal was too good to pass up.

 

[TomPatriot]

For those who think that the loss of Seymour won't be felt:

Adjusted Line Yards for running on the Pats (and ranking)

Left End: 4.30 (20th)
Left Tackle: 2.88 (2nd) <--- Seymour
Mid/Guard: 4.18 (14th) <-- Wilfork
Right Tackle: 4.26 (22nd) <-- Warren
Right End: 4.41 (24th)

Which of these numbers is not like the other? Since most people only seem to evaluate defensive players for their sack totals, Seymour doesn't get anywhere near his due, because his greatest value is in that he absolutely shuts down the run. It's impossible to run behind the left tackle when Seymour's playing.

So basically, we just lost our best run-stopper and our top pass-rusher on the DL. AKA, the MVP of our defense. I get that we got value for him before he walked, but don't be surprised when our run defense suddenly becomes a problem this year. Maybe Belichick's banking on our opponents playing from too far behind to exploit Seymour's absence against the run, but this isn't going to help us win any games in january...

I thought ALY was a stat created to determine an entire offensive line's production over a season, not to determine individual defensive linemen's performances. To determine individual performance I think you'd have to know the offensive set, audible, actual play and defensive scheme for every play and then create a new variable for those factors. That means watching a lot of film many times.

I'd like to see a fair comparison of Derrick Burgess and Jarvis Green to Seymour in a 4-3.

 

[Real World]

Guys, one aspect people aren't mentioning, with respect to aquiring the 2011 pick, versus a 2010 pick, is what could be an NBA style rookie pay scale in 2 years. There's been alot of talk around the league about how the unrpoven picks in top end of the draft, are getting silly money, and in some cases, more than the best all-pro's at their respective positions, before playing a down. Maybe the Pats FO feels that the new CBO will include a drastically more economical system for draft picks. Just this past offseason we heard all the opinions of those who felt BB wouldn't want the Chiefs top pick for Cassel, because of the contract the #3 pick was sure to get. Even last year we saw the Pats trade down to #10, and save cash, when drafting Mayo. The financial aspect of the rookie bonus', might be a factor in their thinking. Just a thought anyhow.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

A humorous take on all of this...

Some wag suggested on Sirius today that the Raiders just might as well have traded away one of their number one picks since they don't seem to know what to do with them when they have them.

Made sense to me.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Guys, one aspect people aren't mentioning, with respect to aquiring the 2001 pick, versus a 2010 pick, is what could be an NBA style rookie pay scale. Thee's been alot of talk around the league about how the unrpoven picks in top end of the draft, are getting silly money, and in some cases, more than the best all-pro's at their respective positions. Maybe the Pats FO feels that the new CBO will include a drastically more economical system, for draft picks. Just this past offseason we heard all the opinions of those who felt BB wouldn't want the Chiefs top pick for Cassel, because of the contract the #3 pick was sure to get. Even last year we saw the Pats trade down to #10, and save cash, when drafting Mayo. The financial aspect of the rookie bonus', might be a factor in their thinking. Just a thought anyhow.

With ALL due props for the photos in your sig, that's already been discussed quite a bit in this thread.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I would just like to say that as an intemperate fan who can't wait to watch the Pats dominate their next opponent, that I find this sort of forward-looking, deep-thinking transaction to be a bit of a buzz-kill. At least we'll get to watch the new kids play (or is Kevin Carter about to sign...)

 

[Real World]

With ALL due props for the photos in your sig, that's already been discussed quite a bit in this thread.

Doh! Well, first off, it is a nice sig, isn't it? Oh, and second, my appologies. I got to page 10 or so, saw it wasn't mentioned, and then posted. To all of you who made the same point, you're wickid smaht!

 

[jsull87]

i think what happened to me is what happened to alot of you when hearing this news. I thought **** there goes the best player on defense when we are making a superbowl run therefore negative and i hate the trade. But then i had a think and yes no one can logically argue that we won't badly miss one of the best DL in the game. but when you look at the trade oakland got seymore for a year and gave us a 2011 1st rounder. we gave up seymore 1 year before we needed too but instead of a compensation we got a 1st rounder. so after i sat back and looked at it that way i think the pats got pretty damn good value. i just want seymore to leave the raiders after one season now... making our 2011 pick have a higher chance of being top 10

 

[SteveBsFan]

He said best 3-4 DE. If Seymour's not the best, then who's better?

Oh you're right I misread his post. My point stands however. If he's being classified as the best at his position in a formation not every team uses, that's not living up to the expectations of a #6 overall imo.

I think he was close, it's not like he was a bust by any means. I'm not going to be one of those people who bash him now that he's gone, I think he's great and he'll be missed. Definitely a short term loss for a long term gain.

 

[DaBruinz]

I hope you didn't read my post as a dig at Warren, because it definitely wasn't. He's a top-tier DE, who, like Seymour, sustained a serious injury and saw his production drop. I'm confident that he'll be right back at elite status this year, just as Seymour was in 2008. (I find it a little strange, though, that Warren and Seymour are perceived so differently on this board, when they're so similar. Warren's decreased effectiveness is correctly attributed to the injury, while Seymour's labeled an injury-prone lazy player who never reached his potential. Go figure).

2007:
LE: 4.12 (17th)
LT:4.16 (17th) <-- Green, then Seymour post-PUP
MG:4.16 (20th) <-- Wilfork
RT: 4.67 (26th) <-- Warren
RE: 2.63 (4th) <-- while this is more Vrabel's responsibility, I'm sure that Warren played a very significant role in it.

2006:
LE: 3.24 (7th)
LT: 4.25 (15th) <--Seymour; this is the year that he messed up his knee, correct?
MG: 4.08 (12th) <--Wilfork
RT: 2.79 (4th) <--Warren, who was an absolute force in 2006
RE: 4.05 (16th)

Much of the reason that Seymour is perceived so differently from Warren is Seymour's attitude. Seymour reminds me so much of Bledsoe. Warren reminds me of a lunch-pail type of guy who wants to come in and do his job and be the best at his job. He doesn't need to tell everyone how good he is at his job because he's been shown that its already been recognized (hence the early contract extension).

BTW, It should be noted that Warren was also playing with an injury in 2007. I think it was a shoulder, but I forget exactly.

 

[DaBruinz]

Seymour quit us a long time ago. Why dont you quit him?

Where is your proof of this???

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh you're right I misread his post. My point stands however. If he's being classified as the best at his position in a formation not every team uses, that's not living up to the expectations of a #6 overall imo.

I think he was close, it's not like he was a bust by any means. I'm not going to be one of those people who bash him now that he's gone, I think he's great and he'll be missed. Definitely a short term loss for a long term gain.

That makes no sense at all. First, and foremost, Seymour had been widely considered one of the best defensive players in the league. The idea that because the 3-4 2Gap isn't used by every team lessens Seymour's accomplishments and therefore didn't meet expectations is erroneous.

I am going to ask you a very serious question. Are you Ron Borges?? Seriously, I've never seen someone so wrong about a player as Ron Borges was about the Pats drafting Seymour. The only other person I've seen be this wrong is Mav4 about McDaniels... But that is a different story.

 

[slash83]

One thing that I've been thinking about that I wanted to get your guys opinion on is this.. I'm glad the Patriots are always thinking of the future to help maintain the teams ability to keep the team competitive year after year. But my question is with a move like today's, at what expense do you give up your chances of winning a title this year and maybe next year to stay competitive in the following years If the teams always looking down the road to build upon the future, how much does it take away from now?

I'm looking forward to hear your guys take on all of my jibber jabbin...

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

The move seems strange.

I don't understand the economics of it, but why wouldn't we just tag and trade Sey next year? Too much money still with that and unable to extend Wilfork? Does the Franchise Tag demand two first rounders or could we accept one?

This was his contract year and I expected him to play for his new payday somewhere. Hate to see that gone now.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Steve - I had the feeling you didn't understand what the job of the 3-4 DE in the 2 Gap system was supposed to be, but you just proved you didn't. Which explains the fallacy of your posts.

Steve almost certainly does not, Seymour is a great pass rusher in spite ofthe system not because of it. Seymour is freakishly athletic for his large frame and weight thus making him the best 3-4 end in football.

His job in our defense is the eat space and provide lanes for our Long and agile OLBs who are supposed to use said openings to bat down balls, create sack opportunities and pressure the QB into making poor reads/throws into our confusing zone defense.

I understand what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do, but thanks for the lesson.

I also understand how good Seymour is, but no matter what is said, I won't be able to agree he has fully lived up to expectations. Has he been a great DE, especially in the Patriots system? Yes. I've been a huge fan of his, so don't make it seem like i'm bashing the guy.

Maybe I just expect more out of the 6th overall pick than others do.

 

[mgteich]

We gotton lost at least one year of one of the very best players at his position in the NFL. In return, we secured a draft pick two years in the future. And it is not as if anyone is ready to take is place. Green was considered a likely cut by many and few consider Wright a top DE.

Belichick is taking a great risk with the 2009 defense. The defense was the #10 last year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Oh you're right I misread his post. My point stands however. If he's being classified as the best at his position in a formation not every team uses, that's not living up to the expectations of a #6 overall imo.

That does not make sense on any level. You draft a guy to play a vital role on your team, and he becomes the best player in the league at playing that role. How is that not living up to expectations?

 

[patsfan-1982]

i dont know why they would trade seymour for a first round pick in 2011 ?

even if they play the 4-3 full time they dont have the pass rushing DE they need to play a 4-3 will they move AD to DE with burgess and wilfork and brace playing DT ?

i just dont see why you would trade your best passrusher when your not a good passrushing team to start with