Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[primetime]

There was only one potential first ballot HOF'er on this roster yesterday and his name wasn't Richard Seymour. There is only one other HOF lock in the organization and he wears a hoodie and not a uniform.

Saying Moss is not a lock is pretty disingenuous. He's not an absolute certain first balloter like Brady but he's pretty close.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Valued more, yes, but thats not the same as saying they're not good at it.

... and right tackles run blocking skills are MUCH more valued than they are for left tackles. Are you still with me?

 

[silenthuntr7]

Saying Moss is not a lock is pretty disingenuous. He's not an absolute certain first balloter like Brady but he's pretty close.

Totally agree with this...and if Moss isn't first ballot, it's only because Brady, Manning, Gonzo, and say Champ all retire in the same year.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

There was only one potential first ballot HOF'er on this roster yesterday and his name wasn't Richard Seymour. There is only one other HOF lock in the organization and he wears a hoodie and not a uniform.

Seymour appeared to be on track for the HOF through 2004. He hasn't been back on that track since. Kinda like Law. It's debateable whether he can regain it from Oakland and he will be turning 31 before he plays for someone else. He had his knees scoped again this offseason. That will probably become a recurring theme going forward. Maybe if he'd dealt with them sooner rather than conducting a holdout in 2005 and struggling through 2006 after he cashed his $18M option bonus only to miss half of 2007 he would not only be a lock but would have finished his career closer to where his kids were in school (although when it suited him his home town was in South Carolina as he reminded us...).

Brady is most assuredly a first ballot HOFer and Randy won't be far behind him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I still just don't think of Randy based on his short time here. He was probably a HOF'er even if he remained in Oakland, although certainly not a first ballot inductee. He could change that here, but it hasn't quite happened yet.

Of the homegrowns or dynasty Patriots it is Brady and Belichick (and probably Kraft) and some bubble candidates like Law, Harrison...then who knows from the younger group. But Seymour has been off track since 2004, and that was half his career ago.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Um, most teams have trouble running to the left side. Left tackles typically protect the QB a lot better than they can run block. Don't forget, Sey didn't even play on 3rd downs last year.

That's why the league rankings are there. Relative to other teams, the Pats were the second hardest to run at, so clearly we were doing something right- we shut down that entire side of the field against the run better than everyone except Tennessee. And there are a whole lot of LTs that are very capable run-blockers. In fact, NFL teams, on average, run behind the left tackle with the same frequency as the right tackle.

 

[Fencer]

Between the guard and the center..... maybe. Do you really disupute the fact that left tackles are typically valued much more for pass protection than run blcoking? Cuz it's the left tackle Sey will play against most often.

To put it another way, they're optimized to play against Dwight Freeneys rather than Richard Seymour, if a choice is necessary.

But the prototypical LT is so big that a choice is NOT necessary.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is simply not true.

After the Milloy release the Pats were so much under the cap that after all of the in-season injury replacements that they were able to do the phony LTBE move with Brandon Gorin for around $3 million. For the Pats to be over the cap by nearly 2 million Milloy's 2003 salary had to be close to $6 million and it was not.

Miquel - when the argument occurred here on this site, I used YOUR site (yours is the only place I get my Pats Salary Cap info) as part of the argument. If that number is wrong, then so be it. However, here are the words of Bill Belichick during his press conference on 9/2/03


Bill Belichick Press Conf. Transcript - 09/02/2003

Q: Would you have been over the cap?


BB: Well there is going to be a point where we have to be under the cap in the new accounting and we have to comply with that. Yes.


Q: If you had kept Lawyer you would have bumped over that number?


BB: Yes.

So, if I'm wrong on the 2 million, so be it. I'm man enough to admit that I am human and could have the exact numbers wrong.

But, there you have it direct from BB's own mouth. The Pats would have been over the cap. The Pats had IRed Neal, Klingsbury, Stricker, and Mruczkowski. That cost them over a million in cap space.

Also, reviewing the list, they had no single player whom they hadn't already re-negotiated with who would free up enough money to get them under the cap. As you know, a player's contract can only be adjusted once in a 12 month period. And they couldn't go and cut guys who had re-negotiated their contracts

You should be able to go back to your spreadsheet and, given that you know when the transactions occured, you should be able to provide for everyone exactly how much over the cap the Pats were.

 

[italia44]

This is simply not true.

After the Milloy release the Pats were so much under the cap that after all of the in-season injury replacements that they were able to do the phony LTBE move with Brandon Gorin for around $3 million. For the Pats to be over the cap by nearly 2 million Milloy's 2003 salary had to be close to $6 million and it was not.

I remember that Gorin situation......you have a terrific memory or else you have a Cray super-computer in your basement.

Didn't Goodell put the brakes on that LTBE nonsense,where NE and especially Indy,were abusing it?

 

[TomPatriot]

Please post anything that suggests that Poston was given permission by the patriots to negotiate with other teams and that he asked that Milloy be released right before the first game instead of earlier which would have helped Milloy and his new team.

This is not my source but happy reading as it conveys the same general info. Note Poston was talking to teams before Milloy was released.

Pats cut Pro Bowl safety Milloy | Oakland Tribune | Find Articles at BNET

 

[DaBruinz]

I remember that Gorin situation......you have a terrific memory or else you have a Cray super-computer in your basement.

Didn't Goodell put the brakes on that LTBE nonsense,where NE and especially Indy,were abusing it?

Italia - he has it on his web site.. Its easy to look up..

If any team was "abusing it" it was the Eagles.. not the Patriots or Indy. As for Goodell putting the kaibosh on it, I don't think so. I think it has more to do with the way the CBA has been going. In fact, one of the changes this year is that NLTBE bonuses hit the cap as soon as they are earned and not at the start of next year...

 

[VJCPatriot]

So the Pats traded Seymour for cap reasons? I thought they were under the cap, if just barely. IMO they cut Seymour loose so they'll have money to sign Wilfork to an extension.

Too bad the pick is in 2011 though. Or perhaps the Pats scouting department has targeted a prospect who will come out in 2011 draft??

 

[italia44]

Italia - he has it on his web site.. Its easy to look up..

If any team was "abusing it" it was the Eagles.. not the Patriots or Indy. As for Goodell putting the kaibosh on it, I don't think so. I think it has more to do with the way the CBA has been going. In fact, one of the changes this year is that NLTBE bonuses hit the cap as soon as they are earned and not at the start of next year...

thanks,DB......good info.

 

[patman12]

Too bad the pick is in 2011 though. Or perhaps the Pats scouting department has targeted a prospect who will come out in 2011 draft??

More likely that the FO sees 2011 having a rookie cap in place to make a high pick of greater value.

 

[shmessy]

So the Pats traded Seymour for cap reasons? I thought they were under the cap, if just barely. IMO they cut Seymour loose so they'll have money to sign Wilfork to an extension.

Too bad the pick is in 2011 though. Or perhaps the Pats scouting department has targeted a prospect who will come out in 2011 draft??

"So the Pats traded Seymour for cap reasons? I thought they were under the cap, if just barely. IMO they cut Seymour loose so they'll have money to sign Wilfork to an extension."

Having cap space to sign Wilfork (and Mankins and Gostkowski, etc.) IS a cap reason. The Patriots don't have "money" issues". The have CAP issues going forward if they want to secure some of their good young free agents at the end of the year. If it was "money" you wouldn't have all these interviews from previously surly FA's coming here like Moss and Dillon who trip over themselves in interviews going on about the superb food, practice facilities, amenities, etc. provided by the "first class" organization.

"Too bad the pick is in 2011 though. Or perhaps the Pats scouting department has targeted a prospect who will come out in 2011 draft??"

Not a good idea to target anyone for 2011, since plenty will probably come out early in the uncapped 2010 year (which is great that the Pats have so many second rounders, btw!). The allure of the 2011 high first rounder (and, yes, it will be high folks) is the possibility of a rookie draft salary cap whcih would make high first rounders far more valuable and far more cap friendly - - that had actually been something working AGAINST the Detroits, Houston's etc.

 

[BradyManny]

I've been away, so I missed out on all these discussions, but I'll briefly just say I'm not sure how any Pat fan can be excited about this trade. I doubt Belichick is excited about this trade. The Raiders gave them an offer they couldn't refuse. But we are losing the best player on the defense, and a guy who is going to be tough to replace. I'm not exactly thrilled about it. I'd personally rather win now. You only have Brady & Moss for so long, once they're gone, it'll take a lot more than the Raiders 2011 1st rounder to keep this a SB contender.

The other thing is the over-valuing of first round picks. Every April, we scoff at getting one of these top 10 picks. They're overpaid, overhyped, we say. The Raiders & plenty of other teams have a top 10 pick every year, and look how far that's gotten them. Now we just shipped our best defender for one, so we love top 10 picks again...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I've been away, so I missed out on all these discussions, but I'll briefly just say I'm not sure how any Pat fan can be excited about this trade. I doubt Belichick is excited about this trade. The Raiders gave them an offer they couldn't refuse. But we are losing the best player on the defense, and a guy who is going to be tough to replace. I'm not exactly thrilled about it. I'd personally rather win now. You only have Brady & Moss for so long, once they're gone, it'll take a lot more than the Raiders 2011 1st rounder to keep this a SB contender.

The other thing is the over-valuing of first round picks. Every April, we scoff at getting one of these top 10 picks. They're overpaid, overhyped, we say. The Raiders & plenty of other teams have a top 10 pick every year, and look how far that's gotten them. Now we just shipped our best defender for one, so we love top 10 picks again...

Remember, a Top 10 pick in 2011 MAY be different ASSUMING that the putative Rookie Salary Cap gets into the new CBA as the owners intend.

My view...BB made the best of a looming bad situation assuming Sey indicated he wanted top dollar for his extention.

 

[shmessy]

The other thing is the over-valuing of first round picks. Every April, we scoff at getting one of these top 10 picks. They're overpaid, overhyped, we say. The Raiders & plenty of other teams have a top 10 pick every year, and look how far that's gotten them. Now we just shipped our best defender for one, so we love top 10 picks again...

It's been pretty well covered on this board why 2011 may have a completely different cap slotting rule for 1st round draft picks. This new system is being established precisely for the reasons you stated above.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The Raiders gave them an offer they couldn't refuse. But we are losing the best player on the defense, and a guy who is going to be tough to replace. I'm not exactly thrilled about it. I'd personally rather win now.

I wouldnt say he's out best player on D, I would say Wilfork's better and Mayo will probablty be better. Why cant we win now without RS, we were 12-2 in the 14 games he missed, its a team game and I would think BB thinks he has the horses to cover the loss of RS.

The other thing is the over-valuing of first round picks. Every April, we scoff at getting one of these top 10 picks. They're overpaid, overhyped, we say. The Raiders & plenty of other teams have a top 10 pick every year, and look how far that's gotten them. Now we just shipped our best defender for one, so we love top 10 picks again...

Looks like there might be a rookie salaray cap by then, if not we can always trade down, I dont think BB doesnt like top ten picks, I just think he's rather trade down and get value.

 

[BradyManny]

Remember, a Top 10 pick in 2011 MAY be different ASSUMING that the putative Rookie Salary Cap gets into the new CBA as the owners intend.

My view...BB made the best of a looming bad situation assuming Sey indicated he wanted top dollar for his extention.

While that's a great point - I'd counter with I still don't think giving up one season of Seymour's services is worth that top 10 pick. We don't have a player who can step in and play to his level. Is a top 10 pick worth potentially losing a chance at winning the Super Bowl? That's basically how I'm viewing it.