Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[slash83]

Lol Ok! Thank You

lol its all good man

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow, I say a guy didn't live up to expectations and you'd think I said he was the worst player in the league the way the fanboys come out.

You are talking out your ass and getting called on it. Not only that, you've vehemently have refused to say what the expectations should have been.. You are being plain stupid to be calling people fanboys when you were the one making the assinine comments.

Seymour is a great player, I never said otherwise. My original comment about him not fully living up to expectations was something that drew out all types of random factoids about the guy being the best DE currently playing in a 3-4 system, and I simply said that was a flawed way to look at it.

He's not the best DE in the league. If you put Peppers in a 3-4, i'm sure he'll quickly be the best 3-4 DE in the league, which proves the argument is stupid and arbitrary.

The only person who is looking at anything flawed seems to be you. You are the one who doesn't understand the differences between a DE in a 4-3 system and a DE in the 3-4 system. On any team but the Patriots, Seymour moves inside to DT in the 4-3.

As for your claim that Peppers would become the best DE in the 3-4, no he wouldn't. If the Pats added Peppers, he's either be a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB. Peppers would NOT be a 3-4 DE. He's just not big enough to play the position.

I guess the mistake on my part was saying expectations since that's another arbitrary argument. Everyone expects different things from different people. As I can see from some people here, I guess they expected him to be the best 3-4 DE in the league, and they are likely right. I was hoping he'd be a type of DE who could be the best or near the best regardless of how he's lined up as.

Seymour, up through 2005, was the best Defensive Lineman in the league. From 2006 to current, He's not been as good because injuries hampered him..

Understanding the differences between the 3-4 and the 4-3 will go a long way to you understanding why your statements make you look foolish.

 

[dtbrks]

huh.. i have mixed feelings about the trade. I hate to see him go as I also feel this years D will suffer, at least during the beginning of the season. Then again, the team got a first round pick for someone who would have left after this year anyway.

Good luck to him and thanks for the memories Big Sey.

 

[DaBruinz]

Right here shows what i'm dealing with. If you think me stating he never really fully lived up to expectations as 'trashing' him, than you are extremely sensitive and getting way too defensive about it.

I've been nothing but complimentary towards Seymour aside from me stating that opinion about him, yet i'm trashing him?

Yes. To put it simply. You are trashing the guy by saying he didn't live up to expectations and refusing to say what those expectations were.

Then, you proceeded to show that you don't know the difference between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DE because you clearly think that they have the same job when they don't. I won't even ask if you understand the difference between a single gap and a two gap system since you don't understnad the differences in positions.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

Uh oh, Borges agrees with the move-

"He wasn't coming back here next year. They weren't going to pay him what he knew he could get elsewhere," Borges said of Seymour. "If you look at it that way, from purely business, the Patriots did the right thing."

Then, business as usual-

"We're going to find out if the genius is still a genius or if he's tapped out."

 

[sanvara]

Poor Seymour. He goes from one of the elite teams to the gutter and with a senile and crazy owner too.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Seymour was great while he was here.........I think the trade was a shrewd move......the only thing that scares me is where seymour might wind up after the 2009 season........there are a few places where it would bother me:
jets
steelers
dolphins
chargers

 

[convertedpatsfan]

This seems to confirm that we're moving to a 4-3 as our base, though any BB defense will change depending on opponent.

If that's the case, then Burgess will probably move back to DE, where he is a lot more comfortable, and hopefully more effective than he's shown so far (I know it's still early).

So if Burgess starts or plays a lot compared to his pass-rush specialist OLB role, that makes the price we paid (3rd and a4th (which can become a 5th) a much better value. All of which makes me think BB had some thoughts of moving to a 4-3 very early on.

We can argue the pros and cons of this deal for the Pats, but what the heck were the Raiders thinking? It makes me think BB called them about it rather than the other way around.

 

[slash83]

Seymour was great while he was here.........I think the trade was a shrewd move......the only thing that scares me is where seymour might wind up after the 2009 season........there are a few places where it would bother me:
jets
steelers
dolphins
chargers

why not the patriots lol

 

[BradyFTW!]

Uh oh, Borges agrees with the move-


Then, business as usual-

Of course Borges agrees with the move: after all, Seymour is too tall to play DT and to slow to play DE, and could muster only one sack in the pass-happy SEC. What a bum.

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do, but thanks for the lesson.

I also understand how good Seymour is, but no matter what is said, I won't be able to agree he has fully lived up to expectations. Has he been a great DE, especially in the Patriots system? Yes. I've been a huge fan of his, so don't make it seem like i'm bashing the guy.

Maybe I just expect more out of the 6th overall pick than others do.

I'm sorry, but no, you haven't proven you understand what a 3-4 DE in the 2 GAP system is supposed to do. In fact, on the contrary, you've only shown you don't know what a 3-4 DE in a 2 gap system is supposed to do. And your attempt at comparing him to all DEs in the league left so much to be desired that you seriously should be billed by everyone for subjecting us to it.

So, for you to say that you "understand how good Seymour is" but claiming that he didn't meet expect is BS.

What are your expectations of a #6 overall pick? The guy was the, arguably, the best defensive lineman from 2002 through 2005, and has been one of the best 3-4 DEs his entire career. What MORE can you ask for? What expectation didn't he meet?

 

[BradyFTW!]

why not the patriots lol

While that would never happen, it would legitimately be the most hilarious fleecing that one NFL team has ever pulled on another one. I honestly think that that would kill Al Davis.

BTW, wasn't it just a few months ago that Al Davis said that he would never deal with the Patriots again? Odd...

 

[DaBruinz]

i dont know why they would trade seymour for a first round pick in 2011 ?

even if they play the 4-3 full time they dont have the pass rushing DE they need to play a 4-3 will they move AD to DE with burgess and wilfork and brace playing DT ?

i just dont see why you would trade your best passrusher when your not a good passrushing team to start with

Seymour isn't the best 4-3 pass rusher. He may be the best 3-4 pass rusher. But the 4-3 is going to be the predominant base this year.

 

[Tunescribe]

Poor Seymour. He goes from one of the elite teams to the gutter and with a senile and crazy owner too.

I'd like to know: did Seymour at any point turn down a chance to negotiate a deal that would've been cap friendly and kept him here long-term?

 

[DaBruinz]

The bottom line is that the 2009 and 2010 teams will be worse and the 2011 and 2012 teams will be better.

Did you become clairvoyant, MG? How can you say that both the 2009 and 2010 teams will be worse?

Also, considering that Seymour wasn't likely to be part of the team in 2010, how can you say that team is also going to be worse?

 

[DaBruinz]

You're assuming that Seymour would have a monster year playing DT and DE in the 4-3 and DE in the 3-4.

Yes, and a monster year by an all-pro DE might be the difference between a playoff team and a SB team.

 

[mgteich]

Look, we only deal is probabilities and likelihoods. If you believe that the 2009 patriots are better off without Seymour, you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

With regard to 2010, Seymour could have been transitioned or franchised. If that were done, we would either have had Seymour's services for 2010 or a draft pick from another team that wanted his services. The 2010 team would have been better off in either case.

Did you become clairvoyant, MG? How can you say that both the 2009 and 2010 teams will be worse?

Also, considering that Seymour wasn't likely to be part of the team in 2010, how can you say that team is also going to be worse?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Did you become clairvoyant, MG? How can you say that both the 2009 and 2010 teams will be worse?

Also, considering that Seymour wasn't likely to be part of the team in 2010, how can you say that team is also going to be worse?

Not sure where he got 2010, since Seymour would have been gone anyways (unless he's assuming franchising him), but 2009 is pretty simple.

For 2009, the Patriots gave up Richard Seymour and got $3.3M in cap space. Whatever they do with that $3.3M won't do more for them than Seymour. The real question is whether the short-term loss is worth the long-term gain.

 

[mgteich]

First, it was another poster who thought that Seymour would have a monster year for us and that Belichick had done the right thing. I was responding to his analysis.

I do believe that Seymour is a major talent and a smart guy. I think that he would have been a major contributer in his contract year. But, you are correct. It is a bit over the top to predict a monster year in Belichick's brand new revamped 2009 defense.

You're assuming that Seymour would have a monster year playing DT and DE in the 4-3 and DE in the 3-4.

 

[mgteich]

franchise and play or franchise and trade
Either way, we would have had value in 2010.

Not sure where he got 2010, since Seymour would have been gone anyways (unless he's assuming franchising him), but 2009 is pretty simple.

For 2009, the Patriots gave up Richard Seymour and got $3.3M in cap space. Whatever they do with that $3.3M won't do more for them than Seymour. The real question is whether the short-term loss is worth the long-term gain.