Patriots Slot Corner

[Sciz]

The two realistic options that I see are Bodden and Dowling with McCourty in the slot and McCourty and Bodden with Arrington in the slot.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

As a Virginia fan, I was surprised when the Pats picked RiD so high. He was good as a junior, and projected to be a good senior, but missed the year with injuries. There was a lot of hope about how good he would be as a senior but he wasn't that consistent as a junior. So I was pleasantly surprised.

The Groh system was the same but Groh and that staff were pretty bad college coaches.

In sum, I wouldn't say that RiD is coming out of Virginia with a preparation advantage, given the poor coaching and missed senior season.

Don't talk to me about bad coaching. I got to watch Rich Rodriguez destroy the winningest college program in only 3 years.

But that's an interesting observation. I wonder if this is a similar case to Gronk where BB felt he was getting a potential 1st-rounder at a discount because of the injuries.

Groh may not be a great coach, but I'm sure he was able to give BB some insights on Dowling.

 

[mgteich]

1) Our system is difficult to learn. Dowling projects to be a starting safety or a starting corner, not to being a nickel back. My hope is to see Dowling start at safety in 2012.

2) We have three players to share the nickel and dime corner positions: Wilhite, Butler and Arrington. Everyone seems to think that it is a good idea to convert to Arrington nickel instead of simply thinking of him as the #3 corner and dime back. My GUESS is that Butler is the one with the fewest reps, although it could be any of the three.

3) I don't think that Chung is a very good nickel. I'd perfer Sanders to Chung. My real preference is not to have our corners be healthy and good enough to play the various corner position.

4) I like our safeties. We have Sanders, Meriweather, Chung, Page and now Dowling. If Dowling looks good in camp, Belichick could consider trading one of the others.

BOTTOM LINE

We have a solid group of TEN defensive backs without even considering the special teamers. If you don't like a couple of them, consider that they are our #9 and #10!
Unless there is a trade or an injury guys like Brown, Barrett, Lockett and Williams will have a difficult time making the squad. However, this is a pretty good group of guys hoping to be our #10 defensive back.

 

[BradyFTW!]

At this point in the offseason, my guess would be that Butler will end up playing in that role, but it's pretty much impossible to say right now.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bodden and McCourty have the edge as the two starters on the outside. Dowling, Butler, Wilhite and Arrington are 4 players who'll battle for nickel and dime spots. Whoever does best in training camp and exhibition games. I don't see any particular one of the four with a leg up at this time.

 

[RayClay]

I still think Dowling ends up at safety. Still leaves us with two excellent starters and Arrington or Wilhite in the slot and Butler pushing to define his role. Still a strong group with Dowling at S.

I like Arrington, obviously for his play last year and Wilhite as a nickel, not as a starting corner.

Having three (Butler?) who can start in a pinch is a lot better than most teams.

 

[cstjohn17]

Tough question, depending on the opponent and their personnel I could see Chung getting reps against a TE that is a primary slot receiver.

I could also see Bodden or McCourty shifting inside to play 1:1 against the slot (with some LB help), Ras Dowling or Arrington could play outside with Safety help.

If Ras Dowling turns out to be a player the Patriots have a ton of talent in the secondary.
1st round - McCourty, Merriweather
2nd round - Butler, Chung, Ras Dowling

Plus Bodden, Sanders

 

[strngplyr]

Tough question, depending on the opponent and their personnel I could see Chung getting reps against a TE that is a primary slot receiver.

I could also see Bodden or McCourty shifting inside to play 1:1 against the slot (with some LB help), Ras Dowling or Arrington could play outside with Safety help.

If Ras Dowling turns out to be a player the Patriots have a ton of talent in the secondary.
1st round - McCourty, Merriweather
2nd round - Butler, Chung, Ras Dowling

Plus Bodden, Sanders

Draft Position doesn't make them good. It means we have a lot invested into the secondary. We know what McCourty and Bodden can do. Chung probably has the most unseen potential, Merriweather is ...he needs to do the job he's told to do and I think we'd like him a lot more. Sanders is dependable and I'd like to see what Dowling is capable of.

I don't see Butler on the team.

 

[Isaac]

Nice thread.

I am curious about how good McCourty would be in the slot, he is so good outside. Everyone looks worse in the slot, so I'm sure he'd be beaten more often, but it would give him a chance to blitz and such. If Bodden and Dowling, in time, are the 2nd and 3rd best corners on the team, then perhaps McCourty spends a lot of time inside, we'll see. Of course it's a match-up thing to some degree, but you also want your best players on the field.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I think the 3rd CB might be either Butler or Arrington. Arrington has good straight line speed and is a good run supporting CB. Butler is better vs shifty WR's. Like few of you guys have said on this thread, it might come down to matchups.
Since the Pats do run a lot of Cover 3, I would love Rash to be the 3rd Safety covering the flats. That way, he serves as a CB and a safety.

I would like to see McCourty inside while Bodden and Rash/Arrington on the outside too.

Btw, will upload a Butler (Bengals and Jets games) in 30 mins. I'm working on a McCourty 2010 season videos (all games minus Detriot). Will try to do a Kyle Arrington 2010 video and a Butler and Wilhite videos if I have the time.

 

[jmt57]

I wasn't enamored with Chung's coverage skills last year in nickel situations, so I'm hesitant to hand him the slot corner position as his to lose. Let's leave him him where he is best suited, at safety.

As of this moment McCourty and Bodden are the two top corners as Deus and others have pointed out; I don't think there is much of any debate in that regard.

In other years I would have suggested Dowling as the slot corner, but due to the lockout, no OTA's, and perhaps a delayed and/or shortened training camp, I'm not going to count on him for quite that much this year. Hopefully he will surprise us, just like McCourty did last year - but for right now, my own expectations are tempered.

That leaves Arrington, Wilhite and Butler. I thought based on what he did well (and not so well) last season, Arrington has the best chance to excel as a slot corner. By that I mean the type of routes he defended well, and the ones he did not do so well against - and which of those routes would be most similar to what he could expect to see as a slot corner.

As a slot corner Arrington would very seldom be chasing a bigger, faster player thirty yards down the field (his weakest part of his 2010 game). However, I thought what he was pretty good at was sticking like glue for five or ten yards from the line of scrimmage - and that is what you want from a defensive back covering a slot receiver.

Of course, the wild card in all of this - as we saw last year - is that nasty thing called an injury. A year ago at this time I thought the Pats were overloaded at cornerback, and before I knew it the team was extremely short handed. So for right now I'm glad the Pats have the number of options that they have, and in a season that looks as if it will have minimal preparation, I'm glad the Pats have as many players as they do with at least one full year's worth of experience.

 

[jsull87]

In my opinion the best result for the patriots is Butler growing into his role and taking the slkot corner possition and Ras I beating Arrington out for 4th. That way we will have our most athletically gifted secondary on the field. I think having Butler/McCourty in the slot at points is a very interesting thing for some of the blitzes we could run e.g Greenbay with Woodson. Once again we did say that Butler would be a stud e.t.c out of college so we have to temper our expectations for Ras I but I have more of a 2 year plan for him hoping he takes over from butler and even Bodden by next year, which would be a great sign for our secondary.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Butler (Bengals, Jets)
YouTube - ‪No. 28 Darius Butler (Bengals, Jets) 2010‬‏

 

[Fencer]

The two realistic options that I see are Bodden and Dowling with McCourty in the slot and McCourty and Bodden with Arrington in the slot.

That's what I was thinking, although perhaps with a gentler word than "realistic", in that I haven't given up all hope for the alternatives.

Anyhow, I imagine BB hopes his three best corners will be McCourty, Bodden, and Dowling, and of the three, McCourty would go to the slot.

 

[randomk1]

One things for certain....i don't want Chung or Butler doing it.

Arrington could be decent in there,a better fit than he was at outside. Maybe even Bodden with Dowling on the outside?

We're loaded at DB...it will be interesting to see how this will work out.

 

[randomk1]

That's what I was thinking, although perhaps with a gentler word than "realistic", in that I haven't given up all hope for the alternatives.

Anyhow, I imagine BB hopes his three best corners will be McCourty, Bodden, and Dowling, and of the three, McCourty would go to the slot.

McCourty? The guy that looks to be our future shutdown corner would go play the slot?

Wtf are you smoking?

It's like the Jets moving Revis to cover the slot man and leaving Andre Johnson alone.

McCourty stays where the **** he is at and battling opposing #1's.

 

[townes]

The Key word here is MATCHUPS, and that is a week to week thing. I think if we do we will have to take care to try an NOT create hard and fast labels for the players, because they all bring certain skill sets to the table. A series of skill sets that we haven't seen in this kind of Depth for a long time.

That being said. If we were looking at the slot CB position as the guy who is likely to cover the Wes Welker type WR, then I'm looking for Butler to be the guy. He has all the skills and in a "matchup" situation I think he will thrive in that role. Most of Butler's problems, IMHO, came when he was matched up against bigger stronger WRs like Braylon Edwards. He doesn't play physical enough, at least to date, to effectively cover those guys. HOWEVER, if you can match him up on a smaller less physical guy, he SHOULD do a lot better.

Dowling, Boddin, and McCourty should be your outside the hash CBs. However when you get a team that puts a "bigger" WR in the slot, like Miami does at times with Marshall, the Dowling would be the obvious choice.

People are writing off Butler much too quickly. Too often last season he was asked to do what he physically wasn't capable of doing. Now the Pats are deep enough in the secondary, adding Boddin and Dowling to the mix, so that you can "matchup" Butler against people he CAN cover.

Also, the Pats are perhaps a bit lucky with this lockout thing, since 3 of their top 4 picks play positions that are among the easiest to play right out of the box, in CB and RB

Thanks for the thread

Pretty much how i see it. McCourty and Bodden start with Dowling just learning the roles he will have to play in coming years. Butler will be the primary slot cover for Welker type receivers, however they will change up when teams have big WR's in the slot or quicker receiving TE's, then Chung or Meriweather will get the nod.

This secondary has a ton of potential and could very well develop into one of the best secondaries in football for the long haul. If Butler can turn it around and Dowling pans out they will be all set for a long time. And even if one turns into a player they are still in really good shape overall.

 

[supafly]

McCourty? The guy that looks to be our future shutdown corner would go play the slot?

Wtf are you smoking?

It's like the Jets moving Revis to cover the slot man and leaving Andre Johnson alone.

McCourty stays where the **** he is at and battling opposing #1's.

I definitely agree, although we don't have to be so harsh to our good friend Fencer, do we?

I too think that DMcC skills are best left to where he's at. I think he was just saying that out of the three, it certainly wouldn't be Bodden or Dowling either. In other words, out of the 3 of them, DMcC is the one who would be 'best suited' of the three to play slot.

I think that it's much better just leaving him where he's at though, as I agree with you--why mess with a good thing?

 

[supafly]

In other years I would have suggested Dowling as the slot corner.

I agree with your thinking on Chung. Let's let him play safety. Unless he ends up covering the slot in the big nickle situations, I'd rather see him back there where he's best suited and comfortable. He hasn't exactly showed us much in the coverage ability area anyway, so Chung in the slot does not make me too confident heading towards the future.

In regards to Dowling, from what I understand, his skill set is one that would have him play outside, and not inside slot.

Of course, I do not pretend to be an expert, so I could be wrong. After reading many scouting reports etc, it seems as though his size and past experience in press man coverage would allow him to be better suited for the outside. That said, I do expect him to get some blended in rookie reps in sub packages throughout the yr, so we'll see how it ends up.

That leaves a competition between Arrington, Butler, and possibly Wilhite--although I have a feeling we will only keep 5, meaning that Wilhite could very well be the odd man out.

 

[supafly]

One things for certain....i don't want Chung or Butler doing it.

Arrington could be decent in there,a better fit than he was at outside. Maybe even Bodden with Dowling on the outside?

We're loaded at DB...it will be interesting to see how this will work out.

No, Bodden couldn't do as well playing slot either. It's along the same thinking as Dowling. Both of those guys are 'bigger' type CB's, as they are both 6'1" or so (approximately). When you have size like that it makes the role of the smaller, quick-shifting slot CB's a lot harder, simply because it does not play anywhere near their strengths.

Dowling apparently hasn't even ever played at slot CB, due to this specific reason.

I think you're on to something with Arrington or Butler. I think we keep 5, and Butler and Wilhite battle it out for the last CB spot, with the nod going to Butler. If he could do okay there this yr, we'd be set up nicely.