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Patriots offense has become far too scheme heavy

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tonyto3690, Feb 16, 2013.

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  1. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    Brady has admitted himself that it's impossible for a rookie receiver to come in and contribute because the scheme is so complex. That was years ago and from how I see it, the scheme has only gotten more difficult to grasp. We've seen guys with good enough athleticism, route running and hands to be at least capable receivers completely flame out.

    However, one can make the very valid argument "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Having the #3 offense of all time points in Belichicks favor. HOWEVER, as we saw in the Ravens game, the first 3 quarters of the Niners game, and so on, this team lives and dies by Brady playing perfectly. If he doesn't execute and throw perfect passes the entire game against a decent defense, we are completely cooked.

    In the AFCCG the closest thing we had to a matchup advantage was Hernandez who has shown all season once you hit him, he will drop everything. Without Gronk our team can't enforce it's will on anyone and just physically dominate a team like we saw in the dynasty years. Those offenses had Deion Branch as their best playmaker, yet we could just push people around and beat them up.

    Welker, Woodhead and 2013 Branch are not going to ever be able to do that.

    I think we've seen the staff be more cognizant of this the last few years with Vollmer, Solder, Gronk all beefing up the run game, but we still don't have an outside receiver who can dominate a corner on physical ability. Welker's role is not that and asking him to be that is too much for someone his size.

    For years I very forcefully denied the belief we need a big time receiver, and I still do to a degree. However we absolutely, positively need a guy who can "go up and get it" on the outside and get us big plays and easy points.

    Stolen from another forum, but does anyone find it funny that Belichick's defense is predicated on "don't give up the big play, make them grind out 5 first downs to score and let them make mistakes" and then on offense his philosophy appears to be "make Brady churn out first downs, make it as difficult as possible on Brady, and force Brady to play perfect for us to score". Obviously that's not how he would word it but that is what our offense has become. It's become "Brady needs to play perfect every snap of the entire game against any team that is even close to on par with us or we lose the game".

    The load needs to be taken off Brady. I saw Flacco close his eyes and throw up prayers at least 3 times in the SB. If that were Brady they would likely have turned into interceptions, but instead Boldin went up and got it and made Flacco look great.

    Some of the load needs to be taken off Brady on offense. Gronkowski healthy will certainly help, but instead of bringing in loads of smaller guys who can fit the scheme, we should pursue guys who are physically dominant and can play bigger than the scheme.

    EDIT:
    As a mild tangent as I'm sure Welker will be brought up:
    Welker's talent is high enough to override some of the things I've said. He's an elite receiver and saying we're better without him in a vaccuum is folly. However given the salary cap, his age, contract demands, etc. we are better off moving on from him and finding someone who maybe can't keep up with all the scheme complexities but can just physically dominant an opposing CB so it doesn't matter the scheme if he can just get open deep.
     
  2. eagle eye

    eagle eye In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Patriots had the no.1 offense in football this past regular season. If its not broken don't fix it imo.
     
  3. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yeah.....no
     
  4. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    There is some (some) truth to this. Not a lot, but some:

    It's not the Patriots are too scheme heavy (it works, how is that 'too' scheme heavy?) it's just that when all the nice tricks clever plays disappear the team doesn't have tight margin hard nosed football in it. No big players to jump over coverage and no fast players to burn safeties.

    I've been thinking that the Patriots are probably covering flaws in their offense with these nifty schemes to great success, which allows them to spend high picks on defense and line players to 'rebuild' the foundation.

    It's not easy to win this game. If the Patriots had gone and taken a high round WR two years ago, the team would've had nobody to take over from Matt Light except gimpy Vollmer.

    If they had picked one last year, we would've had a hole at LB or even less pass rush than we had last year.

    People who complain about the Patriots not spending on glitzy offense picks with high picks don't realize the team would've been in an even worse spot had it not concentrated it's drafts on some of the fundamental building block positions we have today. Solder, Ridley, Jones, Hightower, McCourty, etc are all more important than a WR who may or may not have even worked out here.
     
  5. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    Someone similar to Boldin would help out a lot imo! Especially if Gronk goes down.

    It's possible to turn Gronk or Hernandez into more of that role, and put Ballard in the starting lineup. Of course Lloyd and Welker (or his replacement) have roles as well.
     
  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why does it matter unless the refs want us to win?
     
  7. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    As far as scheme goes, there is some truth to it.

    The Pats defense needs to be upgraded and adding someone like a Boldin would be very hard to beat!
     
  8. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    People over-analyze the offensive struggles in the last two playoff losses.

    The reason is simple: Gronkowski was hurt...
     
  9. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    :D

    Very true! Kraft better pay the mob more $. Beeotch shoddy (Ravens owner) must have payed them a lot!
     
  10. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    And having someone like a Boldin to use in his place is the simple answer. :rolleyes:

    Who in the draft is most like Boldin?
     
  11. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    These universally good WRs cost more money and higher picks than the scheme fits. Where are you cutting resources in order to get better WRs?
     
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Does anyone have a link on this? I recall a rookie QB stepping in as a WR for a couple of games and contributing.....
     
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots won the 2011 AFCCG despite Brady having a horrible game, so this theory doesn't hold water.
     
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Welker's a matchup advantage in every game he plays. As far as the AFCCG goes, Welker had 8 receptions (2nd on the team) and 117 yards (most on the team), while scoring the team's only TD
     
  15. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Add to that the inability to keep brady clean going back to that miserable SB in the stinkin desert.

    When defenses play a certain style against our "O" - we are stooped cold, giants, ravens and jets (one time). Of course having a really good "D" as the giants and ravens did during those losses helped them.
     
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those defenses didn't play the same style.
    Since the game the Jets supposedly created the 'blueprint' we have scored 30,37,29,49 against them.
    If 'every time a team plays that style we are stopped cold' why did the Jets decided to stop playing that style so they could lose 4 straight and allow 36.3 ppg against us?
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Pats offense is broken vs good defenses.

    SF, Balt, Sea, NYG pretty much have their way with the NE offense.
     
  18. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    This exact thread was made literally 2 weeks ago. Anyway I agree on Welker given the salary cap, but I'm softening up on that because I don't think the front office will go pay anyone 10 million outside of the system. Anyway I doubt the goal this offseason is to add a guy who doesn't play within the scheme. The goal is to find someone who can play within it and make plays in it.

    Goal this offseason should be to add play makers.
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Pats offense is too dependent on certain personnel. If Gronk is on pace for 17 TDs in a season and is hurt or is neutralized by the other team the Pats have nobody to make up for the loss.

    It never used to be that way.

    Defenses could take away Branch but they could not prevent the Pats from putting up points. In 2003, NE didnt have a 1000 yard Rusher, a 1000 yard Receiver or a player with double digit TDs. 2003 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com Injuries were never an excuse and as BB says " thats why you have a team."

    Mike Vrabel used to catch TD passes.
     
  20. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    Everyone can try, only defenses with the right personnel can pull it off. And those defenses are usually pretty good.

    It is dependent on talent. See: 49ers, who had had decent coverage and amazing pressure up front until Justin Smith went down. And we all saw how far their D fell once Mankins gave him a boo boo.
     
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