OT: Coaching firings around the league

[patsfanfromoversea]

If you look at the #1 difference between 2021 when the offense- while not perfect but pretty good and 2022 which was one big dry heave Fat Matt and Judge were the additions, Josh the subtraction and Troy Brown the constant.

troy brown has to take responsibility as well because part of his job is to coach the WR the issues they had, they couldn't fix it all year.

 

[DaBruinz]

troy brown has to take responsibility as well because part of his job is to coach the WR the issues they had, they couldn't fix it all year.

@patfanken - Could you weigh in on this?

 

[jdlboot14]

It sounds like the best move for Matty P is what I suggested in early Jan - that he go take a HC job at a mid-level college program, and see if he can build back his reputation and record. I don't think anyone is going to hire him as a NFL coord. in the near future.
I actually feel bad for him, because last year was a stupid decision by BB, but even dumber for MP. If he is indeed a rocket scientist, he should have been more discerning in his abilities and expertise and advised BB not to give him that job.

 

[mike_usagisan]

It sounds like the best move for Matty P is what I suggested in early Jan - that he go take a HC job at a mid-level college program, and see if he can build back his reputation and record. I don't think anyone is going to hire him as a NFL coord. in the near future.
I actually feel bad for him, because last year was a stupid decision by BB, but even dumber for MP. If he is indeed a rocket scientist, he should have been more discerning in his abilities and expertise and advised BB not to give him that job.

I don't know how he'd do recruiting. I think he should go be a position coach. Work his way back up.

 

[Brotherblues]

It sounds like the best move for Matty P is what I suggested in early Jan - that he go take a HC job at a mid-level college program, and see if he can build back his reputation and record. I don't think anyone is going to hire him as a NFL coord. in the near future.
I actually feel bad for him, because last year was a stupid decision by BB, but even dumber for MP. If he is indeed a rocket scientist, he should have been more discerning in his abilities and expertise and advised BB not to give him that job.

Reports right now are that he wants no part of being a background front office guy. He wants to coach, first and foremost. Putting the pieces together, this was probably true a year ago and that's why he eagerly took on the challenge of converting into an OC. Too bad there ain't mulligans irl, that's one decision Matt and Bill would like to have back.

Agree his best bet would be to coach in college. He has loads of experience in a variety of roles at the highest level. Some college out there would value that enough to bring him on.

 

[RobertWeathers]

troy brown has to take responsibility as well because part of his job is to coach the WR the issues they had, they couldn't fix it all year.

Maybe. We have no idea what % of that blame pie do you give him?

What we also don't know was how (un)involved was Troy? Did Fat Matt shut him out of the offense?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Reports right now are that he wants no part of being a background front office guy. He wants to coach, first and foremost. Putting the pieces together, this was probably true a year ago and that's why he eagerly took on the challenge of converting into an OC. Too bad there ain't mulligans irl, that's one decision Matt and Bill would like to have back.

Agree his best bet would be to coach in college. He has loads of experience in a variety of roles at the highest level. Some college out there would value that enough to bring him on.

He doesn't have the personality to recruit. He'll fail. Same as Charlie Weis at the college level.

 

[Brotherblues]

He doesn't have the personality to recruit. He'll fail. Same as Charlie Weis at the college level.

He could DC for some mid tier program. It's probably his only realistic option. He's just doing the rounds to see if an NFL team bites first, but that seems extremely unlikely at this point.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He could DC for some mid tier program. It's probably his only realistic option. He's just doing the rounds to see if an NFL team bites first, but that seems extremely unlikely at this point.

He'd have to adjust his standard of living then.

Alabama is looking for a new ILB coach. Might be too much of a step down....

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Maybe. We have no idea what % of that blame pie do you give him?

What we also don't know was how (un)involved was Troy? Did Fat Matt shut him out of the offense?

no idea what percentage, could be anything from 0-100, that's exactly why i replied to your post regarding popovich and wanted to know how you or in general someone is able to identify the influence of an position coach?
I mean esp. in last years offense it seems impossible but why has popovich showed nothing to be a keeper? Honest question because i do not know

 

[RobertWeathers]

no idea what percentage, could be anything from 0-100, that's exactly why i replied to your post regarding popovich and wanted to know how you or in general someone is able to identify the influence of an position coach?
I mean esp. in last years offense it seems impossible but why has popovich showed nothing to be a keeper? Honest question because i do not know

It's really a great question and an answer none of us have.

For instance we THINK Scar is a great o-line coach because we base it on testimonials, longevity, track record, line performance, etc.

In my view, the jury is out on guys like Popovitch, Caley etc because we don't have a enough data points.

 

[patfanken]

@patfanken - Could you weigh in on this?

Good coaches on ANY level will ALWAYS take none of the credit and all of the blame. If my team played sloppily and without discipline, I and my WHOLE staff didn't do enough to figure out how do it better that particular week. Of course that is the great mystery about coaching football. Sometimes you do A, B, and C during the week and the team comes out with great energy and discipline, yet sometimes you do the exact same thing the next week and it's a bloody mess. On the drive home you go over it all and try and figure out what wasn't I seeing. What wasn't I doing?

So YES, Troy has to take some of the blame for both how the WR's performed individually AND the weekly construction of the offensive game plan. Patricia took all the blame for the offense's limitations, but the end it's a collaborative effort and whether you have 4 assistants or 20, everyone gets a say and ideas are ALWAYS welcome.

There was a reason Jefferson was interviewed for the WR gig. People were NOT happy with the results, starting with Bill to the lowest QC guy. Sometimes you can just miss out on the playoffs on the last day and feel great about your team. This wasn't one of those.

Here are my questions that haven't been answered yet. Nice to have BOB on board, but since that announcement, only he and Klemm were added to the staff, IIRC. Every day I check PFT and notice this coach signed with that team all over the place and NONE of those coaches seem to be headed here. Seems like the Panthers have been hiring a coach a day for the past month.

I know Bill prefers a "smaller" staff but that is relative. Are we done already or what? I DO NOT want to see a tweet saying DeMarcus Covington is leaving.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Here are my questions that haven't been answered yet. Nice to have BOB on board, but since that announcement, only he and Klemm were added to the staff, IIRC. Every day I check PFT and notice this coach signed with that team all over the place and NONE of those coaches seem to be headed here. Seems like the Panthers have been hiring a coach a day for the past month.

I know Bill prefers a "smaller" staff but that is relative. Are we done already or what? I DO NOT want to see a tweet saying DeMarcus Covington is leaving.

They added OBrien staffer Will Lawing as well. He coached TEs w/ the Texans under BOB so that means he'll replace Caley's function last year with the team.

Their offensive staff is pretty much set

OC/QBs - BOB
OL- Klemm
TE- Lawing
WR- Troy
RB- Sunseri

 

[patfanken]

They added OBrien staffer Will Lawing as well. He coached TEs w/ the Texans under BOB so that means he'll replace Caley's function last year with the team.

Their offensive staff is pretty much set

OC/QBs - BOB
OL- Klemm
TE- Lawing
WR- Troy
RB- Sunseri

Interesting that you just listed a 5 man offensive staff, almost immediately after I just read on PFT and article listing the 22 coaches that Houston hired to service in Ryan's staff.

Now I'm sure there will be other guys listed like an assistant OL coach and someone else to bring that number to around 7, so we are still going to be short staffed compared to other teams. But then you have to ask, do you REALLY need 1 coach for every 3 players. Think about it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting that you just listed a 5 man offensive staff, almost immediately after I just read on PFT and article listing the 22 coaches that Houston hired to service in Ryan's staff.

Now I'm sure there will be other guys listed like an assistant OL coach and someone else to bring that number to around 7, so we are still going to be short staffed compared to other teams. But then you have to ask, do you REALLY need 1 coach for every 3 players. Think about it.

22 seems like a lot but what do I know.

I think Yates is still part of the op and as you say there are your quality control/interns doing coach-type things. I don't think they'll bring in a dedicated QB coach to replace Judge as it seems that is BOB.

 

[Sciz]

Interesting that you just listed a 5 man offensive staff, almost immediately after I just read on PFT and article listing the 22 coaches that Houston hired to service in Ryan's staff.

Now I'm sure there will be other guys listed like an assistant OL coach and someone else to bring that number to around 7, so we are still going to be short staffed compared to other teams. But then you have to ask, do you REALLY need 1 coach for every 3 players. Think about it.

It was 9 offensive coaches last year, and so far we have 3 additions and either 2 or 3 departures (we don’t know if Judge will work with the offense at all). That list of 5 was missing the four assistant level offensive coaches (and there’s currently no news on any of them).

The Texans also have a “Chief of Staff” and an “Assistant to the Coaches,” which don’t sound like actual coaches. It would be like the Patriots listing Berj on their coaching roster.

 

[DaBruinz]

Good coaches on ANY level will ALWAYS take none of the credit and all of the blame. If my team played sloppily and without discipline, I and my WHOLE staff didn't do enough to figure out how do it better that particular week. Of course that is the great mystery about coaching football. Sometimes you do A, B, and C during the week and the team comes out with great energy and discipline, yet sometimes you do the exact same thing the next week and it's a bloody mess. On the drive home you go over it all and try and figure out what wasn't I seeing. What wasn't I doing?

So YES, Troy has to take some of the blame for both how the WR's performed individually AND the weekly construction of the offensive game plan. Patricia took all the blame for the offense's limitations, but the end it's a collaborative effort and whether you have 4 assistants or 20, everyone gets a say and ideas are ALWAYS welcome.

There was a reason Jefferson was interviewed for the WR gig. People were NOT happy with the results, starting with Bill to the lowest QC guy. Sometimes you can just miss out on the playoffs on the last day and feel great about your team. This wasn't one of those.

Here are my questions that haven't been answered yet. Nice to have BOB on board, but since that announcement, only he and Klemm were added to the staff, IIRC. Every day I check PFT and notice this coach signed with that team all over the place and NONE of those coaches seem to be headed here. Seems like the Panthers have been hiring a coach a day for the past month.

I know Bill prefers a "smaller" staff but that is relative. Are we done already or what? I DO NOT want to see a tweet saying DeMarcus Covington is leaving.

While I hear what you are saying in regards to what is supposed to happen with the offensive staff, I'm not so sure that DID happen with Patricia based on what we heard about the disfunction and with what was going on with Judge. But I do appreciate your insight.

Jefferson was interviewed for the OC gig as far as I know. Certain people on HERE hoped that Jefferson would be brought in the way that Klemm was for the O-line, but that was just THEIR speculation.

Besides BOB and Klemm, they hired Will Lawing to be the TE coach to replace Caley.

Report: Patriots Hire Alabama’s Will Lawing, Joining O’Brien

The young coach has spent the past nine years working with the new Patriots OC.After hiring Bill O’Brien as their offensive coordinator, the Patriots continue to fill out their offensive coaching staff. ESPN’s Mike Reiss reports New England is hiring Will Lawing away from Alabama, joining...

www.krqe.com

Of note: the Pats staff was involved in both the Shrine Game AND the Senior Bowl.

The Pats had 3 Offensive Assts PLUS Yates last year. That's the most asst. Coaches I remember them having in awhile.

Whether or not Rothstein sticks around if Patricia leaves is anyone's guess.
The Patriots Coaching staff last year had:

9 Coaches on the Offensive Side
6 Coaches on the Defensive Side
2 Special Teams Coaches
2 Strength and Conditioning Coaches.

Subtractions:
Matt Patricia - OC/OL
Joe Judge (QB)
Nick Caley (TE)

Additions:
Bill O'Brien (OC/QB)
Adrian Klemm (OL)
Will Lawing (TE)

 

[DaBruinz]

They added OBrien staffer Will Lawing as well. He coached TEs w/ the Texans under BOB so that means he'll replace Caley's function last year with the team.

Their offensive staff is pretty much set

OC/QBs - BOB
OL- Klemm
TE- Lawing
WR- Troy
RB- Sunseri

Here are the 4 Assts that were with the Offense last year. No idea if they are being brought back.
Billy Yates - Asst. O-line
Evan Rothstein - Offensive Asst.
Ross Douglas - Asst. WR Coach.
Tyler Huges - Offensive Asst.

 

[DaBruinz]

Interesting that you just listed a 5 man offensive staff, almost immediately after I just read on PFT and article listing the 22 coaches that Houston hired to service in Ryan's staff.

Now I'm sure there will be other guys listed like an assistant OL coach and someone else to bring that number to around 7, so we are still going to be short staffed compared to other teams. But then you have to ask, do you REALLY need 1 coach for every 3 players. Think about it.

22 isn't all that much considering the Patriots have 19.

Did the article you mention state whether the Texans did a COMPLETE over-haul or whether they kept some people from the previous staff?

 

[captain stone]

He'd have to adjust his standard of living then.

Alabama is looking for a new ILB coach. Might be too much of a step down....

If I were him, I'd take that step down in a heart-beat... Programs like Alabama's are below only those of NFL teams, and are gateways into the league.