No Proof that PATs Cheated

[pats_ftw!!1!]

Sorry but that is like saying purchasing a gun is murder... No we didn't cheat, thanks

ummm what??

 

[Metaphors]

I'm not in denial, the patriots ATTEMPTED to cheat. However the tape was taken before they had a chance to use it. Just like in highschool, if you made a cheat sheet for the test but had it taken away before hand and still passed the test, you didn't cheat, you ATTEMPTED to cheat

Please don't try to help...

 

[emoney_33]

ummm what??

It is not agianst any rule to tape coaches, it isn't even a rule what you can do with such tape. The rule is you cannot tape ANYTHING from certain places, one being... on the field/sideline.

ummm what??

 

[JR4]

honestly, im sure you love the pats and all, but how do you not see a correlation between breaking the rules in this fashion and cheating? now im not saying it is as big of deal as the media is making it out to be, but it is still cheating.

Ok how about this.
Your about to take a test in school. You make up a cheat sheet and
tape it to your arm. The you go take the test.
But for what ever reason you never look at the cheat sheet while you
are taking the test.

You broke the rules but you didn't cheat.
Breaking rules doesn't correlate to cheating. You need to get an advantage
from breaking the rules to be a cheat.
Breaking the rules is only half way to cheating.

 

[Sunqueen212]

Well....considering that Krafty and BB are paying $750k and losing a number 1 pick...I think you may be a bit off.

Because Commish wants to make an example of the Pats, appease the media and those that cried foul, and use the big stick to assert his authority. THAT is the reason for the outrageous fine against the Pats and BB. If you think otherwise, you are not paying attention.

 

[Sunqueen212]

We all know that BB passionately studies film. He wanted the footage on those teams. He keeps a libray on all DC for crying out loud. The fact that his cameraman was on the field is against the rules. But, to say that the content of the tape was used during a game is a huge presumption WITH NO PROOF!

So if you say the Patriots cheated, SHOW ME THE PROOF!

 

[patpatriot]

Ok how about this.
Your about to take a test in school. You make up a cheat sheet and
tape it to your arm. The you go take the test.
But for what ever reason you never look at the cheat sheet while you
are taking the test.

You broke the rules but you didn't cheat.
Breaking rules doesn't correlate to cheating. You need to get an advantage
from breaking the rules to be a cheat.
Breaking the rules is only half way to cheating.

That's very clever and close to the truth. Of course if you were caught with it I doubt it would be much of a defense.

 

[pats_ftw!!1!]

It is not agianst any rule to tape coaches, it isn't even a rule what you can do with such tape. The rule is you cannot tape ANYTHING from certain places, one being... on the field/sideline.

ummm what??

the rule is in place for a reason, and the pats broke that rule

Ok how about this.
Your about to take a test in school. You make up a cheat sheet and
tape it to your arm. The you go take the test.
But for what ever reason you never look at the cheat sheet while you
are taking the test.

You broke the rules but you didn't cheat.
Breaking rules doesn't correlate to cheating. You need to get an advantage
from breaking the rules to be a cheat.
Breaking the rules is only half way to cheating.

why would i make a cheat sheet and not use it to cheat, that just doesnt make sense.

 

[CheerforTom]

So if a guy robs a bank but doesnt spend the money, hes innocent?

Pats got caught cheating.

That analogy doesn't work because when you rob a bank you're taking something away (the money) that you now have and the bank doesn't. When you film something you're not taking anything away. A better analogy would be, if you take someone's credit card number and end up never using it with them having no idea you have it, is that still stealing? You've stolen the number, yes, but that's only the MEANS to do the theft.

We "stole" the tape, but there's no proof that we used it for anything. That's what JR's saying. It's the difference between breaking a rule and cheating.

 

[patpatriot]

Most pat fans continue to be in denial. Robert Kraft isn't.

mgteich is a...ah screw it. This guy's hopeless.

 

[Sunqueen212]

I'm not in denial, the patriots ATTEMPTED to cheat. However the tape was taken before they had a chance to use it. Just like in highschool, if you made a cheat sheet for the test but had it taken away before hand and still passed the test, you didn't cheat, you ATTEMPTED to cheat

How did they attempt to cheat? Did they attempt and succeed at breaking a rule? Yes. Was the content of the illegal videotaping used during the game? No. If you think the answer is yes, show me the proof.

 

[emoney_33]

the rule is in place for a reason, and the pats broke that rule



why would i make a cheat sheet and not use it to cheat, that just doesnt make sense.

1) What purpose is that rule in place for? What do the patriots gain from breaking this rule and not taping the coaches from a legal location, maybe with a more high tech camera?

2) As you are taking the test you realize you know the answers and never look at the cheat sheet or you suddenly feel guilty and don't use it. doens't matter there ARE cases where it makes sense, just not to you in your short-sightedness. Even if it didn't make sense it doesn't take away from the fact that in that hypothetical it is not CHEATING but is breaking a rule.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

JR, to quote the theme song of a television show that was probably off the air before you were born, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

We broke the damn rules. We cheated. Nobody gives a fiddler's flatulence what you think cheating is. America's pretty convinced that breaking the rules to try to get an unfair advantage is cheating.

We did it, presumeably other teams did not. I am speaking specifically about using videotape to steal signals, instead of other means.

We had access to this method, others did not. They did not, because they did not break that rule. That's cheating.

I don't GET how people need to make it allllll go away. It won't. You can't make it go away by wishing or getting into labyrinthine definitional debates. We cheated, we got busted, we paid the price, we are moving on.

Now, you can say it had a minor impact, if any. You can say it was one of 10,000 things Belichik does to get that edge, with the other 9,999 of them being legal. I've said all these things.

But you can't just randomly say "we didn't cheat because I don't like how that sounds." All you can do is move on.

PFnV

 

[Patstopia]

the rule is in place for a reason, and the pats broke that rule

And that is why they got in trouble! For breaking the filming rule. Not for cheating! If you want to immediately know what the defense is signaling in, you look with binoculars and signal it in. If you want to study the tendancies, you film it for later. Do you actually think they had time to record a full half of a game. Bring it in, match it up, decide who was the actual signal caller, decide what each signal means in the 10 min at halftime? If you do, you've been watching the SciFi channel too much!

 

[pats_ftw!!1!]

1) What purpose is that rule in place for? What do the patriots gain from breaking this rule and not taping the coaches from a legal location, maybe with a more high tech camera?

2) As you are taking the test you realize you know the answers and never look at the cheat sheet or you suddenly feel guilty and don't use it. doens't matter there ARE cases where it makes sense, just not to you in your short-sightedness. Even if it didn't make sense it doesn't take away from the fact that in that hypothetical it is not CHEATING but is breaking a rule.

the key here is to use reason and consider circumstance, i don't look at this and say hmm the pats were filming the jets coordinators to get fashion tips, i conclude that they were breaking a rule in order to learn or identify jets signals. they may or may not have gotten the chance to use the tape but thats besides the point, it is crucial to look at their intentions. would they have used the tape to gain some sort of competitive advantage had they not been caught? i assume so.

 

[JR4]

t.......

why would i make a cheat sheet and not use it to cheat, that just doesnt make sense.

Well the point was breaking a rule in a game doesn't
mean you cheated unless you get an advantage from
breaking the rule.

NO PROOF has been given that PATS obtained some advantage
in any game by breaking that rule.

Thus until proven,
they have only broken a rule .... but they have not cheated.

 

[CheerforTom]

We broke the damn rules. We cheated. Nobody gives a fiddler's flatulence what you think cheating is. America's pretty convinced that breaking the rules to try to get an unfair advantage is cheating.

Right there you equate breaking the rules with cheating. JR's contending that they're not the same thing, and I agree with him. There's no arguing we broke the rules, we definitely did. But to call us cheaters connotates something completely different.

Your only argument seems to be that everyone else thinks we're cheaters, and you'll excuse me if I don't accept that.

 

[pats_ftw!!1!]

the rule is in place for a reason, and the pats broke that rule

And that is why they got in trouble! For breaking the filming rule. Not for cheating! If you want to immediately know what the defense is signaling in, you look with binoculars and signal it in. If you want to study the tendancies, you film it for later. Do you actually think they had time to record a full half of a game. Bring it in, match it up, decide who was the actual signal caller, decide what each signal means in the 10 min at halftime? If you do, you've been watching the SciFi channel too much!

i think u r misunderstanding where i am coming from, i don't think they cheated to gain a competitive advantage in that particular game, but they broke a rule in order to film the jets coordinators, and this film was likely going to be used for future game planning giving the pats an unfair competitive advantage against the jets simply because the means by which they obtained the tape were against the rules.

 

[pats_ftw!!1!]

Well the point was breaking a rule in a game doesn't
mean you cheated unless you get an advantage from
breaking the rule.

NO PROOF has been given that PATS obtained some advantage
in any game by breaking that rule.

Thus until proven,
they have only broken a rule .... but they have not cheated.

i see where u r coming from in a way but to me in this case its the same thing

 

[420jim]

How did they attempt to cheat? Did they attempt and succeed at breaking a rule? Yes. Was the content of the illegal videotaping used during the game? No. If you think the answer is yes, show me the proof.

well, from what I understand the cameraman got caught as he was trying to get to the locker room to deliver the tape. My assumption is that if the pats got the tape, they would have used it. If I'm wrong on this assumption, then I'm wrong, so be it. Its not costing me anything.