My $0.02 on the crowd

[JoeSixPat]

You will live in a state of disappointment with those high standards .you shoud be sentenced to a few years in Oakland or in Detroit..and see how long you last as a "fan" there. Most likely not too long at all...Should the word spolied come to mind?..High standards and no tolerance..and taking support away at a moments notice..a TRUE fan..I think fans like you are more "so called fans"..high standards..find ANY other pro team with this team's record over the last 8 years. Not many are they..and this team deserves booing...right?? I think ignorant and immature DO fit...

Having high standards is bad now? You guys REALLY aren't making sense. Having high standards is what makes the Patriots the Patriots.

Fans weren't booing because the Patriots were on a winning streak, or have had a strong 8 years... (seems like a lot of righteous fans are trying to move away from the "no booing because they were on a winning streak, now that the team's no longer on a winning streak)

They were booing because a 1-17 team was allowed to make a 18-0 team look like a 1-17 team on their home field, for the worst home field loss in a decade.

'nuff said.

 

[AtivanPatsFan]

They looked lost because they were losing, and we don't know what that looks like. They looked 'lost' because they were getting beaten, they weren't making plays. That doesnt mean they gave up, it means they didnt look like they nornally do, because they normally win, and they weren't.

As far as the rest, I think fans should be loud.
I think booing does more harm than doing nothing does though.
I disagree that to boo is to care, because booing means I care about ME not the team.

Look, my point is not that booing should never happen. I dont see the value in it, but I can see justification in it at times.
Booing says I have had enough, and I do not support you right now.
What I have a HUGE problem with is that fans turned on this team in such a short period of time. It is so ungrateful and disingenuous. All the same fans that talk about how much they love the Patriots booed them after HALF A GAME. They said based on HALF A GAME, I'm fed up, you disgust me.

Shouldn't this team get more rope than that?
Shouldn't they be allowed to become mediocre before they are assailed. Shouldnt it have to be more than the first time in almost 2 years that they were ON THE WAY TO it was only halftime) losing a game?

I just dont get the thinking that says I am going to boo this team to show them I am disgusted when even that day included they are miles better than any other team over a very long period of time.

I guess booing the Lions like that makes sense. Booing the Jets like that after last years 4-12 (here we go again) makes sense. Do you think the Colts fans are booing? The Jags? Would the Cowboy fans boo a bad half? The Giants? I think there is no chance of that.

You've got to be trolling?

My GOD.

This is some of the funniest **** I've ever read.

 

[Pats726]

Having high standards is bad now? You guys REALLY aren't making sense. Having high standards is what makes the Patriots the Patriots.



Fans weren't booing because the Patriots were on a winning streak, or have had a strong 8 years... (seems like a lot of righteous fans are trying to move away from the "no booing because they were on a winning streak, now that the team's no longer on a winning streak)

They were booing because a 1-17 team was allowed to make a 18-0 team look like a 1-17 team on their home field, for the worst home field loss in a decade.

'nuff said.

I agree...very little depth of a fan..

 

[Tunescribe]

Are you really saying that's the best you think this team can do? You think they were giving everything they had on the field?

Beyond that, how about looking at the player comments - Jarvis Green "That's not Patriots football"

How about Bill Belichick's comment on WEEI - "We're better than that"

Or maybe you think he's ignorant and immature too.

Ahhh - I see. All this time I was under the impression that you guys thought that ignroance and immaturity were bad!

I don't think fans who have high standards for their team are immature or igorant, but seeing as you don't feel that's a bad thing - I guess we're essentially in agreement.

I agree with Jarvis and BB. They're not at all alluding to alleged lack of effort. Nowhere post-game did anyone on the team say they didn't try to beat Miami. If you want to blame/boo someone, blame/boo BB. I'm sure now that he's been booed for the first time in 22 games, he'll man up, dig deep, and come back next time with a workable game plan.

As for you and your friends who advocate booing as an effective means of motivating the Patriots to play harder and win: ignorance and immaturity aren't necessarily "bad" qualities, in that they can be rectified with a little dose of awareness and common sense. Try it. But digging in your heels and insisting on remaining ignorant and immature -- now THAT is bad.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You've got to be trolling?

My GOD.

This is some of the funniest **** I've ever read.

I know - they've really painted themselves in a corner... there's no reason to boo... ever...

They assert that Sunday's game, the worst loss in a decade, worst loss in the history of Gillette Stadium, where a 1-17 team beat a 18-0 pro-bowl defense coming off a 20 game winning streak, making THEM look like the 1-17 team, is the clear product of the Patriots giving 100% effort.

But even if they didn't give 100% effort they would never boo.

Because even if the team gives 75% - of 50% - or 10% effort - they'd never boo and it would never be acceptable in their minds for any fans to boo... because it just has no positive or redeeming qualities. They're perfectly zen with this team resting on their laurels for a few games following a good winning streak - and don't understand why a coach or other fans might not be too happy about that.

That's where they pretty much showed themselves to be cult members rather than fans!

 

[Pats726]

I know - they've really painted themselves in a corner... there's no reason to boo... ever...

They assert that Sunday's game, the worst loss in a decade, worst loss in the history of Gillette Stadium, where a 1-17 team beat a 18-0 pro-bowl defense coming off a 20 game winning streak, making THEM look like the 1-17 team, is the clear product of the Patriots giving 100% effort.

But even if they didn't give 100% effort they would never boo.

Because even if the team gives 75% - of 50% - or 10% effort - they'd never boo and it would never be acceptable in their minds for any fans to boo... because it just has no positive or redeeming qualities. They're perfectly zen with this team resting on their laurels for a few games following a good winning streak - and don't understand why a coach or other fans might not be too happy about that.

That's where they pretty much showed themselves to be cult members rather than fans!

you CLAIM to be a fan..you think it's just fine to BOO the team you are a fan of.. So..the Patriots go to NY play the Jets..and the Jets fan boo the team,,Just the same as those "fans" of the team did...where is the difference?? Jets fans boo teh Pats as doo so called Pats fans...Hmmmmm
Booing.is ALL negative..the BOOS whether they are from Jets fans or so called Patriot fans is the same.... I saw so called fans because booing DOES NOT support your team nor does it add an IOTA to the word fan..if anything..it takes away FROM that word. IN other words..those that boo...ARE HARDLY fans..they can call themselves that..but NOT SUPPORTING the team is NOT being a fan. Please tell me HOW BOOING in anyway supports the team?? The fan that boos might be a LOT closer to fair weather fans than those with LARGER PERSPECTIVES and not immature and totally reactive.

 

[JoeSixPat]

you CLAIM to be a fan..you think it's just fine to BOO the team you are a fan of.. So..the Patriots go to NY play the Jets..and the Jets fan boo the team,,Just the same as those "fans" of the team did...where is the difference?? Jets fans boo teh Pats as doo so called Pats fans...Hmmmmm
Booing.is ALL negative..the BOOS whether they are from Jets fans or so called Patriot fans is the same.... I saw so called fans because booing DOES NOT support your team nor does it add an IOTA to the word fan..if anything..it takes away FROM that word. IN other words..those that boo...ARE HARDLY fans..they can call themselves that..but NOT SUPPORTING the team is NOT being a fan. Please tell me HOW BOOING in anyway supports the team?? The fan that boos might be a LOT closer to fair weather fans than those with LARGER PERSPECTIVES and not immature and totally reactive.

I'm a fan of the Patriots - and the Patriots are supposed to consistently give 100% effort.

If I see players the field that refuse to do that, I'm booing individuals who are wearing the Patriots laundry - nothing more. They're not true Patriots if they don't give 100%.

Unlike you I don't think it's OK for a team to rest on its laurels whether they are coming off a winning streak or not. And unlike you if other fans have a problem with that too and choose to boo, I'm not righteous or judgemental enough to tell them what to do.

And I damn well sure wouldn't be egotistical enough to think that there's only ONE definition of what a good fan is and it's MY definition.

So can we officially put you on the record with being perfectly fine cheering for the laundry if players on the team only feels like playing at 50% or less?

 

[Garbanza]

When one can't answer questions one throws in a perspective THAT is not true, was not said and claims that it is.. THAT is pretty ignorant.. WHERE did I state that "that the people that boo are drunks"...PLEASE show that to me?? THAT is PRETTY poor...I hope you have a fine time finding that...it will be a LONG YIME before you find that one...BUT THAT is just another invention in your mind....maybe like the so called magic "perspective" of being at a game..and HOW different that is.
BTW no one has said what the difference is between a Dolphin fan who was at Sunday's game and booing the Patriots and so called Patriot fans that booed them, There is NO difference..it is all negativity against the team..What is needed are fans that are REALLY fans! Who don't act like emotional weather vanes..cheer when the team is winning and showing support and booing and not showing support when it isn'y going very well. It's way easy to be a fan when things are going well.. a LOT tougher when they are not. Many so called fans will be gone the next time the team hits a dry spell.

check out your earlier posts - you said something to the effect that the boo birds are part of the drunken crowd at Gillette. I told you that is hardly the case. If you were at the game, you would know.

One thing I am concluding here, however, is that a lot of the folks here became fans in 2001. I've been following this team since 1978. I've been to games when the team blew chunks, I've been to games when they looked unbeatable. Never once did I boo - but I do not denounce those that do.

If you are correct, the boo-birds will be gone once the team goes into a downturn - and then you will be happy watching the game from the comfort of you home, happy that no one is booing. Good for you. Bad or good, I'll be behind my team - hoping someone in teh crowd actually gives a sh*t about what going on on the field.

 

[JoeSixPat]

check out your earlier posts - you said something to the effect that the boo birds are part of the drunken crowd at Gillette. I told you that is hardly the case. If you were at the game, you would know.

One thing I am concluding here, however, is that a lot of the folks here became fans in 2001. I've been following this team since 1978. I've been to games when the team blew chunks, I've been to games when they looked unbeatable. Never once did I boo - but I do not denounce those that do.

If you are correct, the boo-birds will be gone once the team goes into a downturn - and then you will be happy watching the game from the comfort of you home, happy that no one is booing. Good for you. Bad or good, I'll be behind my team - hoping someone in teh crowd actually gives a sh*t about what going on on the field.

Excellent point. As a fans since around the same time as you, going to games in the Hugh Millen era when they were blacked out - the true test of a true fan IMO - I'd welcome the opportunity to get season tickets.

But even with far less talented teams that finished with very poor records, watching them give 100% and over achieve, even if it meant missing the playoffs, was something I admired.

I wouldn't hold the same admiration for an immensly talented team that didn't give 100% and wouldn't feel justified cheering for them.

And THAT IMO is a quality of a good fan.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

The exact reason I am calling you ignorant is that you have no way of knowing whether they 'gave their all' or not. You are saying they didn't because it justifys being immature and booing. I will answer both of your questions.

1) I do not know if they gave their all. I cannot judge that from my vantage point. I assume they did because its hard for me to envision that professional football players go out on the field and just decide to not try.

At this point no effort is something you have made up because it gives credence to your booing. Give me a shred of evidence.

Unless someone comes out and says it straight up you know as well as I do you will always have an out but with that said, I will list a bunch of quotes from Pats players about the game and you can interpret what you want from it so here we go:

Shock to the system - The Boston Globe

If you just come out there and think you can just show up and beat someone, and they come in motivated, it isn't going to happen in this league," said defensive end Richard Seymour.

Just seeing the way the Dolphins performed out there, they just wanted it more," said Moss. "That sounds crazy for me to say, but I was out there, and I could really see it.

Patriots defense goes soft - BostonHerald.com

“We just weren’t doing our job, from me to whoever was guarding the middle, to the safeties, to pressure on the (quarterback),” Hobbs said.

Gimmick plays didn’t surprise - BostonHerald.com

Patriots [team stats] coach Bill Belichick made an interesting admission with respect to the gadget play the Miami Dolphins [team stats] used again and again to embarrass his team’s defense.

Not only had the Pats seen it before, but they had practiced against the unconventional formation while preparing for the New York Jets [team stats] two weeks ago.

“We worked against it last week. That’s the formation the Jets used last week with Leon Washington [stats],” Belichick said. “He’s thrown out of it, run out of it, so we worked on it a week ago.”

Yeah (we saw it), but each week brings its own thing. That’s not something we were looking toward with Miami,” Hobbs said. “It’s just something we didn’t stop. You can sit here and draw up plays all day. You can be a Monday morning quarterback. Bottom line, we didn’t stop it. We didn’t stop it at the beginning of the game. We didn’t stop it at the end of the game.”

I would never make stuff up to make my point. I am a pats fan no matter what and I'd love to be drinking cool aid all day but bottom line is I will call it what it is and lack of effort was what it was. With that said I am moving on.

 

[nepatz11]

To me there is a key difference. Booing a complete lack of effort is usually fair and that is what we saw a complete lack of effort. I think what most people who raised concerns had a problem with was not booing in general but booing in this situation where yes a team played a terrible effortless game and maybe in some situations desevred to be booed for that. But considering thier recent exemplary effort and history especially at home and considering they just set a NFL RECORD for consecutive wins I felt they deserved better. Generally when a team plays like that they deserve to be booed.

 

[Pats726]

the perspective. You stated that the people that boo are drunks. check out your earlier posts - you said something to the effect that the boo birds are part of the drunken crowd at Gillette.

You have stated that THAt is my perspective..and again stated that I said something like what you have said.. NEITHER is close to what I REALLY DID say..and I challenged you to find that..and.you have found NOTHING at all.to back that up...No surprise that you CLAIM what people say and then when challenged are at a loss to actually find their words.. I said neither..of what you have stated. But that is OK if you wish to take what one says and change the words.

 

[Pats726]

Bad or good, I'll be behind my team -

THAT is good...so will I...I support the team..ALL teh time..and that not mean I will not be critical..and such..But do you think people that boo are behind the team?? I do not...booing shows NO support for the team or a withdrawing of support for the team..and boo birds do that...I will not...nor will many here.

 

[JoeSixPat]

But do you think people that boo are behind the team?? I do not...booing shows NO support for the team or a withdrawing of support for the team..and boo birds do that...I will not...nor will many here.

Not all good fans share your interpretation. They feel that if they see individual players, or the team as a whole, failing to give 100% effort, as good fans they feel obliged to let the players know that they do NOT consider that acceptable.

It may sound odd, but to some, booing or cheering is the means by which they tell players or the team whether they approve of their dedication and performance in a particular game. I know - it's crazy....

But try to keep in mind, those that boo when they feel the team's only giving partial effort find it just as odd and strange that you would cheer such lack of effort, as you've been VERY clear that you feel a good fan would cheer on the team in such a situation and that you would NEVER boo, even if they're only giving partial effort.

 

[Patslifer]

I cant believe people are still crying about this issue. The pats played like crap, and they god bood. Big deal!

If they come out and "show us" next week, get fired up and tear up the niners, the booing lite a fire under their ass, and was all worth it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I cant believe people are still crying about this issue. The pats played like crap, and they god bood. Big deal!

If they come out and "show us" next week, get fired up and tear up the niners, the booing lite a fire under their ass, and was all worth it.

Booing that "lit a fire under their ass?"

That's impossible. It could never happen. It would never happen. Pats726, AndyJohnson, Tunescribe and others are ADAMANT that there can NEVER be any positive aspect of booing.

NEVER.

So as much as I agree with you, I hate to tell you, they've proven that that's just impossible and it would never ever ever happen.... and apparently has NEVER happened in the history of the NFL.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Whatevah. Says more about the fans than the team, to me.

You guys that like booing, it's not like everybody else is here to talk you out of it. It's a free country.

I always thought Iggles fans were idiots for being such big fans of booing their team, but I have seen the light. With enough booing, the Iggles will eventually become a super bowl dynasty. They just haven't hit that point of derision yet.

Well, you guys need to get some practice in if you're to propel the Cassel (or O'Connell or whoever) Patriots into the annals of history.

PFnV

 

[Pats726]

Not all good fans share your interpretation. They feel that if they see individual players, or the team as a whole, failing to give 100% effort, as good fans they feel obliged to let the players know that they do NOT consider that acceptable.

It may sound odd, but to some, booing or cheering is the means by which they tell players or the team whether they approve of their dedication and performance in a particular game. I know - it's crazy....

But try to keep in mind, those that boo when they feel the team's only giving partial effort find it just as odd and strange that you would cheer such lack of effort, as you've been VERY clear that you feel a good fan would cheer on the team in such a situation and that you would NEVER boo, even if they're only giving partial effort.

SO..what u are saying when u are booing is that u are like a Jets fan booing the Pats.. SAME thing...I find THAT totally illogical.. doesn't make a heckk of a lot of sense...OR are you claiming Jets fans that boo are REALLY Patriot fans??? please.....
BY the way I THINK players already know HOW they are playing.. they don't need fans to remind them..

 

[JoeSixPat]

SO..what u are saying when u are booing is that u are like a Jets fan booing the Pats.. SAME thing...I find THAT totally illogical.. doesn't make a heckk of a lot of sense...OR are you claiming Jets fans that boo are REALLY Patriot fans??? please.....
BY the way I THINK players already know HOW they are playing.. they don't need fans to remind them..

Um, are you really having that tough a time comprehending this?

Jets fans are booing the Patriots because they hate the Patriots as a rival.

Patriots fans are not booing the team because they hate the Patriots.

Tell me - you REALLY think that all those Patriots fans who were booing at the game HATE the Patriots just as Jets fans do? Do you really need me to explain this to you further? I'm trying NOT to insult your intelligence here, but you seem like you're really having a difficult time understanding this.

Be sure to also respond to Patslifer too and explain to him that booing has never "lit a fire" under a team that was giving less than full effort in the history of the NFL.

You might want to go on to explain that Bill Parcells disparaging Terry Glen and numerous other players in his coaching career didn't help light a fire under them either, prompting Glen to have a record setting rookie season. (Because if you accept the fact that individual players might benefit from negative feedback to spur them on to peak performance, you've pretty much admitted that negative feedback can spur a team on to peak performance)

 

[Garbanza]

You have stated that THAt is my perspective..and again stated that I said something like what you have said.. NEITHER is close to what I REALLY DID say..and I challenged you to find that..and.you have found NOTHING at all.to back that up...No surprise that you CLAIM what people say and then when challenged are at a loss to actually find their words.. I said neither..of what you have stated. But that is OK if you wish to take what one says and change the words.

Listen dude, I don't have the patience to find it - but you posted it. In this thread - unless you've made an edit....actually another poster called you out on it too.

Whatever. Go on and rant about the injuctices of booing a game that you were no wheer near. I'm done with this ridiculous thread and shame on me for posting in it as much as I did.