Moss in '10 without an extension: Something to prove or fragile psyche?

[Jangles]

My personal opinion is that he will do whatever it takes to go out as a SB champ, whether thats with the 2010 Pats or any other team/year

Watch him become a Saint or a Colt

 

[Satchboogie3]

What do contract years and WRs have in common? The unexpected. Big stars, big egos, big question marks. Will we see a showcase or a shut down?
BB has to consider the effects of a contract year with Moss. High performance equates to dollars. But if Moss goes into one of his funks midseason, probably after a Revis shutdown, can the team depend on him to battle to the end...will the Oakland Randy emerge...maybe a TO situation.
Personally, I think the guy gets a raw deal. Playing 95% of the snaps, sprinting 20-50 yds every 45 seconds after engaging in hand to hand combat each play. Having Ds focus on you every play...the guy plays under alot of pressure because of who he is and what he has accomplished.
The problem from a team stand point is that he takes his frustration to the bench and players like Brady have to take time out of their game preperation in order to deal with another's psyche. Compound this with his lack of accountability to the media. No big deal really...except for the fact that other players become responsible to be his spokesman. I imagine this gets very old quickly. The guy making $9 mill won't speak for himself. Reminds me of Manny Ramirez...and players eventually tired of his act.
From BB's point of view, he has a guy like Brady that puts all the pressures of the team on his back...the ultimate leadership role. And he has a guy like Moss...talent...but high maintenance. Will BB decide that his QB shouldn't have to "get Randy involved" or he may shut down. So much for the "whoever is open " philosophy.
Back to the topic...contract year, added pressure...can the Patriots depend on this guy for 16 games +... The cap number and actually '10 outlay screams that he will remain a Patriot. But if he is traded or dropped, it will be an indictment of character and mental toughness.

Since when has Moss ever had a midseason "funk"? The only "disappointing" seasons Moss has ever had were a injury shortened season in Minn and Oak. If Moss can't be counted on for 16+ games, no one in the league can.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Since when has Moss ever had a midseason "funk"? The only "disappointing" seasons Moss has ever had were a injury shortened season in Minn and Oak. If Moss can't be counted on for 16+ games, no one in the league can.

Week 11 to Week 14 Moss did not produce to the level that the team needed him to produce at. Even Larry Fitz had below-average performance at the end of the season. It happens to the best of 'em.

At the end of the day, he had a tremendous statistical season. I'm glad he is here.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Week 11 to Week 14 Moss did not produce to the level that the team needed him to produce at. Even Larry Fitz had below-average performance at the end of the season. It happens to the best of 'em.

At the end of the day, he had a tremendous statistical season. I'm glad he is here.

No WR can perform to the level "the team needed" every game. That isn't to say he was in a "funk". Even during the week 10-14 stretch, he still scored 3 TDs, 16 Rec for 253 yards (15.8 y/r, 50 Y/G), with 2 solid games (2 rec, 66 yards, 1 TD; 5 rec, 70 yards, 1 TD). That really isn't what I'd call a funk, especially considering he played against the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th passing defenses (and #1 corner) during that stretch.

Calling it a funk would be like saying a Manny Ramirez hitting .275 with a .500 SLG during a 4 game series, while facing Felix Hernandez, CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, and Roy Halladay, a funk. It's reaching for straws.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

No WR can perform to the level "the team needed" every game. That isn't to say he was in a "funk". Even during the week 10-14 stretch, he still scored 3 TDs, 16 Rec for 253 yards (15.8 y/r, 50 Y/G), with 2 solid games (2 rec, 66 yards, 1 TD; 5 rec, 70 yards, 1 TD). That really isn't what I'd call a funk, especially considering he played against the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th passing defenses (and #1 corner) during that stretch.

Calling it a funk would be like saying a Manny Ramirez hitting .275 with a .500 SLG during a 4 game series, while facing Felix Hernandez, CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, and Roy Halladay, a funk. It's reaching for straws.

Obviously you are a Moss lover from seeing your sig. I've always liked Moss but I'm not in love with the guy, and I'm actually starting to agree with Felger about him.

Yes he's going to put up his stats in the regular season and make some great catches, but don't look at the stats; use the eye test. He gets shutdown WAY too easily in big games. He's not physical, he doesn't like going over the middle, and he doesn't fight through coverage. He takes plays off when he is doubled instead of trying to fight to get open. When have you ever felt like Moss was going to be the one getting the ball on a slant or crossing route on a 3rd and 5? Almost never. He's a homerun threat that isn't consistent enough from play to play and he built up his stats against porous defenses this season. His greatest asset is his deep speed, and with the way defenses are getting to Brady and Moss getting older and losing some giddyup in the legs, our deep game hasn't been as good as it was.

He has done next to nothing for us in the playoffs. He did nothing until that final drive against the Giants in the 07 playoffs. He did squat against the Ravens, getting some garbage yards at the end of the game. He's taken out of the game too easily by good defense IMO. He needed to step up and take over for us with Welker going down. He failed to do that. Edelman came to play, he didn't. I don't want to hear about injuries. Brady was out there playing with a broken finger, cracked ribs, and a surgically repaired knee all season long.

 

[emoney_33]

Obviously you are a Moss lover from seeing your sig. I've always liked Moss but I'm not in love with the guy, and I'm actually starting to agree with Felger about him.

aww so close, but FAIL!

 

[emoney_33]

He has done next to nothing for us in the playoffs. He did nothing until that final drive against the Giants in the 07 playoffs.

Wait so he's so bad that he got the go ahead TD in the superbowl of the near perfect season? If the defense held, you'd be singing a different tune.

He did squat against the Ravens, getting some garbage yards at the end of the game.

Perhaps you missed the part where Brady got drilled early on and started throwing wobblers, and the part where Moss was the ONLY receiver against the Ravens. No single Wide receiver (past or present) can't be taken out of a game if the defense can focus solely on him.

I don't want to hear about injuries. Brady was out there playing with a broken finger, cracked ribs, and a surgically repaired knee all season long.

And that didn't effect Brady's throws at all... Moss is not a slot or possession WR. Your biggest complaint about him seems to be that he's a deep threat... Which makes no damn sense because you NEED a deep threat and there's no perfect receiver in the NFL that is lightning quick and excels at everything.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

aww so close, but FAIL!

Reading some of your other posts, you are obviously a subjective Moss fanboy who can't get over their crush. Take your emotion out of it and face the facts. He does not like to go over the middle, is not a physical WR, does not fight through coverage as hard as other #1 WR's. He has not put up in the big games in the playoffs. You can't separate emotion from reality. Felger's points/views about him are valid. Just because Moss puts up stats against bad defenses doesn't mean he's amazing. Good defenses take him away far too easily.

 

[emoney_33]

Reading some of your other posts, you are obviously a subjective Moss fanboy who can't get over their crush. Take your emotion out of it and face the facts. He does not like to go over the middle, is not a physical WR, does not fight through coverage as hard as other #1 WR's. He has not put up in the big games in the playoffs. You can't separate emotion from reality. Felger's points/views are valid. Just because Moss puts up stats against bad defenses doesn't mean he's amazing. Good defenses take him away far too easily.

He's never in his entire career liked to go over the middle or been physical. I've understood that since day one. I'm not a "fanboy" nor do I have a "crush", but it's just like you bashers when you get tired of ignoring facts you use these keywords to try to discredit logic. Sorry it doesn't work.

You can claim he doesn't fight through coverage as hard as other #1 WR's all you want, but the fact is you are 100% wrong. He just finished putting up a top-3 WR year. He gets double teamed on EVERY SINGLE play. The team had 0 other deep threats this year and thus the deep part of the defensive backfield was completely keyed on Randy Moss. He STILL put up the numbers he did.

Good defenses limit EVERY RECEIVER, otherwise they wouldn't be "good" defenses. Is that hard to understand? It's not like other receivers went off on the Jets except for Moss. What exactly do you consider being taken away? Last time I checked Buf had the #2 pass defense.

Felger NEVER has a valid point, he's a loud mouthed moron who is desperate to get ratings. NOTHING more.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Wait so he's so bad that he got the go ahead TD in the superbowl of the near perfect season? If the defense held, you'd be singing a different tune.



Perhaps you missed the part where Brady got drilled early on and started throwing wobblers, and the part where Moss was the ONLY receiver against the Ravens. No single Wide receiver (past or present) can't be taken out of a game if the defense can focus solely on him.



And that didn't effect Brady's throws at all... Moss is not a slot or possession WR. Your biggest complaint about him seems to be that he's a deep threat... Which makes no damn sense because you NEED a deep threat and there's no perfect receiver in the NFL that is lightning quick and excels at everything.

I would not be singing a different tune if the defense held. Moss had a catch in the end zone where the defender fell down. WOW that's amazing.

Edelman showed up and came to play vs the Ravens. So did Faulk. Randy was no where to be found.

Guys like Jennings, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc. are all good deep threats who also work the middle of the field and have an impact in the intermediate passing game. Moss is great at what he does, but I'd much rather have an Andre Johnson who might not have 4.2 speed but will go over the middle and get drilled to pick up the first down.

Take your love for Moss out of the equation and be a realist.

Buffalo has the #2 pass defense b/c they give up like 200 on the ground. Moss built up his stats vs teams like Tennesee and a depleted Colts secondary and two rookie CB's on Miami. He did nothing vs the Jets, Ravens, Denver, Saints.

 

[emoney_33]

I would not be singing a different tune if the defense held. Moss had a catch in the end zone where the defender fell down. WOW that's amazing.

Edelman showed up and came to play vs the Ravens. So did Faulk. Randy was no where to be found.

Nowhere to be found except getting doubled, opening up the underneath for Edelman and Faulk. Let's not revise history either. Edelman had 8 total yards in the 1st half and didn't get a positive yard reception until the 2nd quarter when the score was 24-0.

Guys like Jennings, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc. are all good deep threats who also work the middle of the field and have an impact in the intermediate passing game. Moss is great at what he does, but I'd much rather have an Andre Johnson who might not have 4.2 speed but will go over the middle and get drilled to pick up the first down.

Take your love for Moss out of the equation and be a realist.

Wow so you'd rather have the amazing younger receivers, wouldn't we all love that. Not every team has the luxury of an Andre Johnson in their prime. You act like they just grow on trees. And Calvin Johnson has really been taken out of some games this year, but it only matters when it's Moss I guess.

 

[emoney_33]

Buffalo has the #2 pass defense b/c they give up like 200 on the ground. Moss built up his stats vs teams like Tennesee and a depleted Colts secondary and two rookie CB's on Miami. He did nothing vs the Jets, Ravens, Denver, Saints.

Sneaking comments in there...

Moss did better against the Bills than did Andre Johnson. Just a little FYI

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Nowhere to be found except getting doubled, opening up the underneath for Edelman and Faulk. Let's not revise history either. Edelman had 8 total yards in the 1st half and didn't get a positive yard reception until the 2nd quarter when the score was 24-0.




Wow so you'd rather have the amazing younger receivers, wouldn't we all love that. Not every team has the luxury of an Andre Johnson in their prime. You act like they just grow on trees. And Calvin Johnson has really been taken out of some games this year, but it only matters when it's Moss I guess.

Oh so no other WR's get doubled in this league? Moss is the only WR that gets doubled so it's all okay. Come on I'm so sick of hearing about him getting doubled. Like no other #1 WR doesn't have a CB and a safety shading him most of the time.

Also look at who Calvin Johnson is playing with. Stafford vs Brady at QB. An O-Line that went 0-16 vs and O-Line that went 16-0. It's amazing that Calvin Johnson has been productive so far in his career with the team that the Lions are. They have no legitimate threat in the passing game besides him.

I'm not saying Andre Johnson's grow on trees, I'm saying that's the "perfect" WR.

I'm pretty sure if a guy like Marshall played in our offense with Brady instead of with Orton, he'd put up similar numbers to Moss. I prefer the Boldin's, Marshall's, and Fitzgerald's of the world. Guys who lack the deep speed Moss has but go over the middle and are involved in the intermediate passing game.

 

[emoney_33]

Oh so no other WR's get doubled in this league? Moss is the only WR that gets doubled so it's all okay. Come on I'm so sick of hearing about him getting doubled. Like no other #1 WR doesn't have a CB and a safety shading him most of the time.

There are not many WR that get consistent double teams like Moss. And I can't think of one that had anything close to as bad a #2 as Sam Aiken on the other side leaving basically the entire deep part of the field to them.

Also look at who Calvin Johnson is playing with. Stafford vs Brady at QB. An O-Line that went 0-16 vs and O-Line that went 16-0. It's amazing that Calvin Johnson has been productive so far in his career with the team that the Lions are. They have no legitimate threat in the passing game besides him.

Did you just say the respective O-Line's went 0-16 and 16-0? LOL (2007 was 2 years ago btw).

I'm not saying Andre Johnson's grow on trees, I'm saying that's the "perfect" WR.

How can Moss do better (twice) against Buffalo than the "perfect" receiver? And even if Andre Johnson was the perfect receiver, no one ever called Moss at his age the perfect receiver, so what are you arguing? Are you arguing that we should only have a perfect receiver, otherwise no one is worth being on the team?

I'm pretty sure if a guy like Marshall played in our offense with Brady instead of with Orton, he'd put up similar numbers to Moss. I prefer the Boldin's, Marshall's, and Fitzgerald's of the world. Guys who lack the deep speed Moss has but go over the middle and are involved in the intermediate passing game.

Where are you going to get one of these young studs? I'd love Fitzgerald on the team, but we aren't getting him. So because there may be receivers that are better/younger than Moss that means Moss is no good? I don't get it, not a single person is saying that Moss is all we need and no one else would benefit the team.

It's funny that you bring up Fitzgerald though considering he didn't catch a single pass against the Saints until the END of the 2nd quarter when the score was 35-14. You aren't accusing him of disappearing against good teams or choking or being taken out too easily though...

 

[Satchboogie3]

I would not be singing a different tune if the defense held. Moss had a catch in the end zone where the defender fell down. WOW that's amazing.

Watch the highlight again, the defender didn't merely "fall down", Moss faked inside and the DB bit badly, tried to recover and fell. Moss made a good move and that is what caused the separation. You show your ignorance by taking credit away from Randy for causing the DB to fall.

Edelman showed up and came to play vs the Ravens. So did Faulk. Randy was no where to be found.

You're John Harbaugh and you are facing Moss, Edelman, Aiken, etc. Who do you think you "take out of the game"? A rookie QB turned WR 3/4th on the depth chart, a special teamer playing WR, or a HOF game changing WR?
Go watch the game again and look at WHY Edelman was getting open. They dared the Pats to beat them using guys not named Moss. Do you really want Brady ignoring the open guys and forcing it to Moss? Of course you don't, because when Brady does force it to a double/triple teamed Moss, you all ***** "Ahh, Moss is killing Brady!".

Guys like Jennings, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc. are all good deep threats who also work the middle of the field and have an impact in the intermediate passing game. Moss is great at what he does, but I'd much rather have an Andre Johnson who might not have 4.2 speed but will go over the middle and get drilled to pick up the first down.

You act like Moss never goes across the middle... he does. Heck, in the Ravens game, ALL he caught was short routes underneath. His primary ROLE and SKILL is stretching the defense deep. We already have the possession receiver, his name is Welker.

Take your love for Moss out of the equation and be a realist.

Buffalo has the #2 pass defense b/c they give up like 200 on the ground. Moss built up his stats vs teams like Tennesee and a depleted Colts secondary and two rookie CB's on Miami. He did nothing vs the Jets, Ravens, Denver, Saints.[/QUOTE]

Jets had the #1 passing defense and the best corner in the game. NO receiver beat Revis this year. NO ONE. Your argument against Buffalo makes NO sense. If Buffalo's passing defense was so bad, how did they play so well? Why would QBs have such trouble throwing the ball when their running game worked so well and they could set up the play action?

What do the Jets, Ravens, Broncos, and Saints all have in common? They are all in the top ten best passing defenses (#1, #3, #6, #8) and they all put pressure on the QB. You LOVE Jennings, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson so much, so lets see how those guys did against these teams:

Jennings:
-Ravens: 6 Rec, 77 yards, 0 TD

Andre Johnson:
-Jets: 4 Rec, 35 yards, 0 TD

Calvin Johnson:
-NO: 3 Rec, 90 yards, 0 TD
-Ravens: 4 rec, 37 yards, 0 TD
- GB: 2 rec, 10 yards, 1 TD

How about Larry Fitzgerald, you must love him:
-GB: 3 rec, 17 yards, 0 TD
-GB: 6 rec, 82 yards, 2 TD
-NO: 6 rec, 77 yards, 0 TD

Hines Ward?:
-Den: 7 rec, 44 yards, 2 TD
-Bal: 3 rec, 47 yards, 0 TD
-Bal: 4 rec, 37 yards, 0 TD

Chad Ochocinco?:
Den: 5 rec, 89 yards, 0 TD
Bal: 7 rec, 94 yards, 0 TD
NYJ: 0 Rec
NYJ: 2 Rec, 28 yards, 0 TD

Every #1 WR has trouble facing the the best passing defenses and corners.

Finally for the STUPID "Oh, he plays small in big games" CRAP, here are the FACTS:
12 playoff games: 47 Rec, 865 yards, 18.4 Y/R, 10 TD
That averages to 4 Rec, 72 yards, 0.83 TD per game.

Some notable playoff games:
'98 vs ARI: 4 Rec, 73 yards, 1 TD
'98 vs ATL: 6 Rec, 75 yards, 1 TD
'99 vs DAL: 5 Rec, 127 yards, 1 TD
'99 vs STL: 9 Rec, 188 yards, 2 TD
'04 vs GB: 4 Rec, 70 yards, 2 TD

Oh yeah, the guy never shows up in big games...

 

[patsfan-1982]

moss, is just 3 great seasons or 4 good seasons like he had this year away from braking rices TD record im sure moss, would love to take that record away from rice who dose not like moss


that and moss wants to win a SB bad. and if brady wants to get ring #4 he has to find a way to get moss the ball in the playoffs

 

[Yfz01]

I would not be singing a different tune if the defense held. Moss had a catch in the end zone where the defender fell down. WOW that's amazing.

Edelman showed up and came to play vs the Ravens. So did Faulk. Randy was no where to be found.

Guys like Jennings, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc. are all good deep threats who also work the middle of the field and have an impact in the intermediate passing game. Moss is great at what he does, but I'd much rather have an Andre Johnson who might not have 4.2 speed but will go over the middle and get drilled to pick up the first down.

Take your love for Moss out of the equation and be a realist.

Buffalo has the #2 pass defense b/c they give up like 200 on the ground. Moss built up his stats vs teams like Tennesee and a depleted Colts secondary and two rookie CB's on Miami. He did nothing vs the Jets, Ravens, Denver, Saints.

In the Superbowl, I dont' know if you remember the play before the Moss TD. Where he burned the DB on the other side of the endzone and Brady sailed the ball way out of bounds. Or the play right before the half where Moss was wide open downfield and Brady simply couldn't get him the ball. Sure, the pressure can be to blame. But i'm going to take a different route and blame Brady on not having a release as fast as Dan Marino, sounds fair? I want a QB that is as mobile as Rogers, as accurate as Brees, with a release like Romo, and the canny ability to make things out of nothing like Brett Favre. Brady cant do those things, thats why he shouldn't be on the Patriots.

Brady isn't perfect, nor is Moss.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I would not be singing a different tune if the defense held. Moss had a catch in the end zone where the defender fell down. WOW that's amazing.

Edelman showed up and came to play vs the Ravens. So did Faulk. Randy was no where to be found.

Guys like Jennings, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc. are all good deep threats who also work the middle of the field and have an impact in the intermediate passing game. Moss is great at what he does, but I'd much rather have an Andre Johnson who might not have 4.2 speed but will go over the middle and get drilled to pick up the first down.

Take your love for Moss out of the equation and be a realist.

Buffalo has the #2 pass defense b/c they give up like 200 on the ground. Moss built up his stats vs teams like Tennesee and a depleted Colts secondary and two rookie CB's on Miami. He did nothing vs the Jets, Ravens, Denver, Saints.

I'd rather have Andre Johnson than Randy Moss too. I'd also rather have Drew Brees than Tom Brady. So what?

 

[emoney_33]

I'd rather have Andre Johnson than Randy Moss too. I'd also rather have Drew Brees than Tom Brady. So what?

uh oh.....

 

[BradyFTW!]

uh oh.....

Hahaha, did I just commit heresy? I think I did...

Anyways, the point is that just because there's someone else in the entire league that you'd take over the guy that you have doesn't mean that that guy sucks and should be cut. Tom Brady is a hell of a quarterback; maybe the best ever, but there are younger guys coming off of better seasons who haven't suffered significant injuries in each of the last three years. Moss is maybe the best WR ever, but there are younger guys coming off of equally-as-good seasons who don't have as many question marks going into 2010. Doesn't change the fact that they're still both among the best at what they do, and we're lucky to have either one of them, let alone both.