McCourty now has a choice to make

[supafly]

Throughout the year we were one of the worst teams defending passes over 20 yards AGAIN.

I do not believe this is true at all. The NEP made significant improvements on allowing pass plays of 20+ yds this past season.

I actually believe they were in the top 5-10, or at least they were at the end of November the last time I saw the stat posted.

EDIT: Nevermind, you're right. They were somewhere in the 20s. I was thinking of allowing pass plays of 40+ yards, where they came in first this year. http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/foo...014/11/06/patriots-secondary-and-triumph-gtfb

 

[randomk1]

This D transformed after Revis and Browner signed. If McCourty walks so be it

 

[Brady2Moss]

I do not believe this is true at all. The NEP made significant improvements on allowing pass plays of 20+ yds this past season.

I actually believe they were in the top 5-10, or at least they were at the end of November the last time I saw the stat posted.

Believe it

 

[luuked]

McCourty is a good player, not a great one.

That is your opinion. Unless there is an extension until next week, we will see if scouts and personal evaluators that actually get paid for their opinion agree with you.

For the record, I disagree. DMac is closer to Earl Thomas (minus the media hype) than many people give him credit for. The main difference is that our scheme doesn't highlight him as much.

Duron Harmon will give you 60-70% of his production for 5% of the price.

I don't disagree, but in tight games and especially in the playoffs those 30% are a big ****ing difference.

 

[supafly]

Believe it

Like I said, as of their game at the beginning of December vs. Green Bay, they were one of the very best teams in the league at allowing passes of 20+ yards. The game against Green Bay really hurt them in that area.

Here is a quote from patriots.com:

"
A key factor in the Patriots’ improved play on defense has been their ability to limit the really big plays. They’ve been among the NFL leaders in fewest big plays (20 yards) allowed, at least until this past Sunday.

Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers is good, but he was better than good against the New England secondary – which
Darrelle Revis called last week “the most talented secondary” he’s ever played with. Rodgers burned the Pats’ backfield for 368 passing yards , including six plays of more than 25 yards IN THE FIRST HALF…on the way to a 26-21 win at Lambeau Field."

 

[Deus Irae]

Miguel was just on WEEI, educating the masses about hard cash spending.


Way to go, Miguel!

 

[Brady2Moss]

That is your opinion. Unless there is an extension until next week, we will see if scouts and personal evaluators that actually get paid for their opinion agree with you.

For the record, I disagree. DMac is closer to Earl Thomas (minus the media hype) than many people give him credit for. The main difference is that our scheme doesn't highlight him as much.



I don't disagree, but in tight games and especially in the playoffs those 30% are a big ****ing difference.

In tight games, I saw Duron Harmon make a game clinching pick so I'm not too worried about that huge difference.

And you and I both know that a good player can be paid like a great one when he hits free agency. That's obviously one of the issues here potentially. When you're the patriots you can afford to not pay a good player great player money. When you're a pathetic team like the Jags or a team that just got clowned in the AFC Championship game and have a ton of cap space you can pay great player money to a good one. So no, next week won't tell us anything about whether scouts think McCourty is good or great.

 

[luuked]

Like I said, as of their game at the beginning of December vs. Green Bay, they were one of the very best teams in the league at allowing passes of 20+ yards. The game against Green Bay really hurt them in that area.

Here is a quote from patriots.com:

"
A key factor in the Patriots’ improved play on defense has been their ability to limit the really big plays. They’ve been among the NFL leaders in fewest big plays (20 yards) allowed, at least until this past Sunday.

Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers is good, but he was better than good against the New England secondary – which
Darrelle Revis called last week “the most talented secondary” he’s ever played with. Rodgers burned the Pats’ backfield for 368 passing yards , including six plays of more than 25 yards IN THE FIRST HALF…on the way to a 26-21 win at Lambeau Field."

And the majority of those passes was into tight windows against good/great coverage. Which is something that at some point you can't prevent and you have to tip your hat to it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I hope things work out with D-Mac. Not just a great player but a great person for the community. He represents the Patriots Way from every perspective.

If Earl Thomas is worth $10M per year, I think McCourty is worth somewhere between $7-8M. Of course, all it takes is one team to go crazy. I suspect he'll get an offer in the $8-9M range, and then we'll see how important it is for him to remain a Patriot.

 

[supafly]

In tight games, I saw Duron Harmon make a game clinching pick so I'm not too worried about that huge difference.

While the Harmon pick was obviously critical in helping our postseason run, I don't think too many here are going to share your enthusiasm based on the example of one play.

 

[luuked]

In tight games, I saw Duron Harmon make a game clinching pick so I'm not too worried about that huge difference.

Against the Raiders Vince also had a game clinching pick.. by that logic maybe we should also try him as safety..

 

[Brady2Moss]

While the Harmon pick was obviously critical in helping our postseason run, I don't think too many here are going to share your enthusiasm based on the example of one play.

Just saying that acting like Duron Harmon will definitely cost us in the playoffs isn't necessarily true. My enthusiasm isn't based on one play. It's based on the fact that McCourty doesn't make a huge amount of plays and we have issues defending the deep pass.

In a capless world you keep McCourty. I'd rather give the money to Revis. That's just my opinion.

 

[Wheelman]

In tight games, I saw Duron Harmon make a game clinching pick so I'm not too worried about that huge difference.

And you and I both know that a good player can be paid like a great one when he hits free agency. That's obviously one of the issues here potentially. When you're the patriots you can afford to not pay a good player great player money. When you're a pathetic team like the Jags or a team that just got clowned in the AFC Championship game and have a ton of cap space you can pay great player money to a good one. So no, next week won't tell us anything about whether scouts think McCourty is good or great.

And Duron Harmon wouldn't even have made that play if the offense didn't stall after McCourty made a far superior pick earlier. Watch the difference between the two picks. McCourty is going before Flacco even throws the ball. I'm not sure Harmon could have done that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just saying that acting like Duron Harmon will definitely cost us in the playoffs isn't necessarily true. My enthusiasm isn't based on one play. It's based on the fact that McCourty doesn't make a huge amount of plays and we have issues defending the deep pass.

In a capless world you keep McCourty. I'd rather give the money to Revis. That's just my opinion.

If Harmon is your starting safety, instead of McCourty, you're losing more games.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Against the Raiders Vince also had a game clinching pick.. by that logic maybe we should also try him as safety..

You were pointing out that in the playoffs a 30% reduction could cost us, I made an equally meaningless point that he made an interception to clinch a playoff game.

You need to figure in that with the money you save from McCourty you can add a guard like Iupati or a defensive lineman to improve your pass rush.

McCourty vs. Harmon who gives you 60% of McCourty + 8 million dollars to play with and retaining Revis? I'll take the latter.

 

[Brady2Moss]

If Harmon is your starting safety, instead of McCourty, you're losing more games.

Harmon + 8 million in cap space doesn't necessarily mean you lose more games.

 

[supafly]

In a capless world you keep McCourty. I'd rather give the money to Revis. That's just my opinion.

That's cool. I don't blame you for your opinion, as there's not necessarily a right/wrong answer here if it really is between Revis/McCourty.

I'm just pointing out the fact that I'm not sure we can take all that much from the one pick by Harmon, as crucial as it obviously was for the SB run, that's all.

 

[Brady2Moss]

That's cool. I don't blame you for your opinion, as there's not necessarily a right/wrong answer here if it really is between Revis/McCourty.

I'm just pointing out the fact that I'm not sure we can take all that much from the one pick by Harmon, as crucial as it obviously was for the SB run, that's all.

It was more to illustrate that you can't say for sure that Harmon would cost you a game, as there is some evidence of him not blowing a playoff game.

I'd like McCourty for 7 million max, if it goes to 11 million like Byrd, which it most likely will...see ya later

 

[FibSeq13478]

And Duron Harmon wouldn't even have made that play if the offense didn't stall after McCourty made a far superior pick earlier. Watch the difference between the two picks. McCourty is going before Flacco even throws the ball. I'm not sure Harmon could have done that.

That was a great play by McCourty. A couple of plays before Harmon's interception, McCourty had an opportunity to end the game but he allowed his man, Owen Daniels to get wide open on a 4th down pass- he is a good player capable of some great plays but his market this year will probably pay him like a great player, unfortunately for pats. It won't help that he will be comparing his deal to his seriously overpaid brother who is an average corner at best.

 

[luuked]

It's based on the fact that McCourty doesn't make a huge amount of plays and we have issues defending the deep pass.

Seriously, stop writing and read up (or look at some All22 tape) on what DMac's role in our defense is. While the damn camera shows you the ball going to one side of the field, he is part of the reason the other side (that often contains the big name receivers) is not thrown towards by the QB. His range limits a lot of throws the opponent QB can do safely.

That consistent "doesn't make a huge amount of plays" from people is getting annoying. It is very similar to the folks in game threads that are angry that Gronk is "not used often enough" in a game even though his presence alone creates mismatches. In the same way DMac doesn't need to be at the place a play goes towards to have an effect on the play.