Manning to the Jets?

[Paul_Newman]

The Colts are going to let him go. They have to. I know the CBA for rookies is significantly lower, but they still got to put a team around Luck when they draft him. And you do not draft a guy like Luck just to sit him.

I doubt Manning will want to sit around and play tutor. These guys want to play, not prepare the next guy for their demise.


I see Manning playing for the Jets, Ravens, or Cowboys next year. Three teams that can contend. Three teams that might feel its time for an upgrade to go the next level.

Manning would be scary on any one of those teams. QB play is all that's holding those teams back from a SB.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Manning isn't going to an AFCE team... It took him and Polian years to get out of there and Peyton ain't going back as long as Bill and Tom are here...

Peyton isn't going to a cold weather, outdoor team in his dotage...

He also isn't going to a team that sees itself as a contender absent a QB because they likely aren't and they likely don't have the personnel on offense to suit his skillset. And he isn't adopting or adapting to some OC's version of an offense at 36. He's not Favre.

It's highly unlikely either Manning or Luck would "allow" themselves to be put in the situation of mentor and student for lots of reasons, not the least of which is absent another first round pick and with Mathis and Wayne to be paid or replaced in addition to all their existing needs...it wouldn't be a good situation for either going forward.

If Luck comes out it's likely his agent will be...Tom Condon, same as Peyton and Eli. He will not allow either of his assets to be placed in a position that potentially could cost either or both millions...as was the case when Eli didn't want to go to SD (where Brees was still starting and represented a potential obstacle). He will want Luck to have ascended to the point that in 3 years they pick up his option at the franchise tag price and/or are prepared to pay him the big bucks as soon as year 4. He will simultaneously want Peyton to retain leverage to be paid through 2015... Can't happen.

Manning will either play for Indy next season or he won't play at all. They won't cut him unless they believe he cannot play. Otherwise the fallout of going with Luck and possibly watching Manning succeed elsewhere would be potentially disasterous. They can't trade him because if they pick up the option they are on the hook for $44M in dead cap and if they don't he's on a one year $28M guaranteed salary deal that would make his trade value negligible...and provide little to no incentive for him to renegotiate it to facilitate any deal that replaces him in Indy after the legacy he built for that moribund franchise over the last 13 seasons...

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Are you stupid or something son? There's no "Win Now" mode for any team as long as we're winning it this year and next year. So keep posting your gloomy thoughts. They keep getting funnier every day.

Well, it looks like someone in the village idiot section has taken an interest.

Let me ****** it down for you.

"Winning" means more games won than lost. "Win now" refers to a Lombardi.

Baltimore, San Fransisco, and the Jets and (Dallas) are teams who can be classified as teams Super Bowl ready sans QB.

Also, what happenings in ******land points to "gloomy"? I don't care.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Maybe you didn't hear about this?

You can't just rip this up and draft a new deal, as far as I am aware. You trade for both player and contract.

Given that some of this is bonus money, I'm sure that the Colts are partly on the hook. But still, 5 years at 90 mil! This includes $53M over the next 2 years ($16M this season). Cutting him past the date allowed in his contract would result in about a $22M hit, I believe. So there are major cap ramifications.

With the risk Manning poses I don't see why any team would be willing to take this deal on. I have a hard time being sold on this win now argument you present considering failure would likely result in about 2-3 years of irrelevance while cap space and draft picks are replenished.

When I think of win now, I think of taking a gamble for one season but still being in position to move on the next year. Not sacrificing two or even three full seasons.

What contract is written in stone? If both sides want to void a contract, it gets voided and/or renegotiated.

Geesh, this is simple north of dumb.

What's Manning's objective at this point?

Money?
Lombardi's?
Place in history?

I don't know but if he is worried about Lombardi's, it ain't happin in Indy.

What would you do if your single objective was another Super Bowl? Ya really going to fight over a few million?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Does anyone on this board seriously think that IF and I say IF Indy trades off Manning, they would do so within the AFC? What a joke. Plus if Indy got Luck, Do you think they start him imediately or possibly keep Manning till Luck was ready. All such mindless dribble.

Were you around in 1998, Manning's first year?

 

[Jackson 2]

The Colts are going to let him go. They have to. I know the CBA for rookies is significantly lower, but they still got to put a team around Luck when they draft him. And you do not draft a guy like Luck just to sit him.

I doubt Manning will want to sit around and play tutor. These guys want to play, not prepare the next guy for their demise.


I see Manning playing for the Jets, Ravens, or Cowboys next year. Three teams that can contend. Three teams that might feel its time for an upgrade to go the next level.

Manning would be scary on any one of those teams. QB play is all that's holding those teams back from a SB.

Hey, welcome back Polly!!!

 

[jcdavey]

makes more sense to groom luck to take over for peyton, if peyton can start another year or two

ala the packers way with favre/rodgers

even though favre said grooming wasn't his job lol

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, it looks like someone in the village idiot section has taken an interest.

Let me ****** it down for you.

"Winning" means more games won than lost. "Win now" refers to a Lombardi.

Baltimore, San Fransisco, and the Jets and (Dallas) are teams who can be classified as teams Super Bowl ready sans QB.

Also, what happenings in ******land points to "gloomy"? I don't care.

I'll leave the insult trading to you and "Andys," but I don't see Isray sending Peyton to any AFC team. I don't think you can count the Shanahan-led Redskins out of the mix. Romo is due $12 and $13 big ones against the cap in 2012 and 13. Not sure about San Fran; they seem committed to Smith, but you never know.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

makes more sense to groom luck to take over for peyton, if peyton can start another year or two

ala the packers way with favre/rodgers

even though favre said grooming wasn't his job lol

Grooming hasn't been Manning's job either except where his receivers are concerned. In fact the whispers out of Indy include that coaches had no shot at developing any backup behind him because he won't allow them any meaningful reps even in practice. And Rodgers had no leverage after being selected #24... He had no choice but to sit. Luck if he is the #1 come draft day will have lots of leverage and Irsay watched what happened when another #1 QB refused to sign with his Daddy's Colts...as well as what happened when another Manning refused to sign with your Superchargers...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Colts are going to let him go. They have to. I know the CBA for rookies is significantly lower, but they still got to put a team around Luck when they draft him. And you do not draft a guy like Luck just to sit him.

I doubt Manning will want to sit around and play tutor. These guys want to play, not prepare the next guy for their demise.


I see Manning playing for the Jets, Ravens, or Cowboys next year. Three teams that can contend. Three teams that might feel its time for an upgrade to go the next level.

Manning would be scary on any one of those teams. QB play is all that's holding those teams back from a SB.

Good to see you've recovered from the Patriots sweeping your Jets

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...

Manning will either play for Indy next season or he won't play at all. They won't cut him unless they believe he cannot play. Otherwise the fallout of going with Luck and possibly watching Manning succeed elsewhere would be potentially disasterous. They can't trade him because if they pick up the option they are on the hook for $44M in dead cap and if they don't he's on a one year $28M guaranteed salary deal that would make his trade value negligible...and provide little to no incentive for him to renegotiate it to facilitate any deal that replaces him in Indy after the legacy he built for that moribund franchise over the last 13 seasons...

Thoughtful comments as always, Mo.

I think your assessment of the dilemma that Isray faces is accurate. Manning and Luck together are not only expensive, but also could very well put Luck in the position of not getting on the field very much for his first three years, if indeed Manning recovers from his neck injury in such a way that he can still play at his level for another two or three years.

Unlike you, though, I could see Manning going to an NFC team that is well-coached and has some, if not all, of the pieces in place to make a serious run over a two or three year period. But, it would be a tough card to play, I admit that.

Two teams that fit that bill are Washington with Shanahan and San Francisco with Jim Harbaugh. However, both play outside in some challenging elements and that might not set with Manning. Philadelphia has similar weather and stadium issues plus $40 big ones guaranteed to a fading Michael Vick, so that probably rules them out even though I still consider Andy Reid an elite coach. However, I don't think it's out of the question that Jerry Jones might be willing to take the risk that he can unload all or most of Tony Romo's cap hit.

For Manning, the bottom line is that he has nothing to prove stats-wise and has had his ticket to Canton punched for years. So, in that sense he could play almost anywhere without tarnishing his brand. But the idea of playing for a hungry Jerry Jones with big bucks invested in the current team could be appealing to him, especially if the 'Boys don't make the playoffs this year and Jones goes Coach Shopping among the likes of Bill Cowher and, well, um, Tony Dungy.

In the end, it's a tough one, but I don't think it's out of the question.

 

[TheSolderKing]

Indy would want Draft Picks. I do not see them straight up releasing him when they can get picks in a trade.

if Peyton were a NYJ I'd ****.

 

[robbomango]

Indy would want Draft Picks. I do not see them straight up releasing him when they can get picks in a trade.

if Peyton were a NYJ I'd ****.

it's been nice having a break from the brady vs manning saga this season. I feel like it's a thing of the past. Imagine dealing with jets fans for the next for 4 years on that debate with aid from colts fans.:deadhorse:

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I'll leave the insult trading to you and "Andys," but I don't see Isray sending Peyton to any AFC team. I don't think you can count the Shanahan-led Redskins out of the mix. Romo is due $12 and $13 big ones against the cap in 2012 and 13. Not sure about San Fran; they seem committed to Smith, but you never know.

There is a difference between probable and feasible.

Would I bet on a trade? No

Given certain criteria, a trade would be feasible. I don't get why people would be so dismissive, so quickly.

This particular trait seems to be a continual problem around here.

 

[Zeus]

Manning's contract is $90 million over 5 years. The original reports said that $54 million was guaranteed, but that was not true. Subsequently, we learned that there is a $28 million club option bonus in Year 2 that is due on the fifth day prior to the end of the 2011 league year (which will occur sometime in late February 2012). If the Colts cut Manning before that date, they don't have to pay the option bonus, making the real guaranteed amount $26 million. Nonpayment of the bonus would make Manning an unrestricted free agent.

If the Colts decide to part company with Manning before the cutoff date, there are off the hook, with more manageable salary cap implications. If they keep him, they are committed for at least 3 more years because cutting him would trigger significant a salary cap hit.

The contract makes Manning untradeable. No one would take on the contract and give away draft picks of any significance.

No matter what anyone in Indianapolis is saying now, it makes no sense for the Colts to keep Manning and draft Andrew Luck. Irsay and the Polians will have a brutally tough call to make. If they keep Manning, they may well look to trade the pick to jumpstart a badly needed rebuilding process. They could cut Manning and attempt to reach a new deal with him but he would be an unrestricted free agent at that point, so who knows where that would lead.

There's no way Manning plays this year, making the Colts' decision that much harder because they won't get to see him perform under game conditions. His recovery is far from a sure thing. My guess right now is that the Colts do not pick up the option and that Manning retires.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Manning's contract is $90 million over 5 years. The original reports said that $54 million was guaranteed, but that was not true. Subsequently, we learned that there is a $28 million club option bonus in Year 2 that is due on the fifth day prior to the end of the 2011 league year (which will occur sometime in late February 2012). If the Colts cut Manning before that date, they don't have to pay the option bonus, making the real guaranteed amount $26 million. Nonpayment of the bonus would make Manning an unrestricted free agent.

If the Colts decide to part company with Manning before the cutoff date, there are off the hook, with modest salary cap implications. If they keep him, they are committed for at least 3 more years because cutting him would trigger significant a salary cap hit.

The contract makes Manning untradeable. No one would take on the contract and give away draft picks of any significance.

No matter what anyone in Indianapolis is saying now, it makes no sense for the Colts to keep Manning and draft Andrew Luck. Irsay and the Polians will have a brutally tough call to make. If they keep Manning, they may well look to trade the pick to jumpstart a badly needed rebuilding process. They could cut Manning and attempt to reach a new deal with him but he would be an unrestricted free agent at that point, so who knows where that would lead.

There's no way Manning plays this year, making the Colts' decision that much harder because they won't get to see him perform under game conditions. His recovery is far from a sure thing. My guess right now is that the Colts do not pick up the option and that Manning retires.

It would certainly be one of the most interesting off season dramas if this were to unfold.

 

[TheSolderKing]

nice insight Zeus.



I hope he does retire when the Colts decline to pick up his option.



Both Manning's in New Jersey would be an ESPNesque type story and I fear that thing would push Peyton to play longer and the BRETT FARVE in him will make him reluctant to retire, since Manning will be chasing and setting records. It is all ego and that is what worries me b/c the dude won't retire if he has a very good opportunity to be part of a very solid team.

I'm feeling uneasy

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Thoughtful comments as always, Mo. I think your assessment of the dilemma that Isray faces is accurate. Manning and Luck together are not only expensive, but also could very well put Luck in the position of not getting on the field very much for his first three years, if indeed Manning recovers from his neck injury in such a way that he can still play at his level for another two or three years.

Unlike you, though, I could see Manning going to an NFC team that is well-coached and has some, if not all, of the pieces in place to make a serious run over a two or three year period. But, it would be a tough card to play, I admit that.

Two teams that fit that bill are Washington with Shanahan and San Francisco with Jim Harbaugh. However, both play outside in some challenging elements and that might not set with Manning. Philadelphia has similar weather and stadium issues plus $40 big ones guaranteed to a fading Michael Vick, so that probably rules them out even though I still consider Andy Reid an elite coach. However, I don't think it's out of the question that Jerry Jones might be willing to take the risk that he can unload all or most ofTony Romo's cap hit.

For Manning, the bottom line is that he has nothing to prove stats-wise and has had his ticket to Canton punched for years. So, in that sense he could play almost anywhere without tarnishing his brand. But the idea of playing for a hungry Jerry Jones with big bucks invested in the current team could be appealing to him, especially if the 'Boys don't make the playoffs this year and Jones goes Coach Shopping among the likes of Bill Cowher and, well, um,Tony Dungy.

In the end, it's a tough one, but I don't think it's out of the question.

In the relm of never say never, nothing is ever entirely out of the question. That said, I don't think Manning's personality would mesh with the Shannahan's (and there are two of them nowadays). And the other Harbaugh seems to have found his QB...and he is his at this juncture since everyone wrote him off and he's making the coach look like a genius... Seattle would be another contender because Paul Allen has the $$$ and Pete has the poodle temperement to let Manning run the offense and just high five him a lot...just don't have the talent and as with any contender for his services the issue would be how long will it take me to build an offense that best suits me vs. how long I got left...outside a dome in a town where it rains incessantly. He'd never go to Dallas for similar reasons as Washington. Plus none of them would have the cap space to retool an offense to suit him without gutting the rest of their team. And he isn't going to roll the dice and rework a deal that guarantees him $28M for just one more season...

Cowher and Dungy will never coach in Dallas, either. Too many egos and too many pitfalls based on the grocery shopper, as Tuna can attest to. Cowher will want total football ops control wherever he eventually goes. And personally I think Dungy is content on a network after catching lightening in a bottle in Indy...

And you can't unload cap hit per se, just future salary. Dead cap remains and Romo's got increased this season when in order to free up cap space they added 3 phony voidable extension years to his in order to convert most of his $9M salary into signing bonus. So they would be on the hook for at least several million in dead cap if they cut or traded him. Add that to $28M for a year of Manning...and even Jerry couldn't make that work, let alone while retooling an offense to provide the kind of precision weapons Manning needs to work with in his offense... For all his gifts, precision isn't one of Dez's...

And I have always cringed at the thought that Andy Reid is an elite anything... He had an elite DC for many years, and an elite QB for a couple, but his handling of offense and game management and personnel/roster decisions long ago led me to believe he's a media spun fabrication as a great HC...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Manning's contract is $90 million over 5 years. The original reports said that $54 million was guaranteed, but that was not true. Subsequently, we learned that there is a $28 million club option bonus in Year 2 that is due on the fifth day prior to the end of the 2011 league year (which will occur sometime in late February 2012). If the Colts cut Manning before that date, they don't have to pay the option bonus, making the real guaranteed amount $26 million. Nonpayment of the bonus would make Manning an unrestricted free agent.

If the Colts decide to part company with Manning before the cutoff date, there are off the hook, with more manageable salary cap implications. If they keep him, they are committed for at least 3 more years because cutting him would trigger significant a salary cap hit.

The contract makes Manning untradeable. No one would take on the contract and give away draft picks of any significance.

No matter what anyone in Indianapolis is saying now, it makes no sense for the Colts to keep Manning and draft Andrew Luck. Irsay and the Polians will have a brutally tough call to make. If they keep Manning, they may well look to trade the pick to jumpstart a badly needed rebuilding process. They could cut Manning and attempt to reach a new deal with him but he would be an unrestricted free agent at that point, so who knows where that would lead.

There's no way Manning plays this year, making the Colts' decision that much harder because they won't get to see him perform under game conditions. His recovery is far from a sure thing. My guess right now is that the Colts do not pick up the option and that Manning retires.

If you consider a $16M dead cap hit in 2012 modest... They can also simply not exercise the option and his 2012 salary becomes guaranteed and the contract ends after 2012. That is the only way they could theoretically trade him because their dead cap would remain at $16M with all the salary going to the team they traded him to. Thing is you won't find a team willing to trade for him on a 1 year $28M basis even for middling picks because they will know that Indy is in a bind ($32M 2012 cap hit and $12M dead cap hit in 2013) and would not be parting with him if they thought he had more than a season left if that...

Peyton gave them an opt out to avoid a $54M cap hit if he was unable to play going forward. He still wanted and got $26M just for trying (because it was playing football for them that landed him in this predicament). He isn't going to cooperate with any deal that trades him because it was his intent in agreeing to this deal that he retire as a Colt. He also gave them a break in part with the understanding that Polian would use the savings to build a better team around him over his last 5 years in Indy. Saw no signs of that happening heading into this season. Now they have a chance to reap the rewards of sucking in his absence big time on draft day. If instead they choose to simply )draft his replacement, he will likely realize he got bs'ed (and Condon likely warned him that was always a possibility) so it's likely he will once again defer to Condon in managing what, if anything, remains of his career... Tom Condon's only loyalties lie with himself and his clients in and of the moment. One of whom will likely also be named Luck.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

There is a difference between probable and feasible.

Would I bet on a trade? No

Given certain criteria, a trade would be feasible. I don't get why people would be so dismissive, so quickly.

This particular trait seems to be a continual problem around here.

I'm not being dismissive but am trying to address the issue you raise in a thoughtful manner.

I just don't appreciate rude comments.