Last chance for Cassel verus San Francisco

[MoLewisrocks]

That doesn't make Cassel a better QB. Before the season started, few on this board wanted him on the team. The patriots can go to the playoffs with Cassel. We have a weak enough schedule and a solid enough team. The defense will need to play better. I just think that we would have a better chance in the playoff run and in the playoffs if we were to secure a better QB. I think that Belichick has decided the O'Connell won't be ready this year and Gute never will be ready. This argues for at least a backup veteran for the squad instead of Gute.

Just BTW, the backup vet should be signed to a contract through 2009 so we won't need to pressure Brady to come back too early next year.

Few on this board have a clue beyond what they hear from the media or think they see in pre season scrimmages...

Why do you persist in assuming that the term veteran equals better? Bill said yesterday in his PC that the ability to make reads has less to do with experience than capacity. He obviously doesn't see a veteran out there with the capacity to run this team. He apparently hasn't seen one beyond Vinny or Flutie or Miller over the last 7 years and each of them were aging or injured to the point they really couldn't have played with any consistency for any stretch of time. They were here to mentor and be a veteran presence and in game emergency stop gap. Cassel already provided that stop gap 2 games of transition service in 2008 coming in in week one after a devastating injury to Brady and now he's become the transition to the young inexperienced guy who at least knows the offense and will be coached up to run it as the starter. He represents 2 for the price of 1.

They likely will sign a veteran presence of some sort in the off season because Cassel is a UFA, but primarily to mentor O'Connell and serve as a short term transitional stop gap to him in case O'Connell is showing signs of his development lagging. You won't get that expensive veteran backup starter so many of you :blahblah: about unless O'Connell tanks entering his sophomore season, as apparently Gutierrez did...because only at that juncture with a rehabbing Brady will that player represent sufficient value to consume both a roster spot and significant cap space.

 

[emoney_33]

I get it. Matt Cassel gets to start his first games since HS, learn the pro game, improve all year, and then go get a job for another team. In the meantime, we hope to make the playoffs. A team that was SB favorites three weeks ago are playoff maybes with a HS QB.

Why is it worse to get a veteran who will improve as he learns the system, and has no upside potential, but who gives us an NFL experienced QB for the playoffs? After all, Cassel's upside potential will be realized in 2009 or 2010 for some other team.

I agree that we most likely will never get the benefits of whatever ceiling Cassel has, assuming he doesn't completely flop. However remember our ultimate goal is to be playing our best in January, not in September. I think the front office believes Cassel's contributions later in the year will outweigh any other available veteran. Although it is possible that a guy like Garcia may be viewed as a better option however the cost of future picks is to great for a one year run. Taking everything into consideration I believe that Cassel gives the Patriots the best opportunity to stay true to their mission statement. I mean I am sure there many ways we can improve for only this year, but at what cost for the future ya know?

 

[MassPats38]

Just a few basic questions for those advocating acquiring a veteran QB. Where will this great veteran backup be coming from? Where will the money be coming from to pay him? What will be his impact on Cassel's play while the veteran figures out the offense given the head coach's statement that Cassel is the starting QB (Cassel is not a moron, so the mid-season addition of this veteran back-up may signal a loss of confidence in you by the head coach)? And this great veteran back-up, knowing no QB on the planet will replace Brady next year, will accept this multi-year deal why? Because backing-up Tom Brady looks great on your resume? Good QBs tend to take career steps to get themselves a starting role, not a back-up role.

I cannot say Cassel is a great QB based on the limited information I have. I hope he stands as a consistent, adequate QB after a few regular season games, great would be gravy. As for those claiming pre-season opinions matter, nobody seriously considered Brady would be out for the season given his streak of consecutive games, so comparisons based on exhibited physical abilities in the pre-season rather than experience running the Patriots' offense really mean little. I figured he would be gone as a back-up but now figure he is the best available starter under the circumstances. The role of starting QB will not be a trial and error experiment as each trial likely means a few consecutive losses, so I would venture a guess Belichick would prefer to game plan around known deficiencies rather than start from scratch with a replacement.

 

[JSn]

Why do you persist in assuming that the term veteran equals better? Bill said yesterday in his PC that the ability to make reads has less to do with experience than capacity. He obviously doesn't see a veteran out there with the capacity to run this team.

My Grandfather is a war Veteran. He would currently make a very sucky soldier, though.

What makes a guy a veteran? Playing time. Cassel is getting playing time. I can't even think about rehashing all the arguments (from almost sound to outright stupid), but this season is closely mirroring 2001 except that we didn't start with two losses, so in that stat alone, we're ahead of the game.

Cassel will be Cassel. Only Brady is Brady and that's that, but every year, some team wins the superbowl and lots of times it's not the team that's favoured to win. 18 wins didn't get us a Lombardi, but it did re-write the record books. Now we're back in the trenches with a few savvy war vets and a lot of guys fresh out of boot camp. That's the way war is always fought and in football somebody always wins. In war, strategy is just as important as the soldiers you have, and lots of battles have been won by the underdogs because they were smarter.

Anyway, I didn't mean to kill the analogy. I'm just saying, the team has to play smarter and more sound, fundamental football. You won't have to chase a receiver if you kept him covered, and you won't have to speed up reads if your blockers block. This year is all about team and I'm personally not lacking confidence.

As a kid I learned a lot from the odd boot in the a$s. I'm sure the Pats will too.

 

[luisrha]

If this team does not sign a vet at QB within the next 7 days then you can likely expect the 3 musketeers we have on the QB depth chart to be the guys to finish the season although it may be Gutz or O'Connell to start if Cassel continues to suck

He had ONE bad game. Not even disastrous, just a bad one. And I'm pretty sure 14-15 starters had a worse performance that day... you want to bench them?

Why is it worse to get a veteran who will improve as he learns the system, and has no upside potential, but who gives us an NFL experienced QB for the playoffs? After all, Cassel's upside potential will be realized in 2009 or 2010 for some other team.

Mmmm... who?

 

[Leave No Doubt]

MG brought up an interesting point about Brady's readiness next year. Obviously we assume he'll be ok because he's TFB after all , but that got me thinking about how BB's not only planning for the NOW but also how he's planning the future (we know he's always got one eye in each time zone lol).

Not to jump ahead too far here, but if BB rolls with Cassel and uses O'C occasionally as the situation warrants, then next year O'C becomes our backup to Tom after Cassel leaves? But if Tom's not ready for whatever reason then O'C should be ready to at least handle some preseason and maybe game 1.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this except to ask how you think this will pan out in 09? Not to divert from the vet QB controversy but pretend there's no vet in the picture and then predict the 09 transitional scenario. Maybe my brains just fell out thinking too hard but a lot of next season's QB situation could depend on how ready O'C looks, not Cassel (assuming he'll be gone). This, if true, reinforces my thinking that BB rolls with Cassel while using O'C in certain situations rather than Gutz or a vet because it will become very important to assess O'C if at all possible. Not sure this makes sense but here goes anyway... "submit reply"

 

[Jimke]

Matt Cassel will remain the quarterback so long as the Pats have

any chance of making the playoffs. The only way Belichick might

go to O'Connell over Cassel is if the offensive line continues to play

poorly. O'Connell played behind a porous offensive line in college

and is a scrambler. He is better at throwing on the run.

 

[mgteich]

Any Tampa Bay QB that they are willing to trade

He had ONE bad game. Not even disastrous, just a bad one. And I'm pretty sure 14-15 starters had a worse performance that day... you want to bench them?




Mmmm... who?

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Few on this board have a clue beyond what they hear from the media or think they see in pre season scrimmages...

Why do you persist in assuming that the term veteran equals better? Bill said yesterday in his PC that the ability to make reads has less to do with experience than capacity. He obviously doesn't see a veteran out there with the capacity to run this team. He apparently hasn't seen one beyond Vinny or Flutie or Miller over the last 7 years and each of them were aging or injured to the point they really couldn't have played with any consistency for any stretch of time. They were here to mentor and be a veteran presence and in game emergency stop gap. Cassel already provided that stop gap 2 games of transition service in 2008 coming in in week one after a devastating injury to Brady and now he's become the transition to the young inexperienced guy who at least knows the offense and will be coached up to run it as the starter. He represents 2 for the price of 1.

They likely will sign a veteran presence of some sort in the off season because Cassel is a UFA, but primarily to mentor O'Connell and serve as a short term transitional stop gap to him in case O'Connell is showing signs of his development lagging. You won't get that expensive veteran backup starter so many of you :blahblah: about unless O'Connell tanks entering his sophomore season, as apparently Gutierrez did...because only at that juncture with a rehabbing Brady will that player represent sufficient value to consume both a roster spot and significant cap space.

Bingo-I guess there's my answer. So if that's the plan then BB may still need to check O'C out a bit this season as warranted but it won't be as critical to do so, and bring in a vet at that point just to help him out. A lot will depend on Brady's progress too I'm sure.

 

[mgteich]

So, we have one of the best teams of all time. We will reduce the offense to what Cassel can handle (reduce the number reads etc.), count on the defense and ST's to win games, and hope. In short, we'll make believe that this team is as weak as the 2001 team, and hope that Cassel performs as good as Brady in 2001.

Personally, I think that this a great misuse of talent. And no one is saying ANY veteran is better than Cassel. We don't know who would be best. Our best guess in Garcia, who the vast majority of posters indicated in a recent poll would give us a better chance to be deep in the playoffs tha Cassel.

And BTW, we can spend the next offseason speculating on when Brady will be on the field and when he will be 100%, counting on Gut and O'Connell if Brady isn't ready, and calling ourselves unlucky beacuse we couldn't deal with a situation that was foreseeable for a full year.

Just a few basic questions for those advocating acquiring a veteran QB. Where will this great veteran backup be coming from? Where will the money be coming from to pay him? What will be his impact on Cassel's play while the veteran figures out the offense given the head coach's statement that Cassel is the starting QB (Cassel is not a moron, so the mid-season addition of this veteran back-up may signal a loss of confidence in you by the head coach)? And this great veteran back-up, knowing no QB on the planet will replace Brady next year, will accept this multi-year deal why? Because backing-up Tom Brady looks great on your resume? Good QBs tend to take career steps to get themselves a starting role, not a back-up role.

I cannot say Cassel is a great QB based on the limited information I have. I hope he stands as a consistent, adequate QB after a few regular season games, great would be gravy. As for those claiming pre-season opinions matter, nobody seriously considered Brady would be out for the season given his streak of consecutive games, so comparisons based on exhibited physical abilities in the pre-season rather than experience running the Patriots' offense really mean little. I figured he would be gone as a back-up but now figure he is the best available starter under the circumstances. The role of starting QB will not be a trial and error experiment as each trial likely means a few consecutive losses, so I would venture a guess Belichick would prefer to game plan around known deficiencies rather than start from scratch with a replacement.

 

[Deus Irae]

Any Tampa Bay QB that they are willing to trade

Griese:

Brian Griese Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
QB ratings for the past 2 seasons and beginning of this one..
62.0
75.6
71.3

Garcia:

Jeff Garcia Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
How'd he do in Cleveland and Detroit? For that matter, game 1 of this season wasn't exactly one for the ages, either.

McCown? Johnson?

 

[Ring 6]

Any Tampa Bay QB that they are willing to trade

They all suck

 

[Ring 6]

So, we have one of the best teams of all time. We will reduce the offense to what Cassel can handle (reduce the number reads etc.), count on the defense and ST's to win games, and hope. In short, we'll make believe that this team is as weak as the 2001 team, and hope that Cassel performs as good as Brady in 2001.

Personally, I think that this a great misuse of talent. And no one is saying ANY veteran is better than Cassel. We don't know who would be best. Our best guess in Garcia, who the vast majority of posters indicated in a recent poll would give us a better chance to be deep in the playoffs tha Cassel.

And BTW, we can spend the next offseason speculating on when Brady will be on the field and when he will be 100%, counting on Gut and O'Connell if Brady isn't ready, and calling ourselves unlucky beacuse we couldn't deal with a situation that was foreseeable for a full year.

Mg,
I think that BB is saying that Cassel gives us a better chance, even if a poll on an internet message board says differently.
Are you say the collective "we" are right and BB is wrong? Or are you trying to predict what BB is going to do?
If BB has made no effort to acquire Garcia are you saying he is wrong and he is better than Cassel, but BB is stupid?

 

[Sicilian]

They all suck

What's the old addage... "If you've got two QBs, you don't have any."

So, what does it mean when you have FOUR?

 

[NEPatriot]

Mg,
I think that BB is saying that Cassel gives us a better chance, even if a poll on an internet message board says differently.
Are you say the collective "we" are right and BB is wrong? Or are you trying to predict what BB is going to do?
If BB has made no effort to acquire Garcia are you saying he is wrong and he is better than Cassel, but BB is stupid?

perhaps, the 'price' is not right?

 

[NEPatriot]

How many of you believe that we are going to have a blown out game next Sunday?

 

[Sicilian]

How many of you believe that we are going to have a blown out game next Sunday?

In which direction?

 

[mgteich]

No Belichick isn't stupid because he doesn't do what fans want him to do.

Belichick makes his tradeoffs and takes his risks. Last year (and the year before) he decided a 5th RB wasn't worth the roster spot. This year he changed his mind. Were we right and Belichick 'stupid"? I don't know the cost of Garcia. Maybe Belichick doesn't want to rent a player for a 2nd or 3rd round draft choice. Maybe he believes that the team should be able to step up with Cassel. Maybe he still believes in Brady's physical invincability and will be ready for mini-camp and that O'Connell will be good enough to be the #2 at that point. I don't know what Belichick is thinking. I simply find it difficult to believe that Cassel and Gutierrez give us the best shot at the playoffs and as a potential backup in 2009. If Cassel is there until he fails, can it hurt to have a Garcia as our #2?

Mg,
I think that BB is saying that Cassel gives us a better chance, even if a poll on an internet message board says differently.
Are you say the collective "we" are right and BB is wrong? Or are you trying to predict what BB is going to do?
If BB has made no effort to acquire Garcia are you saying he is wrong and he is better than Cassel, but BB is stupid?

 

[mgteich]

Please post a list of all Gutierrez and Cassel's NFL starts with their QB ratings. I understand for most here, NFL experience is not worth much.

Griese:

Brian Griese Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
QB ratings for the past 2 seasons and beginning of this one..
62.0
75.6
71.3

Garcia:

Jeff Garcia Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
How'd he do in Cleveland and Detroit? For that matter, game 1 of this season wasn't exactly one for the ages, either.

McCown? Johnson?

 

[NEPatriot]

In which direction?

Our direction. Considering that we have 1 week off, I would love to see our O blows away SF D. If we don't, i don't know what to say.