Last chance for Cassel verus San Francisco

[PATRIOT64]

"accurate as hell"


Garcia: Career comp%: 61.2
Cassel: Career comp%: 63.1


You sir are a moron who doesn't know football. You have proven it with countless posts. Can you just leave already, go follow all the other teams that have QB's not named Cassel.

I know McBee is FAR FAR FAR from a decent poster but where do you come off with dumb stats like comparing Cassel to Garcia percentage??? - I may be wrong but Garcia has played in MANY MANY MANY more games than Cassel and here you are comparing percentages and you say you know football?

For instance ...

Cassel 50 attempts in career out of 100 completions would give him a 50.0 comp%

Garcia 500 attempts in career out of 1,100 completions would give him less and you give the nod in a better comp% to a raw Cassel with your juiced up bogus stats??

Aside from this ridiculous comparison, Garcia is not and will not be a Patriot in 2008 - We will stick with Moe Larry and Curly at QB this season unless an unknown Shemp comes from nowhere.

 

[emoney_33]

I know McBee is FAR FAR FAR from a decent poster but where do you come off with dumb stats like comparing Cassel to Garcia percentage??? - I may be wrong but Garcia has played in MANY MANY MANY more games than Cassel and here you are comparing percentages and you say you know football?

For instance ...

Cassel 50 attempts in career out of 100 completions would give him a 50.0 comp%

Garcia 500 attempts in career out of 1,100 completions would give him less and you give the nod in a better comp% to a raw Cassel with your juiced up bogus stats??

Aside from this ridiculous comparison, Garcia is not and will not be a Patriot in 2008 - We will stick with Moe Larry and Curly at QB this season unless an unknown Shemp comes from nowhere.

Why don't you take your Cassel-hating glasses off and read the entire conversation and post. He claimed Garcia is "accurate as hell". And claims to know exactly how good Cassel CAN be.

Garcia has hit his ceiling, Cassel hasn't. I don't know if it's the spoiled-brat attitude or the fear of the unknown why people like you just refuse to give Cassel any chance. Maybe it's just your desire to be "right" while being a contrarian to the Patriots way. Maybe it will give you satisfaction in the way it would for Borges and other mediots.

 

[emoney_33]

Just being realistic dude......unlike yourself who is rolling around in the fetal position in your footie patriots pajama's with your rose colored glasses on....saying "Cassel rules....Cassel rules"!!!!"....
I can see the situation for what it REALLY is......you pacify yourself.....that is the difference....

Claiming to be an amazing talent evaluator after seeing a QB from a TV feed in only 3+ MEANINGFUL games is ignorance or pure stupidity. You are not being realistic at all. The ONLY realistic viewpoint on Cassel from the fans is that he is an unknown and we do not know how much he will improve and grow this year. PERIOD.

 

[emoney_33]

Amusing. We are talking about how Cassell is or is not a good football QB (so far) and your winning that we bailed on your unrelated question. Let's for the sake of argument assume that guys like Chris Simms and Garcia wouldn't outshine him. He still has sucked.

"sucked" is purely subjective, and in 3 games... he has not sucked by any stretch of the imagination. He hasn't been great, but he has not sucked either.

That's my point. If you want to speculate that unemployed QBs all suck compared to Cassell that's your theory. I don't buy it. I am not even convinced that Cassell is the best QB on this team.

It really doesn't matter if you are convinced, because you have less than 1% of the data that the people making decisions have. All you know is what you see on TV feeds and read from the media, and it's known the media doesn't know SQUAT.

We are already hearing rumblings in the press. When Cassell has the ball he simply doesn't see the field that well. He doesn't find guys. That's the problem that Pete Carroll had with him. Big Arm - Moves Well - but slow reads.. So he didn't get to start in college.

Rumblings in the press heh, yea that means so much.

Didn't the owner kid say he has to improve? I think he does or he won't be QBing this team. Its a tough world out there.

There's a reason why the owner and his son do not make football decisions. Of course leave out the part where a football person believes Cassel will be improving because it doesn't fit your agenda.

If you think a veteran team built for a Super Bowl run is going to give a whole year to a guy "learning" you got a nother thing comin..

Pete

You are the one that has "a nother thing comin" It's amazing you aren't emplyed by some NFL team with your vastly superior knowledge and talent evaluation abilities with minimal and almost insignificant data.

 

[GuyClinch]

You are the one that has "a nother thing comin" It's amazing you aren't emplyed by some NFL team with your vastly superior knowledge and talent evaluation abilities with minimal and almost insignificant data.

LMAO. I never claimed vastly superior talent evaluation abilities. If we all thought like you we shouldn't even bother watching football because clearly only "expert" eyes can see what happens on the field. <g>

Dude - this guy isn't moving the football team effectively. He isn't throwing the ball down the field. It's dink - but not enough dunk. It's not exactly "insightful" this kind of insight as even run of the mill commentators and football analysts have picked up on this.

Your just hiding your head in the sand saying "BB picked him he has go to be great - he will be - he will be" BB is a great football coach. But that doesn't mean his backup is great. Remember Rohan Davey was a backup with us.

Pete

 

[emoney_33]

LMAO. I never claimed vastly superior talent evaluation abilities. If we all thought like you we shouldn't even bother watching football because clearly only "expert" eyes can see what happens on the field. <g>

Dude - this guy isn't moving the football team effectively. He isn't throwing the ball down the field. It's dink - but not enough dunk. It's not exactly "insightful" this kind of insight as even run of the mill commentators and football analysts have picked up on this.

Your just hiding your head in the sand saying "BB picked him he has go to be great - he will be - he will be" BB is a great football coach. But that doesn't mean his backup is great. Remember Rohan Davey was a backup with us.

Pete

I never said Cassel will be great, and I never said Cassel has played all-world so far. I simply state the fact, over and over, that you cannot possibly know how much he will grow this year. The other fact is he is the best option for 2008 at this current point in time. So stop thinking that because he hasn't played great that means he's incapable of playing solid or improving with playing time.

Give Cassel some time before you judge him and get some damn perspective.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I never said Cassel will be great, and I never said Cassel has played all-world so far. I simply state the fact, over and over, that you cannot possibly know how much he will grow this year. The other fact is he is the best option for 2008 at this current point in time. So stop thinking that because he hasn't played great that means he's incapable of playing solid or improving with playing time.

Give Cassel some time before you judge him and get some damn perspective.

Right on.

I was harshly critical of Cassel's play in training camp when I attended the practises. After watching the pre-season games I felt we did not have a legit #2 QB, although it was clear to me that BB would keep him and cut Gutz. Cassel's performance the 1st few games proved me wrong again. He's a legit backup - we won 2 of 3 games with our main man out. And now if he improves with game experience and weeks of practise as the starter as the coaching staff expects he could be an avg starter.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right on.

I was harshly critical of Cassel's play in training camp when I attended the practises. After watching the pre-season games I felt we did not have a legit #2 QB, although it was clear to me that BB would keep him and cut Gutz. Cassel's performance the 1st few games proved me wrong again. He's a legit backup - we won 2 of 3 games with our main man out. And now if he improves with game experience and weeks of practise as the starter as the coaching staff expects he could be an avg starter.

The problem is that below average, or even average, starter isn't good enough to shut the Chicken Littles up. They can't seem to do basic math:

32 teams = 32 starting quarterbacks
Average = about #15-16

32 teams = 32 backup quarterbacks
Average = about #47-48

These people think that a 33-64 QB is somehow a failure because he's not better than #15-16. Most of the sane fans will be happy if Cassel shows himself to be worthy of anything above 33, and thrilled if he can develop into anything above, say, #25.

Here are some bottom tier QBs For Cassel to 'compete' with, as of today:

Tavaris Jackson
Joe Flacco
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Ryan
Kyle Orton
Damon Huard
Jamarcus Russell
J.T. O'Sullivan

Hell, I'm not sure the Chicken Littles wouldn't be pissing and moaning if the team had to 'settle" for Peyton Manning.

 

[mb6592]

I never said Cassel will be great, and I never said Cassel has played all-world so far. I simply state the fact, over and over, that you cannot possibly know how much he will grow this year. The other fact is he is the best option for 2008 at this current point in time. So stop thinking that because he hasn't played great that means he's incapable of playing solid or improving with playing time.

Give Cassel some time before you judge him and get some damn perspective.

Since we all assume Brady will be our quarterback next year, we are talking about this year. There are 13 games remaining so he has played 19% of what we hope will be the last time we see him in a meaningful game - maybe forever. How many more games do you need to see of this guy before you think something drastic needs to be done?

 

[mb6592]

Right on.

I was harshly critical of Cassel's play in training camp when I attended the practises. After watching the pre-season games I felt we did not have a legit #2 QB, although it was clear to me that BB would keep him and cut Gutz. Cassel's performance the 1st few games proved me wrong again. He's a legit backup - we won 2 of 3 games with our main man out. And now if he improves with game experience and weeks of practise as the starter as the coaching staff expects he could be an avg starter.

I agree. At this point this is probably the best we can hope for. Unfortunately, we have an aging defense and Moss will be a year older next year, so our window with this current crop may be closing. I guess many are worried that this may be a throw away year (but really is 9-7ish and battling for a playoff spot really so bad?).

 

[emoney_33]

Since we all assume Brady will be our quarterback next year, we are talking about this year. There are 13 games remaining so he has played 19% of what we hope will be the last time we see him in a meaningful game - maybe forever. How many more games do you need to see of this guy before you think something drastic needs to be done?

He hasn't even played a POOR game yet. He has managed the game well and played decent. He has played better in those 3 games than ANY other available QB would have in those same 3 games for the Pats. Good teams always improve throughout the year and I have no doubt this team will along with Cassel. Cassel in January will be a much different player than the Cassel of September (Brady wasn't the same player in January 01 as he was in September 01 either).

So yes I understand he is only here for this year, but that still leaves a lot of room for improvement. We can only hope that this team as a WHOLE (including MC) is playing it's best football when it counts the most.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The problem is that below average, or even average, starter isn't good enough to shut the Chicken Littles up. They can't seem to do basic math:

32 teams = 32 starting quarterbacks
Average = about #15-16

32 teams = 32 backup quarterbacks
Average = about #47-48

These people think that a 33-64 QB is somehow a failure because he's not better than #15-16. Most of the sane fans will be happy if Cassel shows himself to be worthy of anything above 33, and thrilled if he can develop into anything above, say, #25.

Here are some bottom tier QBs For Cassel to 'compete' with, as of today:

Tavaris Jackson
Joe Flacco
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Ryan
Kyle Orton
Damon Huard
Jamarcus Russell
J.T. O'Sullivan

Hell, I'm not sure the Chicken Littles wouldn't be pissing and moaning if the team had to 'settle" for Peyton Manning.

The way he's been playing this season, his new fans would be tearing #23 Peyton a new one...I think the fans who are wailing here loudest are new age fantasy football fans who value empty stats over midline winning performances. They are the same group who wasn't entirely homeristically satisfied with Brady through 7 seasons because he only won 3 superbowls and 2 TD titles and actually under and over threw receivers even in the process of going undefeated...

Idiots in the local media have fed this beast. I remember the media poster boy for their new found objectivity mantra opining 3 years ago that if he got to assemble his dream roster in 2006 (after Brady threw a pick in that teamwide playoff meltdown in Denver) his choice for franchise QB would be Carson Palmer...

The Boston media has been fanning the flames on a backup QB controversy since that pick 6 against Miami late last season. So much so I gotta think Cassel's poise and attitude in the face of their criticism somehow has managed to rub them all the wrong way. (I think Hobbs has a similar problem with them...). They were all over Gutierrez jock and convinced that O'Connell could only have been drafted (at the tail end mind you) in the 3rd round to knock Cassel off the roster.

I think for many fans and most of the local mediots this has become a litmus test of who knows best... And sadly for that reason it will continue throughout the season. The old adage be careful what you wish for comes to mind. Almost makes you wish they could get what they think they want just so they could suffer through the realization that it wasn't nearly what they assumed it to be, but I'd rather see the team as constructed win...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The problem is that below average, or even average, starter isn't good enough to shut the Chicken Littles up. They can't seem to do basic math:

32 teams = 32 starting quarterbacks
Average = about #15-16

32 teams = 32 backup quarterbacks
Average = about #47-48

These people think that a 33-64 QB is somehow a failure because he's not better than #15-16. Most of the sane fans will be happy if Cassel shows himself to be worthy of anything above 33, and thrilled if he can develop into anything above, say, #25.

Here are some bottom tier QBs For Cassel to 'compete' with, as of today:

Tavaris Jackson
Joe Flacco
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Ryan
Kyle Orton
Damon Huard
Jamarcus Russell
J.T. O'Sullivan

Hell, I'm not sure the Chicken Littles wouldn't be pissing and moaning if the team had to 'settle" for Peyton Manning.

Great quantative and qualitative illustration of what 'average' means.

It's unrealistic for the many bandwagon fantasy football fans just arrived here to expect that Steve Young is waiting in the wings to take over as Joe Montana takes a bye year. Does 'salary cap' mean anything?

And the org's drafting of O'C with a #3 shows their continued commitment to finding a quality #2 if not heir apparent. But again the fanboys expect a raw rook to step in and run a complex O. Such expectations are an insult to the wonder that Tom HOF Brady is to this team.

 

[GuyClinch]

Tavaris Jackson
Joe Flacco
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Ryan
Kyle Orton
Damon Huard
Jamarcus Russell
J.T. O'Sullivan

Did it EVER occur to you that some of those QBs might look pretty impressive throwing to the best WR in the game? With one of the best offensive lines protecting them? With one of the best head coaches helping game plan their offense?

The Bears won 13 games IN SPITE of their QB a few years ago - not because of him. Going 2 - 1 means nothing. Its not all about the QB.

It's not "chicken littles" that are seeing things wrong - it's the boot lickers like you which try to defuse any blame and give all the credit to the QB. It's ridiculous.

The Pats had the best offense in the NFL last year - and one of the best offenses ever. Now it's one of the worst statistically. The major factor that's changed - the QB. All the lame insults and weak arguments that you guys are putting forth don't change that.

Maybe he will put it together and turn things around..but I see the same guy that couldn't move the offense in the pre-season. I see the same guy that came in and threw that interception last year.. He looks lost out there ..far too often.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did it EVER occur to you that some of those QBs might look pretty impressive throwing to the best WR in the game? With one of the best offensive lines protecting them? With one of the best head coaches helping game plan their offense?

The offensive line has not been playing anything like "one of the best".

The Bears won 13 games IN SPITE of their QB a few years ago - not because of him. Going 2 - 1 means nothing. Its not all about the QB.

It's not "chicken littles" that are seeing things wrong - it's the boot lickers like you which try to defuse any blame and give all the credit to the QB. It's ridiculous.

The Pats had the best offense in the NFL last year - and one of the best offenses ever. Now it's one of the worst statistically. The major factor that's changed - the QB. All the lame insults and weak arguments that you guys are putting forth don't change that.

Now, this is funny. The team's 2-1 start is "not all about the QB", but the "one of the worst statistically" is all about the QB. Way to try to play both sides on the argument.

Maybe he will put it together and turn things around..but I see the same guy that couldn't move the offense in the pre-season. I see the same guy that came in and threw that interception last year.. He looks lost out there ..far too often.

I see a backup quarterback trying to win games. That's the difference between us. For all your blustering, your argument falls down to "He's not Tom Brady". Well, everyone knows that. What separates the normal people from the Chicken Littles is that the normal people have the ability to reason out what that means.

Posters here such as Unoriginal and Pats1 have broken down the games a play at a time, and shown the failures of the offensive line that have made things so difficult for Cassel and the running backs. Grogan has noted the same thing in his interview/column. Belichick has made it clear that it's not just the quarterback position that's at issue, as did the 30+ points surrendered by the defense against the Dolphins. You can break your neck watching the sky for falling chunks of blue and making silly post after silly post, or you can start using your brain for something more than autonomic functions.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I agree with the premise, that Cassel has this week and more likley next week to show what he has got.. But this season is a crap shoot no matter what, we dont know anymore what will happen week to week.. I for one if Cassel does not give this o some life this week, feel we have nothing to lose with O Connel.. The Vet QB thing is just about dead, it would have been brought in weeks ago.. For now until otherwise it is Cassel's team for 2 more weeks..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You can break your neck watching the sky for falling chunks of blue and making silly post after silly post, or you can start using your brain for something more than autonomic functions.

Troll dude seems to have the so-called hind brain of the larger lizards from early history. Perhaps he'll slow down and die off as colder weather arrives...until that fortunate day, please try not to quote him, my "ignore" list has increased dramatically and he's the troll who kicked off the surge.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Im going to love the see the reaction when say O'Connel comes in, the OL contimues to be goddman awful (it has been since the SB) and he ends up on his backside with 2 INT's and 100 yards

The same people will be screaming 'Give Gutz a go, he as to play... etc etc'

This aint Madden. go read the excellent breakdown thread on the pats/fins game and see how much time Cassell actually has to execute offensive calls that arent his own

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Im going to love the see the reaction when say O'Connel comes in, the OL contimues to be goddman awful (it has been since the SB) and he ends up on his backside with 2 INT's and 100 yards

The same people will be screaming 'Give Gutz a go, he as to play... etc etc'

This aint Madden. go read the excellent breakdown thread on the pats/fins game and see how much time Cassell actually has to execute offensive calls that arent his own

You're assuming the 'Norman Einstein' crowd gets their news from reading and not from listening to Felger and his ilk. :nono:


(Still, well said) )