Last chance for Cassel verus San Francisco

[JSn]

I think that's the problem here. Alot of people on this board seem to have forgotten about Bradys 1st, and 2nd season. He wasnt Mr 50 td's back then.

In Tom's third game (second start) playing the Dolphins, he scored NO TD's and threw for a whopping 86 Yards, going 12 for 24 (50%). The Dolphins outscored the Patriots by 20 points. In four games, the Pats were 1-3.

In Matt's third game (second start) playing the Dolphins, he scored ONE TD (while not passing to one of our "premiere" receivers) and threw one INT. He threw for 131 yards, going 19 for 31 (61%). The Dolphins outscored the Patriots by 25. In three games, the Pats are 2-1.

It's fair to say Matt will never be as Good as Tommy is because Peyton Manning isn't as good as Tommy is and few players even stack up against the two of them in the history of quarterbacking. What can be said, by those numbers is that Matt Cassel 2008 is BETTER than Tom Brady 2001 as of this moment.

It's very possible if Matt was behind a Bledsoe-esque QB, Bill would be just biding time waiting to get him out there. Fact is, he's been behind Brady and that makes #2 a long way down from #1 on the depth chart.

I'm just trying to make a case for not throwing the guy out on the street. Sure, stats don't tell the whole story, but discounting them outright is just ignorant.


btw, I typed this over the course of an hour of interruptions. If I messed any of the info up, let me know.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

What can be said, by those numbers is that Matt Cassel 2008 is BETTER than Tom Brady 2001 as of this moment.

Which is why numbers do not tell the story. The 2008 Pats are a better squad of 53.

 

[stcjones]

I get it. Matt Cassel gets to start his first games since HS, learn the pro game, improve all year, and then go get a job for another team. In the meantime, we hope to make the playoffs. A team that was SB favorites three weeks ago are playoff maybes with a HS QB.

Why is it worse to get a veteran who will improve as he learns the system, and has no upside potential, but who gives us an NFL experienced QB for the playoffs? After all, Cassel's upside potential will be realized in 2009 or 2010 for some other team.

Could not agree more.....all these guys saying "You'd better get used to Matt Cassel because that is what you are going to see all this year"....better get ready to deal with a 9-7 outcome or 8-8.....because that is what is coming. I will wait and watch these same "pro-Cassel" fans on here.....implode IF (which I think is inevitable) Matt Cassel "leads" this team to a 8-8 record and no playoffs........As a matter of fact, it will be interesting to see how "the tide changes" IF Cassel loses the next few games in a row,.....will all these Cassel apologists still be saying "It's all right.....Can't blame Matt......He's our QB" etc? I doubt it.

Now, I am hoping that Matt Cassel leads this team to the playoffs.....I truly hope he proves me wrong....but since he has RARELY....(as in hardly ever) been able to offensively move this team down the field this year......and couldn't even do it in preseason.....I don't have high hopes.......

Our OL has been abysmmal......but many times they have done a good job...and Cassel is so darned slow to make a read.....or react.....that the pocket collapses.......

Lastly......our running game MUST get going.....and because the OL has been so poor.....their play must improve obviously...........and......If our D continues to play like that pile of sh## they left on the field against Miami......we are in for a long and painful season.......Like you say Miguel.....bring in a Vet to learn the O and if Matt C continues to flounder.......they could stop the bleeding......

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Which is why numbers do not tell the story. The 2008 Pats are a better squad of 53.

Are they really though? 'Cause I haven't seen it yet. They certainly have more high round draft picks on the roster, not sure they have more football players/playmakers on the field though...

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Please cease with this drivel.

For good or bad, Matt Cassell is the QB for the 2008 season. The coaches may given Oconnell some garbage time work, but that is all it will be. No different than if Cassel played in the 4th Q for Brady.

Cassell didn't lose the last game the coaches and Defense did.

For good or bad, Matt Cassell is the QB for the 2008 season. - Uh, really? Where did you get confrimation of this?

Or that O'Connell will only get "garbage time?" Have you had a heart to heart with BB on the QB situation?

The defense laid a major egg, they stunk, for certain. But Cassel managed only 131yds on 31 attempts, that stinks as well. One TD, one INT, two more that should have been, a 68.1 passer rating with 4.2yds/attempt, one TD in 4 redzone trips...let's just say Cassel did next to nothing to win the game - just like the defense.

I think he can do better, but he's given us little sign that he could put up the respectable numbers Pennington did Sunday - 17/20 226yds. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

he's given us little sign that he could put up the respectable numbers Pennington did Sunday - 17/20 226yds. I hope I'm wrong...

You cannot be serious. You EXPECT our backup QB to complete 85% of his passes? It was a record for longtime starter Pennington.

Folks need to get a grip on their expectations for the position. Brady has spoiled the fanbase.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

We need this win-no doubt.....but it's not Matt that I think we should worry about.

It's our defense-especially against this 49er running attack.

I always believe we can get a W.
I've been a die hard Pats fan my whole life. All I care about is getting to the Super Bowl this year and winning it again. It's very possible even though Tom is out.

I think we'll get out **** together and make a solid run.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Could not agree more.....all these guys saying "You'd better get used to Matt Cassel because that is what you are going to see all this year"....better get ready to deal with a 9-7 outcome or 8-8.....because that is what is coming. I will wait and watch these same "pro-Cassel" fans on here.....implode IF (which I think is inevitable) Matt Cassel "leads" this team to a 8-8 record and no playoffs........As a matter of fact, it will be interesting to see how "the tide changes" IF Cassel loses the next few games in a row,.....will all these Cassel apologists still be saying "It's all right.....Can't blame Matt......He's our QB" etc? I doubt it.

Now, I am hoping that Matt Cassel leads this team to the playoffs.....I truly hope he proves me wrong....but since he has RARELY....(as in hardly ever) been able to offensively move this team down the field this year......and couldn't even do it in preseason.....I don't have high hopes.......

Our OL has been abysmmal......but many times they have done a good job...and Cassel is so darned slow to make a read.....or react.....that the pocket collapses.......

Lastly......our running game MUST get going.....and because the OL has been so poor.....their play must improve obviously...........and......If our D continues to play like that pile of sh## they left on the field against Miami......we are in for a long and painful season.......Like you say Miguel.....bring in a Vet to learn the O and if Matt C continues to flounder.......they could stop the bleeding......

You can't even differentiate Miguel from mg on this message board and your read on QB's is beyond flawed.

You seem to have a lot of issues that come back to the OL. Why stop at replacing the QB. Let's get some veteran RB's and DLinemen and DB's in here and see if they can fix the freakin' OL.
:bricks:

 

[NormZauchin]

Mike's a good reporter... His personal opinions are another whole matter.

That said, what led you to believe Collins would be a fit here? He spent most of his career as a backup in Al Saunders version of the Air Coryall offense. That is why he made sense for the Redskins - Al was their OC trying to install his system on a team with an inexperienced 2nd round draft QB.

Todd has a CAREER 76% completion rate. He completes less than 60% of his passes and in the past threw more picks than tds. He's 36 years old and has thrown exactly 6 TD passes since 1997. I'm guessing what intrigued you was that 5 of them came in the last 4 games of last season...

BTW Collins was not available in the spring since he re-signed with the Redskins before the start of FA... Considering his 2TD/2INT performance in their first round playoff loss, his 3 year $9M contract was a bit of a stretch...

Collins was available and his price was reasonable. From the Washington Post of March 1, 2008:

Terms of the deal were not announced, but league sources said Collins, who strongly considered signing with the Jacksonville Jaguars, received a three-year, $9 million contract.

"I was flattered by Jacksonville's interest," Collins said. "They really made it a tough decision, they gave me a lot to think about, but Washington really is where I want to be. It's just the right place for me."

Sources said the contract, which includes a $3 million signing bonus, will pay Collins $1 million next season, $2 million in 2009 and $3 million in 2010. Since the signing bonus is spread over six years, Collins's salary will count $1.5 million toward the upcoming season's salary cap.

Jacksonville and one other team (not the Patriots) were the only ones to approach Collins. Given that he continues to live in the Boston area and has a wife and a baby here, a Patriots offer would likely have been attractive.

It is true that he was an Al Saunders pupil which gave him an advantage in the Redskins offense, but that hardly means he is incapable of performing under another offensive setup. I live in Washington and saw his rescue of the Redskins who were given up for dead when Campbell went down. In a last quarter of the season, under a lot of pressure, Collins had three games with QB ratings in the 90s. The Redskins needed to win every game, and under Collins, they did. As unimpressive as Collins' resume was before last season, it still was a damn sight better than Cassell's, the only quarterback in the history of the NFL to never win a game in college.

 

[Deus Irae]

Collins was available and his price was reasonable. From the Washington Post of March 1, 2008:

Terms of the deal were not announced, but league sources said Collins, who strongly considered signing with the Jacksonville Jaguars, received a three-year, $9 million contract.

"I was flattered by Jacksonville's interest," Collins said. "They really made it a tough decision, they gave me a lot to think about, but Washington really is where I want to be. It's just the right place for me."

Sources said the contract, which includes a $3 million signing bonus, will pay Collins $1 million next season, $2 million in 2009 and $3 million in 2010. Since the signing bonus is spread over six years, Collins's salary will count $1.5 million toward the upcoming season's salary cap.

Jacksonville and one other team (not the Patriots) were the only ones to approach Collins. Given that he continues to live in the Boston area and has a wife and a baby here, a Patriots offer would likely have been attractive.

It is true that he was an Al Saunders pupil which gave him an advantage in the Redskins offense, but that hardly means he is incapable of performing under another offensive setup. I live in Washington and saw his rescue of the Redskins who were given up for dead when Campbell went down. In a last quarter of the season, under a lot of pressure, Collins had three games with QB ratings in the 90s. The Redskins needed to win every game, and under Collins, they did. As unimpressive as Collins' resume was before last season, it still was a damn sight better than Cassell's, the only quarterback in the history of the NFL to never win a game in college.

I'll take "Backup to Tom Brady for 3+ seasons" over Todd Collins' resume, 7 days a week, and especially on Sundays, when it comes to choosing a QB for the Patriots.

 

[emoney_33]

Could not agree more.....all these guys saying "You'd better get used to Matt Cassel because that is what you are going to see all this year"....better get ready to deal with a 9-7 outcome or 8-8.....because that is what is coming. I will wait and watch these same "pro-Cassel" fans on here.....implode IF (which I think is inevitable) Matt Cassel "leads" this team to a 8-8 record and no playoffs........As a matter of fact, it will be interesting to see how "the tide changes" IF Cassel loses the next few games in a row,.....will all these Cassel apologists still be saying "It's all right.....Can't blame Matt......He's our QB" etc? I doubt it.

Now, I am hoping that Matt Cassel leads this team to the playoffs.....I truly hope he proves me wrong....but since he has RARELY....(as in hardly ever) been able to offensively move this team down the field this year......and couldn't even do it in preseason.....I don't have high hopes.......

Our OL has been abysmmal......but many times they have done a good job...and Cassel is so darned slow to make a read.....or react.....that the pocket collapses.......

Lastly......our running game MUST get going.....and because the OL has been so poor.....their play must improve obviously...........and......If our D continues to play like that pile of sh## they left on the field against Miami......we are in for a long and painful season.......Like you say Miguel.....bring in a Vet to learn the O and if Matt C continues to flounder.......they could stop the bleeding......

It's sad that you attempt to pass yourself off as a Patriots fan. Just pitiful.

 

[NormZauchin]

I'll take "Backup to Tom Brady for 3+ seasons" over Todd Collins' resume, 7 days a week, and especially on Sundays, when it comes to choosing a QB for the Patriots.

It's interesting that you insert "Tom Brady" into your sentence as if somehow being a backup to a future Hall of Famer magically makes Mr. No Wins In His Entire College Career a great? good? passable? quarterback in the NFL. Would you take someone being a "backup to Tom Brady" for 3 seasons? If so then get on the phone to Belichick and tell him to sign Rohan Davey.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's interesting that you insert "Tom Brady" into your sentence as if somehow being a backup to a future Hall of Famer magically makes Mr. No Wins In His Entire College Career a great? good? passable? quarterback in the NFL. Would you take someone being a "backup to Tom Brady" for 3 seasons? If so then get on the phone to Belichick and tell him to sign Rohan Davey.

Why would I do that? Rohan doesn't fit my stated criteria. Look, I understand that you get all misty eyed over Collins, but Collins is a career backup after one serious attempt starting for the Bills. Last season's 3 starts were his first since 1997. People like you prefer failure to the unknown. I generally prefer the unknown to failure.

As for the "Tom Brady" reference, I think it's clear, or at least should be, that my point about that resume was more to point out the insufficiency of Collins' resume than to pump up Cassel's.

 

[emoney_33]

Why would I do that? Rohan doesn't fit my stated criteria. Look, I understand that you get all misty eyed over Collins, but Collins is a career backup after one serious attempt starting for the Bills. Last season's 3 starts were his first since 1997. People like you prefer failure to the unknown. I generally prefer the unknown to failure.

As for the "Tom Brady" reference, I think it's clear, or at least should be, that my point about that resume was more to point out the insufficiency of Collins' resume than to pump up Cassel's.

It's trully amazing how the "grass is always greener" saying fits so many posters here perfectly. I just will never understand why SO MANY people want proven failures with 0 experience in the patriots system to QB this team.

 

[BPF]

It's trully amazing how the "grass is always greener" saying fits so many posters here perfectly. I just will never understand why SO MANY people want proven failures with 0 experience in the patriots system to QB this team.

Good point. If Brett Favre with his great skill set and his 16+ yrs experience is strugling in a new offensive system I doubt any other much less talented veteran would do well here, especially one available at this point. Everyone is criticizing the Jets for their conservative approach on offense but that's what happens when you put a guy in there with zero experience in your system, you need to simplify the offense.

 

[BPF]

I really like the Krafts, including Jonathan, and I'm probably taking this out of context, but the day that fortunate sperm Jonathan Kraft dictates what happens on the FOOTBALL field is the day this franchise starts down the tubes.

It didn't sound as if it was said that way, like he will mandate it happens. It was said matter of factly in the conversation. I could hear Jonathan perfectly clear because he has a really loud booming voice. Cesario wasn't as clear and spoke in softer tone.

 

[JSn]

It's interesting that you insert "Tom Brady" into your sentence as if somehow being a backup to a future Hall of Famer magically makes Mr. No Wins In His Entire College Career a great? good? passable? quarterback in the NFL. Would you take someone being a "backup to Tom Brady" for 3 seasons? If so then get on the phone to Belichick and tell him to sign Rohan Davey.

Edwards 3-0

Cassel 2-1

Favre 1-2

Penny 1-2


Yep. Second place in the division with the worst QB in the league. I can live with that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Collins was available and his price was reasonable. From the Washington Post of March 1, 2008:

Terms of the deal were not announced, but league sources said Collins, who strongly considered signing with the Jacksonville Jaguars, received a three-year, $9 million contract.

"I was flattered by Jacksonville's interest," Collins said. "They really made it a tough decision, they gave me a lot to think about, but Washington really is where I want to be. It's just the right place for me."

Sources said the contract, which includes a $3 million signing bonus, will pay Collins $1 million next season, $2 million in 2009 and $3 million in 2010. Since the signing bonus is spread over six years, Collins's salary will count $1.5 million toward the upcoming season's salary cap.

Jacksonville and one other team (not the Patriots) were the only ones to approach Collins. Given that he continues to live in the Boston area and has a wife and a baby here, a Patriots offer would likely have been attractive.

It is true that he was an Al Saunders pupil which gave him an advantage in the Redskins offense, but that hardly means he is incapable of performing under another offensive setup. I live in Washington and saw his rescue of the Redskins who were given up for dead when Campbell went down. In a last quarter of the season, under a lot of pressure, Collins had three games with QB ratings in the 90s. The Redskins needed to win every game, and under Collins, they did. As unimpressive as Collins' resume was before last season, it still was a damn sight better than Cassell's, the only quarterback in the history of the NFL to never win a game in college.

He re-signed on the first day of FA. With a team uncertain about their latest in a series of developmental franchise QB's...We were not paying that player $3M in signing bonus and a million more in 2008 salary. Jacksonville likely wasn't close to considering him for that $$ either within a week of extending Garrard for 6/$60M with $18M guaranteed... His 2009 cap hit will be $3M or a $3M dead cap hit. His deal is similar to Garcia's or Warner's money absent the incentives and adjusted for the fact he's not in thier league... That is aging but quite possibly the starter money, not veteran backup money. You do that when you have no franchise QB or a rookie you don't want to expose or already have concerns about - not to back up a remarkably durable HOF'er.

 

[JSn]

Which is why numbers do not tell the story. The 2008 Pats are a better squad of 53.

Yes. In Madden.

Seriously, look at our margin of loss on that last game.
If the team is making Cassel look better than he really is, they have an irritatingly stealthy way of doing it.

 

[GuyClinch]

I think that's the problem here. Alot of people on this board seem to have forgotten about Bradys 1st, and 2nd season. He wasnt Mr 50 td's back then.

No. The problem is people like you have forgotten that he didn't have Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to.

As another poster in his sorry attempt to defend Cassell alluded to - Brady's numbers jumped through the rough with those two guys catching balls.

As one writer put it Matt Cassell was given the keys to a Ferrari. So far he has driven that Ferrari straight into a brick wall. We have half the so called "experts" on this thread telling us that OMG it's the line that sucks. Or Randy Moss is dogging it. <g> Or the ever insightful OMG Your a moron. LMAO. What a come back..

What's more likely the entire Patriots offense - which was the best in history suddenly sucks or Matt Cassell sucks. <g> It HAS to be one of the other. Our offense has been bad. Someone is screwing up. It's the QB.

Pete