Josh McDaniels Handicapped This Patriots Team

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't usually reply to threads without even bothering to read beyond the title, but this thread title is an insult to intelligence. Josh McDaniels is the least of this teams offensive problems. We have a mostly JAG WR corps who can't consistently make the easy catches, a HOF QB aho has to be frustrated beyond reason after being asked to assimilate several of them into an established offense on the fly in a season because god forbid we overpay for either of the two guys he won 2 Superbowls with, whose featured RB as a feature back was unfortunately a one season and done shadow of his former self again and was coupled with a talented rookie is prone to dancing behind a line ill equipped to multi task even before he hit the wall a month ago which included bouts of ball security-itis, his best TE is primarily a blocker and his most talented TE remains an enigma, and an aging core defense was finally bent to the point it broke on the verge of a 4th trip to a Superbowl just 6 seasons.

Some of you need to come to grips with the reality that coaches coach but players play, and if you don't have enough of them or the ones you have are not sufficiently talented or durable no system will just win because you have chosen to believe it and they and we always should. Sometimes it's on the players and the people who assembled them - and our young OC, much like his QB, did the best he could under ridiculous working conditions.

 

[maverick4]

I don't usually reply to threads without even bothering to read beyond the title, but this thread title is an insult to intelligence. Josh McDaniels is the least of this teams offensive problems. We have a mostly JAG WR corps who can't consistently make the easy catches, a HOF QB aho has to be frustrated beyond reason after being asked to assimilate several of them into an established offense on the fly in a season because god forbid we overpay for either of the two guys he won 2 Superbowls with, whose featured RB as a feature back was unfortunately a one season and done shadow of his former self again and was coupled with a talented rookie is prone to dancing behind a line ill equipped to multi task even before he hit the wall a month ago which included bouts of ball security-itis, his best TE is primarily a blocker and his most talented TE remains an enigma, and an aging core defense was finally bent to the point it broke on the verge of a 4th trip to a Superbowl just 6 seasons.

Some of you need to come to grips with the reality that coaches coach but players play, and if you don't have enough of them or the ones you have are not sufficiently talented or durable no system will just win because you have chosen to believe it and they and we always should. Sometimes it's on the players and the people who assembled them - and our young OC, much like his QB, did the best he could under ridiculous working conditions.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

You McDaniels apologizers are hilarious. One minute you trumpet his various accomplishments by rattling off offensive stats, and another minute you have a long list of excuses for his failures. This guy has done NOTHING to warrant such apologizing.

And before you put me in NEM's camp, I waited two years and watched this guy carefully before making any definitive conclusions.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Yeah, and McDaniels was personally responsible for giving up 38 points. Everyone needs to stop putting the blame on the defense. It was ALL MCDANIELS!!!!! Peyton Manning was able to pick up 20 yards a pass because of McDaniels (I actually heard a caller say that on WEEI so I can't take credit for that).

McDaniels didn't call a great game, but we scored 27 points on offense. That should be enough to win any game. It was the 38 points allowed on defense that handicapped this team.

As for the 2006 Patriots having the most talent of any Belichick team, this team wasn't even close. The lack of depth at LB and safety was a key reason we lost the game last night. In the past we could have overcome that. Our WRs are not as good as they were in 2003 and 2004. Our LBs weren't as good as 2003 and 2004. Our secondary isn't as good as 2003. I think our o-line is no better than the o-line of 2004.

No, I'm not saying that. I definitely agree the defense just snapped and the Colts were the better team, but McDaniels is a bit erratic in his playcalling...

There doesn't seem to be any real flow to it...

It's like he looks at the sheet and just closes his eyes and picks a play...

 

[maverick4]

No, I'm not saying that. I definitely agree the defense just snapped and the Colts were the better team, but McDaniels is a bit erratic in his playcalling...

There doesn't seem to be any real flow to it...

It's like he looks at the sheet and just closes his eyes and picks a play...

Right. This thread is more about McDaniels' general cluelessness as opposed to specifically this past game (although the Colts game has good examples).

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, this thread is just going on too long and none of us are going to sway each other in the slightest. I guess we all just have to agree to disagree. I don't think me rehashing my same arguements is adding anymore to the thread at this point so I am out.

 

[maverick4]

Rob, you make some good points and I'm glad to hear your perspective. I may be channeling my anger onto McDaniels, yes, but for the most part I do not believe it is unwarranted or done for no reason whatsoever.

 

[skri65]

Here are some startling numbers for Josh and his asinine offensive play calling, in the second half. No womder the defense got tired out.

3........................1:23
5........................2:35
3:.......................2:18
6........................2:44
5........................1:42
3........................1:05
4........................0:16


4 of those 7 drives began near midfield or in Indy territory. PITIFUL, ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL BY MCDANIELS...

The first numbers are how many plays we ran on each offensive series.

Note that the maximum was 6....on ONE posession.

The second is that time taken off the clock to run those series of plays.

There is no defense that can continually perform at a high level when the offense does not hold up their half of the bargain..

McDaniels is, without a doubt, the weakest link on this team, and if he is given the gate, IMMEDIATELY, i could care less.

He is why we lost, plain and simple.

Were there other factors? Yes, of course, but McDaniels was the main cause for defeat.

He had opportunity after opportunity to take control of the game, from late in the 2nd quarter until the end, and he failed, miserably.

NEM,

I DON'T GET IT. How can you assume that an offense's success (or lack thereof) is COMPLETELY dependent on the coordinator and not, at least partially, on the players?

 

[skri65]

Ok, this thread is just going on too long and none of us are going to sway each other in the slightest. I guess we all just have to agree to disagree. I don't think me rehashing my same arguements is adding anymore to the thread at this point so I am out.

Forgive my previous post...did not finish the thread so I didn't know this one has been, by all intensive purposes, closed.

 

[AzPatsFan]

McDaniels is a novice. He runs Corey Dillon outside, Maroney inside, and keeps Faulk on the bench against the Colts. How does that make any sense?

With a 21-13 lead to start the offense in the 2nd half, McDaniels ran a total of 5 times the entire half. FIVE TIMES. It was also his fault for the '12 men in the huddle' penalty, as well as not generating a single first down late in the 4th quarter when it could have sealed the game. We lost 2nd half time of possession by a factor of 4:1. Finally, why put Heath Evans in the backfield on our final drive, instead of Faulk or Maroney? Idiocy.

The 2006 Patriots had the best collective offense, defense, and special teams of any Belichick team. However, they were handicapped by an offensive coordinator who was in over his head against much more experienced and intelligent opposing coaches. With our talent, McDaniels handicapped this team to only 12 wins this year, and made many 'rookie' mistakes as an offensive coordinator.

If I feel mad enough later, I may go back game-by-game and point out his many mistakes that occurred on an almost weekly basis.

Maverick,

Did you know that Kevin went down with injury during the game? Maroney was ineffective as a runner and the rookie's pass catching is no where as good as Heath Evans is for a RB.

Dillon's great run by the way was outside the Right Tackle, with a great lead block by Heath Evans. You were saying something about running Dillon outside?

Want to make any apologies? Or have you been listening and become a NEM disciple, so you can hate all OCs. You'll be joiniing a select company. We know that NEM hated Josh McDaniels; and Charlie Weis before him; and Earnie Zampese before him; and I don't recall who NEM ragged on before Earnie Z.

Three Ocs who have 7 SB victories between them, and a newcomer who put up 34 points in the AFC Championship game with a walking wounded roster, in his first year as an OC?

I'm sure he should have put in an injured Faulk. Idiocy? Were you referring to his or yours? Somebody, sure must be an idiot...

 

[stcjones]

McDaniels is a novice. He runs Corey Dillon outside, Maroney inside, and keeps Faulk on the bench against the Colts. How does that make any sense?

With a 21-13 lead to start the offense in the 2nd half, McDaniels ran a total of 5 times the entire half. FIVE TIMES. It was also his fault for the '12 men in the huddle' penalty, as well as not generating a single first down late in the 4th quarter when it could have sealed the game. We lost 2nd half time of possession by a factor of 4:1. Finally, why put Heath Evans in the backfield on our final drive, instead of Faulk or Maroney? Idiocy.

The 2006 Patriots had the best collective offense, defense, and special teams of any Belichick team. However, they were handicapped by an offensive coordinator who was in over his head against much more experienced and intelligent opposing coaches. With our talent, McDaniels handicapped this team to only 12 wins this year, and made many 'rookie' mistakes as an offensive coordinator.

If I feel mad enough later, I may go back game-by-game and point out his many mistakes that occurred on an almost weekly basis.

MCdaniels absolutely SUCKS........Worst offensive coordinating playcalling I have seen in quite some time in NE. Someone (probably jokingly) stated Oakland was looking at McDaniel....PLEASE...TAKE HIM....I wouldn't let him even carry the equipment here in NE next year........Totally horrid playcalling by him.....again!

 

[stcjones]

Yeah, and McDaniels was personally responsible for giving up 38 points. Everyone needs to stop putting the blame on the defense. It was ALL MCDANIELS!!!!! Peyton Manning was able to pick up 20 yards a pass because of McDaniels (I actually heard a caller say that on WEEI so I can't take credit for that).

McDaniels didn't call a great game, but we scored 27 points on offense. That should be enough to win any game. It was the 38 points allowed on defense that handicapped this team.

As for the 2006 Patriots having the most talent of any Belichick team, this team wasn't even close. The lack of depth at LB and safety was a key reason we lost the game last night. In the past we could have overcome that. Our WRs are not as good as they were in 2003 and 2004. Our LBs weren't as good as 2003 and 2004. Our secondary isn't as good as 2003. I think our o-line is no better than the o-line of 2004.

Well...McDaniels was one component of this loss.....Pees playing a soft D in the second half led to the other major component of the loss. We were shutting them down completely in the first have by putting our corners right up on them....then all of a sudden late in the first half, Pees decides to go with a zone....which carried on into the 3rd where the wheels fell off........Bad OC/DC in this game........

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

how many plays did cory dillon actully play in the 2nd half? clock killing where'd ya go?

 

[stcjones]

You're right. He could not possibly have learned anything after his first full season as the OC. He will never improve. We should take him out back and burry him under the practice field.

Well we certainly don't need to waste several more years of talent while he "learns the trade". Puhleese....this guy needs to go.....

 

[stcjones]

When the season started, I gave McD a break because of all the new players on offense. I used to chuckle to myself and roll my eyes when I would read the weekly NEM McD flame-fest. Then, as the season wore on, I slowly started to come around. I know Charlie Weis was flamed on these boards during his tenure but he's clearly a better O-Coordinator than McD.

One of the reasons we lost the first frickin' Colts game was because we abandoned the run in the second half! Running only 5 times in the second half is inexcusable. We needed long, sustained drives to rest the defense and to run time off the clock. That never happened because the Pats got away from what was working and got into a shooting match with a better offensive unit.

The (former) hallmark of the Pats O was slow, methodical drives that grind the opposing D to dust and usually results in points. I guess that philosophy left when Charlie did. I say, cut McD and get someone who can get the O into that mind-set again. It's a proven winner.

'"Charlie Weis was flamed on these boards during his tenure but he's clearly a better O-Coordinator than McD."

Well yeah.....of course.....Weis is a great offensive mind....McDaniels to this point...is not

 

[maverick4]

Az, let me give you an example. Against the Colts McDaniels ran Dillon outside, Maroney inside, and Faulk on the bench, and some people here have been supporting him, saying he wanted to 'mix it up' and not be predictable. Well, instead of being ******ed and putting players where they don't excel, how about instead running Dillon inside, and if they overplay the inside run, run play-action? Run Maroney outside, and if they overplay, run a fake sweep with Maroney who reverses to a wide receiver? Give Faulk a screen, and if they overplay, run a fake to Faulk and throw it over the Graham on the other side?

The point is, there is an intelligent way to do things to take advantage of an opponent's expectations, and Josh McDaniels' solutions are almost childish. And no, I am not in the NEM school of hate all coordinators. I have been closely watching McDaniels for 2 years now and this is not a conclusion based on only a few games.

 

[stcjones]

BB should stop listening to his IPOD and pay attention to the game, oh I forgot he listens in on everything and ultimately is responsible.

Would we all think his play calling was brilliant if Caldwell did not drop the pass or if Brady saw Evans and we won?? To blame an O coordinator, in a team sport begs the issue and is against everything we know about the Patriots.

The D could not stop the Colts, if they did and we could have then continued in our game plan things would have been different. We will never know, but I suspect that so many of our guys were gassed because they were dehydrated because of the flu.

To blame McDaniels for this loss, is akin to blaming Mike Woicjik for Rodney Harrisons broken sholder blade and sprained ACL. It does not follow, coaches coach and players execute, bottom line we did not execute and control the game after we were up 21-3. Our D could not get off the field, and when the O came in the Indy D was so fresh and fired up we could not do much.

"The D could not stop the Colts, if they did and we could have then continued in our game plan things would have been different"

Correct...they were gassed...that is why BB/MCd needed to make some kind of playcalling adjustments to GET THE D some rest......instead they abandon the run and our D gets no rest break...and they get torched......how you could even remotely NOT RUN THE BALL TO TAKE SOME TIME OFF THE CLOCK...is beyond me.....one man's opinion.....

 

[stcjones]

Here are some startling numbers for Josh and his asinine offensive play calling, in the second half. No womder the defense got tired out.

3........................1:23
5........................2:35
3:.......................2:18
6........................2:44
5........................1:42
3........................1:05
4........................0:16


4 of those 7 drives began near midfield or in Indy territory. PITIFUL, ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL BY MCDANIELS...

The first numbers are how many plays we ran on each offensive series.

Note that the maximum was 6....on ONE posession.

The second is that time taken off the clock to run those series of plays.

There is no defense that can continually perform at a high level when the offense does not hold up their half of the bargain..

McDaniels is, without a doubt, the weakest link on this team, and if he is given the gate, IMMEDIATELY, i could care less.

He is why we lost, plain and simple.

Were there other factors? Yes, of course, but McDaniels was the main cause for defeat.

He had opportunity after opportunity to take control of the game, from late in the 2nd quarter until the end, and he failed, miserably.

thanks for the stats...I am absolutely sick to my stomach reading these over.....Had he simply stuck with the run in the 4th we could have pulled this one out...sad sad sad....I hope BB does the right thing...

 

[stcjones]

People can either make excuses, or simply get the job done. We had an average to below-average running back for 4 years, but still managed to win a few championships. Also, last I checked, our receivers going into the Colts game were leaders in playoff yards and receptions...

Lack of receivers doesn't explain why we completely abandoned the run (aside from a few crappy draw plays), and sat Faulk on the bench for most of the game. Lack of receivers doesn't explain why we had 12 men in a huddle, why Heath Evans was our RB on the final drive, and why we couldn't generate a single first down after our defense made a heroic stop near the end of the game.

good point about A. Smith....I always bring this point up to my friends that are doofin fans when they start spouting on about why Dan Marino is the greatest of all time and never won the big one....because he NEVER had a RB......puh-leese......I need to go back and find the stats of Marino's running backs and see if they were less than 3.0 avg yrds per carry

 

[stcjones]

Patsnut, why do you have such blind faith in McDaniels, or a refusal to deal with reality? To call this thread 'dumb ass' reveals your inability to see the symptoms indicative of a poor offensive coordinator. Additionally, your post comes across as crass and in poor taste, especially for a 'mod'.

Amen...time to take off them rose colored glasses son......

 

[stcjones]

If NEM doesn't then I may do it (although I don't have a lot of time).

I feel that Brady is in the prime of his career, that we have some aging defensive players, and that this team deserves the smartest, most clever coordinators in the game, not a novice who is still learning on the job and wasting good opportunities.

great points....